Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs_R_Us]

Lukas Eagleton - (2025 Draft) Jaxon Cooney - (2025 Draft) Oliver Grant - (2025 Draft) Jarvis Murphy - (2025 Draft) Cohen Lake - (2025 Draft) Sonny Garlick - (2025 Draft)

Are any of these currently standing out in their competitions?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Is Bob’s son in the FS Academy? I thought he didn’t even play footy?


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Same here. From the few photos I've seen he doesn't seem like a sporty type, but I could be wrong

 

[weltschmerz]

Are any of these currently standing out in their competitions?

Only Cooney.

 

[bresker]

Didn’t Lake change his name because he got together with a single mum and ‘adopted’ her kid (or whatever the term is.) So is the eldest child his actual genetic offspring ?

 

[weltschmerz]

Didn’t Lake change his name because he got together with a single mum and ‘adopted’ her kid (or whatever the term is.) So is the eldest child his actual genetic offspring ?

Bailee is his stepson, Cohen is his bio son.

 

[Hobdog]

Lake changed his surname because there were no more males in the family to continue the surname into the future.


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[Munnez]

Some higher dogs people were super impressed with Berry ability to shut down Bont

I don't see us having the full cash for him but guessing they might target a similar style player

Trade out Caleb and whatever else is required someone who can tag and find the pill going the other would be invaluable to our set up.
Could really change our midfield dynamic to contain an opposition ball winner, but totally lose input from that would add a lot to our week to week set up.
Maybe it wouldn't have to be a total grind every week to win. If we can stop the opposition main mid getting off the chain

 

[Munnez]

They’d want something else back

And they can get stuffed can't pay a player top shelf then want them on the cheap. 16 and future 1st is really bare bones we are getting shafted again. Would hope Hawks if he is to go see how it plays out in the off season

 

[_Mike_]

Bevo and the MC continuing to experiment by playing players out of position for years has something to do with CD falling off the cliff. Don’t blame him for his drop in confidence

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If we're comparing accumulated Brownlow votes of rucks:

English: 25 career votes

Recent all-Australians:
Gawn: 98 votes
Blicavs: 15 votes
Naitanui: 33 votes
Grundy: 65 votes
Ryder: 27 votes
Goldstein: 69 votes

Players who rucked in 2023:
Witts: 10 votes
O'Brien 17 votes
McInerney: 1 vote
Darcy: 15 votes
Nankervis: 12 votes
Marshall: 25 votes
Hickey: 5 votes
Stanley: 4 votes.

People have lost the plot a bit. Is there greater variety within a season for English playing good or bad games? Probably.
Is English having a worse season than last year? Absolutely, but that's likely due to regression to the mean and unrealistic expectations to back up an AA season. Nobody predicted an AA season out of him last year, so people probably would have been more accepting of his 2024 season so far, in the 22-23 off season.

English has already proved to have played better so far in his career than many established, good rucks that have found ways to play 100, 150+ 200+ career games. This idea that we should throw that all out because we like the big muscles of some VFL ruck is just ridiculous.

English has played a big part since 2019 - as proven by his brownlow votes - in winning more games than we've lost in this five-six year window, and I have no doubt that we would have lost more games and will lose more in the future (even with additional salary cap room) by throwing him out with whatever VFL ruck like the fact that they can shove rucks.

 

[ossie_21]

Would 16 and a future cats first be enough?


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They’d want something else back

2 late first rounders would be disgusting if we had to give anything more than a 3rd back

 

[The Inbetweener]

2 late first rounders would be disgusting if we had to give anything more than a 3rd back

Agree. Brisbane wanted something back though when they have us 15 and 21 for Dunkley.

 

[dogwatch]

If we're comparing accumulated Brownlow votes of rucks:

English: 25 career votes

Recent all-Australians:
Gawn: 98 votes
Blicavs: 15 votes
Naitanui: 33 votes
Grundy: 65 votes
Ryder: 27 votes
Goldstein: 69 votes

Players who rucked in 2023:
Witts: 10 votes
O'Brien 17 votes
McInerney: 1 vote
Darcy: 15 votes
Nankervis: 12 votes
Marshall: 25 votes
Hickey: 5 votes
Stanley: 4 votes.

People have lost the plot a bit. Is there greater variety within a season for English playing good or bad games? Probably.
Is English having a worse season than last year? Absolutely, but that's likely due to regression to the mean and unrealistic expectations to back up an AA season. Nobody predicted an AA season out of him last year, so people probably would have been more accepting of his 2024 season so far, in the 22-23 off season.

English has already proved to have played better so far in his career than many established, good rucks that have found ways to play 100, 150+ 200+ career games. This idea that we should throw that all out because we like the big muscles of some VFL ruck is just ridiculous.

English has played a big part since 2019 - as proven by his brownlow votes - in winning more games than we've lost in this five-six year window, and I have no doubt that we would have lost more games and will lose more in the future (even with additional salary cap room) by throwing him out with whatever VFL ruck like the fact that they can shove rucks.

So leaving aside the questionable rhetoric, it looks like we are in agreement that he’s a handy ruckman who is much better around the ground than he is at CBs and stoppages.

Correct?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

So leaving aside the questionable rhetoric, it looks like we are in agreement that he’s a handy ruckman who is much better around the ground than he is at CBs and stoppages.

Correct?

Yes, creating net overall value that still probably has him in the best 6-8 rucks in the league.

Which makes all the discussion of alternate options ridiculous.

 

[geoffjennings79]

So leaving aside the questionable rhetoric

You're a better man than me dw, I only read as far as "people have lost the plot".

 

[dogwatch]

You're a better man than me dw, I only read as far as "people have lost the plot".

We all support the same team. We’re just finessing around the edges.

 

[Unorth]

Tim can get his $800k x 5, it does say a lot that the market has significantly cooled on him.

However these supposed demands that he get the bulk of the ruck work are funny considering how bad he is at it.

If we give him that much money it should be with the understanding that Darcy will get given increasing ruck duties as time goes on. Tim can be valuable as a forward - we consistently played our best footy under Bevo with Stef Martin playing, after all.

 

[Next Waiting]

If we're comparing accumulated Brownlow votes of rucks:

English: 25 career votes

Recent all-Australians:
Gawn: 98 votes
Blicavs: 15 votes
Naitanui: 33 votes
Grundy: 65 votes
Ryder: 27 votes
Goldstein: 69 votes

Players who rucked in 2023:
Witts: 10 votes
O'Brien 17 votes
McInerney: 1 vote
Darcy: 15 votes
Nankervis: 12 votes
Marshall: 25 votes
Hickey: 5 votes
Stanley: 4 votes.

People have lost the plot a bit. Is there greater variety within a season for English playing good or bad games? Probably.
Is English having a worse season than last year? Absolutely, but that's likely due to regression to the mean and unrealistic expectations to back up an AA season. Nobody predicted an AA season out of him last year, so people probably would have been more accepting of his 2024 season so far, in the 22-23 off season.

English has already proved to have played better so far in his career than many established, good rucks that have found ways to play 100, 150+ 200+ career games. This idea that we should throw that all out because we like the big muscles of some VFL ruck is just ridiculous.

English has played a big part since 2019 - as proven by his brownlow votes - in winning more games than we've lost in this five-six year window, and I have no doubt that we would have lost more games and will lose more in the future (even with additional salary cap room) by throwing him out with whatever VFL ruck like the fact that they can shove rucks.

So now I'm a little curious.

If I we're to mount an argument for any player, one way or another, Brownlow votes and All Australian are the 2 I would discount, straight off the bat.

Coaches' votes and Club B&F....little alse. Stats are stats but I'm in no way convinced that stats on Brownlow votes or AA hold any value for anyone other than network commentatoes.

 

[dogwatch]

Tim can get his $800k x 5, it does say a lot that the market has significantly cooled on him.

However these supposed demands that he get the bulk of the ruck work are funny considering how bad he is at it.

If we give him that much money it should be with the understanding that Darcy will get given increasing ruck duties as time goes on. Tim can be valuable as a forward - we consistently played our best footy under Bevo with Stef Martin playing, after all.

We have two unicorns, English and Darcy. Why can't we come up with a unique game plan that capitalises on their strengths and covers for their weaknesses*, rather than try to shoe-horn them into alternating between traditional ruck and ruck-forward roles?

Don't ask me what that plan would be. I'm not getting paid the big bucks. But if it's true Bevo wants to be the smartest man in the room this seems like a great opportunity to prove it.



* This assumes that Darcy has a weakness. None detected so far.

 

[bigdog54]

If we're comparing accumulated Brownlow votes of rucks:

English: 25 career votes

Recent all-Australians:
Gawn: 98 votes
Blicavs: 15 votes
Naitanui: 33 votes
Grundy: 65 votes
Ryder: 27 votes
Goldstein: 69 votes

Players who rucked in 2023:
Witts: 10 votes
O'Brien 17 votes
McInerney: 1 vote
Darcy: 15 votes
Nankervis: 12 votes
Marshall: 25 votes
Hickey: 5 votes
Stanley: 4 votes.

People have lost the plot a bit. Is there greater variety within a season for English playing good or bad games? Probably.
Is English having a worse season than last year? Absolutely, but that's likely due to regression to the mean and unrealistic expectations to back up an AA season. Nobody predicted an AA season out of him last year, so people probably would have been more accepting of his 2024 season so far, in the 22-23 off season.

English has already proved to have played better so far in his career than many established, good rucks that have found ways to play 100, 150+ 200+ career games. This idea that we should throw that all out because we like the big muscles of some VFL ruck is just ridiculous.

English has played a big part since 2019 - as proven by his brownlow votes - in winning more games than we've lost in this five-six year window, and I have no doubt that we would have lost more games and will lose more in the future (even with additional salary cap room) by throwing him out with whatever VFL ruck like the fact that they can shove rucks.

I never said Tim wasn't a decent player, just not a good ruckman. He's had some good patches over the last couple of years and does have a unique skill set. Despite being the AA ruckman last year he was still made to look second rate by inferior opponents on several occasions. This year has been even worse.

Anyway, my point is that we can afford to lose him and get a decent pick in return which is important for an 'evolving' team without a first round pick.

 

[weltschmerz]

We have two unicorns, English and Darcy. Why can't we come up with a unique game plan that capitalises on their strengths and covers for their weaknesses*, rather than try to shoe-horn them into alternating between traditional ruck and ruck-forward roles?

Don't ask me what that plan would be. I'm not getting paid the big bucks. But if it's true Bevo wants to be the smartest man in the room this seems like a great opportunity to prove it.



* This assumes that Darcy has a weakness. None detected so far.

Simple split of centre bounces, English dropping behind the ball to intercept and take back half ruck contests, Darcy doing the forward half rucking would suit them well. I like English as a loose man in defense.

 

[glenashley]

I don't think it'll happen but I'd be happy for English to sign on elsewhere. Hes just not the ruckman we thought he'd be. Assuming we finish about where we are now it would net us pick 8-9. Would need to find a cheapish replacement for this to work though.

Problem is, that if he's not looking like getting a big contract, compo pick won't be 1st rounder, maybe end of first at best??

 

[Mojorisin]

Problem is, that if he's not looking like getting a big contract, compo pick won't be 1st rounder, maybe end of first at best??

He won't leave for less then a million so if he does go it will be Band 1.

 

[dogwatch]

Simple split of centre bounces, English dropping behind the ball to intercept and take back half ruck contests, Darcy doing the forward half rucking would suit them well. I like English as a loose man in defense.

That works ... as long as the opposition aren't taking it straight out the front when Tim takes the centre bounces, and we've seen that quite a few times, especially against Melbourne. If they do that Tim won't be in defence to take the intercept mark.

 

[adogsfan5]

Bevo and the MC continuing to experiment by playing players out of position for years has something to do with CD falling off the cliff. Don’t blame him for his drop in confidence

I’m struggling to see how Daniel would be a worse option than Bramble at half back.