Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs Rule]

Yeah we all know what his integrity is like with footy news. Just trying to decipher what he meant by that comment.

I think it's just that he wants it to be D Day so he can get a story. If he doesn't get a story, he'll just make one up.

 

[BEaston]

Our best has been shown to be good enough to stack up with the best in the league. We led many metrics over the season.

I think a lot of changes proposed are massive overreactions.

The biggest thing they need to fix is their mental fortitude which results in the whole team dropping the proverbial ball for entire games here and there. The gap between our best and worst is the size of the Grand Canyon, and our worst happens way too frequently. Fix that up and we're in a much better position.

Yes we could make some slight personnel and strategic tweaks on the edges but I don't think it's moving the dial much until we fix the problem above.

How to fix that problem, though... million dollar question.

 

[TiAn_]

Our best has been shown to be good enough to stack up with the best in the league. We led many metrics over the season.

I think a lot of changes proposed are massive overreactions.

The biggest thing they need to fix is their mental fortitude which results in the whole team dropping the proverbial ball for entire games here and there. The gap between our best and worst is the size of the Grand Canyon, and our worst happens way too frequently. Fix that up and we're in a much better position.

Yes we could make some slight personnel and strategic tweaks on the edges but I don't think it's moving the dial much until we fix the problem above.

How to fix that problem, though... million dollar question.

The problem is this could have summarised the team any season from 2017-2024. Great form in patches, poor form in others and seemingly only small tweaks away from bigger and better things.

The on-field personnel keeps changing but the inconsistency remains. At this point I’ve formed the view that inconsistency is an inherent output of Beveridge’s approach to coaching. Whether it’s his admitted emphasis on the emotional side of things or something else, I don’t know. But the defining word of his tenure since 2016 is “inconsistent”.

 

[Sentinel]

Competition rules state that players must have featured in six VFL games during that particular season, and played no more than 12 AFL games, to be eligible to play in the VFL finals. However, if an AFL team is still alive in the finals, you can select anyone from your squad in the VFL.

In order to be eligible, each player must have played at least one AFL, VFL or Development game in 2019. If they have played an AFL home and away match after the 1st of July, they must have played at least six VFL games during the season to remain eligible. https://boxhillhawks.com.au/vfl-finals-eligibility/

This is more relevant to the rest of the Footscray campaign, but a relevant point - JJ for example meets the criteria to continue playing VFL finals despite not playing 6 VFL games. Hawkins obviously qualified on the weekend because his AFL side played the same weekend.

 

[dergert]

Come on Baz... Norf or Richmond will do.

 

[Unorth]

I dont think it’s about getting big name recruits (which we don’t get anyway).

We just have a few roles requiring more afl standard players.

We have been trying and failing to find a wing since we sacked Hunter. In the end we just kind of gave up on it and rolled with Williams + wing by committee with Poulter dropped. I’m not big on Poulter, but we did see how lacking we are in running power at that position.

McNeil and VDM could both be replaced by players that can run as hard but have actual afl level skills so they can contribute something offensively. There were intentions there with us drafting Clarke and O’Driscoll and signing AJ. But this should be a more ready made recruit, and if we get anything out of Clarke (if he’s on the list) or AJ next season that’s a bonus, not a given. At this point it’s very unlikely McNeil or VDM have scope for improvement - they are what they are. Fast, hard role players that do as instructed but too limited and wouldn’t concern opposition coaches in the slightest.

Duryea has no real replacement other than us taking someone on the list that plays a different position and hoping they can make it work as a disciplined small defender. Not sure.

Tim isn’t a good ruck but we have the option to throw Darcy in there, as long as we stand firm on changing the % of ruck time for both going forward. Our mids have issues between the ears but on paper they’re fine.

Possibly controversial but if Lobb still prefers to play as a forward, I would entertain trading him if it (directly or indirectly) netted us an equivalent experienced player in an area of need. But only in that event. Not for an 18 year old draft pick. Jones, JoD, Buss, Coffield, Gardner all under contract and Buku possibly to re-sign - we would be ok for depth still.

To be honest those positions I mentioned above have been issues for more than just season 2024. If we go quietly into the trade period , cop pick 18 for Baz and hope some kids can help us win a premiership next season I would have mounting concerns about our list management.

We dont need to “win” the trade period, just patch a couple of holes. The list is mostly in good shape, it’s just a shame we gave two year deals (or cough 4 year deal cough) to a few one year deal level players, so we can’t recycle them this year and the inevitable delist occurs next.

 

[Dogs54]

Our best has been shown to be good enough to stack up with the best in the league. We led many metrics over the season.

I think a lot of changes proposed are massive overreactions.

The biggest thing they need to fix is their mental fortitude which results in the whole team dropping the proverbial ball for entire games here and there. The gap between our best and worst is the size of the Grand Canyon, and our worst happens way too frequently. Fix that up and we're in a much better position.

Yes we could make some slight personnel and strategic tweaks on the edges but I don't think it's moving the dial much until we fix the problem above.

How to fix that problem, though... million dollar question.

It's ok to have a good H&A season but finals is a different ball game. We need the players, coaches and the systems to win finals and currently IMO we have the players but lack a forward system to better utilize the talent and coaches to educate the players. Can the current coaches deliver the system, teach and motivate the players, guide on the best way to defeat the opposition and make match day changes, I don't think so.

 

[VitalDread]

Apparently exit meetings are today

 

[Doggy]

Apparently exit meetings are today

Yes they are

 

[Dog 36]

Apparently exit meetings are today

These exit meetings have morphed to be big news almost bigger than trade week

Need to bug the room and listen in

 

[dergert]

Wow.. apparently Bevo skateboards

 

[Doggy]

Wow.. apparently Bevo skateboards

As eye opening as Pendelbery playing basketball

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Digging into some stats opponents took marks from their inside 50 entries 24.6% of the time this season which is 4th worst in the league which only Richmond, North and West Coast are worst (and are basically bottom 3 in every stat).

Given we were slightly worse than average in opposition scores per inside 50, it seems this was the biggest contributing factor - the marks - while our rebound/pressure/intercepting when the ball hits the deck was actually okay and brought us back up to something around league average.

Even accepting game style, role, the reason we were bad in this stat is because of Khamis/Keath playing games etc. I think that raises a lot of question marks about Jones' value to the team this season in general, whether he was actually that good or bad, and whether he'll be good next year and should even be an automatic best 22 selection.

Say that's true and we can't rely on Jones being that good anymore, it leaves Lobb as our best key defender which is a ridiculous position to be in given that's not his best position, he too is older than 30 and still might be needed in other positions with injuries etc. (as was the case a couple of weeks ago).

Maybe Gardner's injuries this season were more meaningful and he would have helped arrest some of this. He did come top 10 in our best and fairest in the one and only year that he was able to have an uninterrupted injury year over the last few after all.

I think it does leave our list exposed a lot (and explains why we were after Barrass), and a lot of list depth questions depend on the output of a player who is even yet to play an AFL game in Buss.

 

[Dogs Rule]

If we're stuck with him the work needs to start very early this pre-season to change up his body. Needs to put on 10kg in the core and not worry too much about covering as much ground.

On SM-A505YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's timidity. That's the problem. Zero presence when ruck is all about having presence and physicality. He's got as much presence as an empty coat rack.

 

[roos 10]

Come on Baz... Norf or Richmond will do.

But you will get nothing they can take him psd

 

[Dogs Rule]

Apparently exit meetings are today

Hopefully a few are exited.

 

[Dog 36]

It's timidity. That's the problem. Zero presence when ruck is all about having presence and physicality. He's got as much presence as an empty coat rack.

By now I would think the club would know whether or not that is going change. They would have known when they gave the 5 year deal. It is innate just has not got it and will not ever get it.

All I can think of is that is the type of Ruck the club believed is best for this group

 

[Dogs Rule]

By now I would think the club would know whether or not that is going change. They would have known when they gave the 5 year deal. It is innate just has not got it and will not ever get it.

All I can think of is that is the type of Ruck the club believed is best for this group

So you shift him. You play him down forward, relief ruck, whatever, or you trade him. I don't care, but he cannot be our main ruck going forward.

No softly softly approach with English or anyone else now, perform or you're out. We've had to concede the ruck because English has no presence and can't win the contest, those chickens came home to roost on Friday night.

 

[TiAn_]

Digging into some stats opponents took marks from their inside 50 entries 24.6% of the time this season which is 4th worst in the league which only Richmond, North and West Coast are worst (and are basically bottom 3 in every stat).

Given we were slightly worse than average in opposition scores per inside 50, it seems this was the biggest contributing factor - the marks - while our rebound/pressure/intercepting when the ball hits the deck was actually okay and brought us back up to something around league average.

Even accepting game style, role, the reason we were bad in this stat is because of Khamis/Keath playing games etc. I think that raises a lot of question marks about Jones' value to the team this season in general, whether he was actually that good or bad, and whether he'll be good next year and should even be an automatic best 22 selection.

Say that's true and we can't rely on Jones being that good anymore, it leaves Lobb as our best key defender which is a ridiculous position to be in given that's not his best position, he too is older than 30 and still might be needed in other positions with injuries etc. (as was the case a couple of weeks ago).

Maybe Gardner's injuries this season were more meaningful and he would have helped arrest some of this. He did come top 10 in our best and fairest in the one and only year that he was able to have an uninterrupted injury year over the last few after all.

I think it does leave our list exposed a lot (and explains why we were after Barrass), and a lot of list depth questions depend on the output of a player who is even yet to play an AFL game in Buss.

That stat for marks per inside 50 could be down to a number of things, other than just Khamis or Keath getting beaten. And is way too broad to be a measure of Jones’ individual impact.

Who is taking the marks? What percentage are forwards v. non-forwards? Key forwards or small forwards? Are they contested or uncontested marks? How deep inside 50 are we conceding the marks? We could be conceding a lot of uncontested marks on shallow inside 50s to midfielders drifting forward for all I know. That would suggest an entirely different issue.

 

[FoochPackage]

Digging into some stats opponents took marks from their inside 50 entries 24.6% of the time this season which is 4th worst in the league which only Richmond, North and West Coast are worst (and are basically bottom 3 in every stat).

Given we were slightly worse than average in opposition scores per inside 50, it seems this was the biggest contributing factor - the marks - while our rebound/pressure/intercepting when the ball hits the deck was actually okay and brought us back up to something around league average.

Even accepting game style, role, the reason we were bad in this stat is because of Khamis/Keath playing games etc. I think that raises a lot of question marks about Jones' value to the team this season in general, whether he was actually that good or bad, and whether he'll be good next year and should even be an automatic best 22 selection.

Say that's true and we can't rely on Jones being that good anymore, it leaves Lobb as our best key defender which is a ridiculous position to be in given that's not his best position, he too is older than 30 and still might be needed in other positions with injuries etc. (as was the case a couple of weeks ago).

Maybe Gardner's injuries this season were more meaningful and he would have helped arrest some of this. He did come top 10 in our best and fairest in the one and only year that he was able to have an uninterrupted injury year over the last few after all.

I think it does leave our list exposed a lot (and explains why we were after Barrass), and a lot of list depth questions depend on the output of a player who is even yet to play an AFL game in Buss.

Gardner ??? Crikey, have a spell mate. If Gardner is back in the 1s. We aren't going anywhere. He cannot dispose of the ball.

 

[Dogs 13]

JUH is 2 years away from maturity. Very young and still growing into the man he will become.

Last night will sting and he will learn.

I'm far from convinced about it stinging with many of them.
Not just Marra, but lack of effort, desperation, heart, readiness and ability from so many was gut-wrenching.
There was more pain in the crowd than from many of the players.

Sorry to have responded so long after your post, I'm just catching up after being in shell-shock from Friday night and not reading much BF until today..

Oh and a big shout out to the flog sitting in front of us wearing a Dog's top. In the last quarter when the Hawks were home safe he stands up rips the top off to show a Hawk's guernsey underneath and double cobra's in everyone's face like he'd just kicked the winning goal after the siren. They're really are gunna be a painful supporter group AGAIN !!

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Gardner ??? Crikey, have a spell mate. If Gardner is back in the 1s. We aren't going anywhere. He cannot dispose of the ball.

More that he may have been a better option at times, if fit, than Khamis and Keath this season, not that he's necessarily the answer

 

[GetDimmaBack]

These exit meetings have morphed to be big news almost bigger than trade week

Need to bug the room and listen in

Yeah, it'd be enlightening to be a fly on the wall, hey?

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

With regards to trading Baz, if as the unreliable media reports are right and Geelong has been in his ear since last year then…
if they make the player ask for a trade to Geelong they need to make fair compensation, picks 16, 17 or 18 is not fair compensation. Half of Geelong’s list is made up of players from other clubs, the PR from haggling and not providing fair compensation is not a good look. Geelong in the past were quite fair, until Mackie took over, but I think they have taken Mackie out of the list management role recently, perhaps the Geelong lurkers who seem to be living on our board recently can comment on this.

Players, unless they are really pissed off with their club want their previous club fairly compensated. Bevo has stated that his relationship with Baz is still strong so that is not the issue, Bevo has always protected his players, Baz included.

Secondly Power has already thrown down the gauntlet and said two firsts, he didn’t budge with Dunkley to Essendon and I can’t see him accepting a miserable first here.

I think we will lose some players to other trades this year, and I hope we use these picks to trade up in the draft and get some midfielders in, our midfield looked old on Friday night.

 

[BEaston]

It's ok to have a good H&A season but finals is a different ball game. We need the players, coaches and the systems to win finals and currently IMO we have the players but lack a forward system to better utilize the talent and coaches to educate the players. Can the current coaches deliver the system, teach and motivate the players, guide on the best way to defeat the opposition and make match day changes, I don't think so.

I think there were huge improvements in the coaching this season. should improve again next year with more time to develop/gel as well.

Considering 2022-23 were disastrous in that area, this year was a big step up.

Let's just see what Hawks do this finals series. If they get belted next week then I'd maybe reconsider but I think they are the best team (or maybe 2nd best) left and if the standard is we have to be the best team every season, then I don't think it's realistic.