Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dom sheed pocket]

400k per season is pretty cheap for Lobb imo - coming off the year he'd had for Freo and filling a specific need for us at the time.

Contract is definitely not a cap killer even if he's just depth moving forward.

Hope you don’t mind me chiming in but this is Lobb’s MO.

He gets a front ended deal and leaves before the later years kick in.

Was on average 700K per year at Freo front ended.

Turned that in to 1.6m over 4 years at dogs front ended.

Bloke has been on overs for nearly a decade.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I'd be moving the ''keeping Baz meter'' upto about 75% this morning.
If Libba retires I'd move it to 100%.

All he wants is midfield minutes and years, we're offering less than Hawks but it seems his more inclined to stay with us.

Seriously hope he stays.

Midfield is stacked long term if he does with Bont sanders Baz and now Ed coming on.

Means we can focus resources on the backline.

 

[doggy_dog]

I'd be moving the ''keeping Baz meter'' upto about 75% this morning.
If Libba retires I'd move it to 100%.

All he wants is midfield minutes and years, we're offering less than Hawks but it seems his more inclined to stay with us.

Is this “keeping Baz meter” your feelings towards likeliness or just what you want to happen? Desperately hoping likeliness

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Never in doubt.

 

[Iamspock]

I would like him to stay for the FU Geelong and Hawthorn benefit alone.

And a big fat FU to the AFL media.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Inside Trading Article

DOGS OFFER YOUNGSTER DEAL​

THE WESTERN Bulldogs have put a contract offer to first-round pick Jedd Busslinger as the developing tall defender reaches the midway point of his second season at the club.

Busslinger was the Dogs' No.13 pick at the 2022 AFL draft but is yet to break through for his debut at the top level in the club's well-stocked talls department. The West Australian is one of only two first-round picks from that season yet to re-sign beyond his standard two-year deal, with Swan Jacob Konstanty, the No.20 pick that season, also remaining out of contract beyond this year.
Konstanty is gathering rival interest as a small forward and also is yet to get in a shot at AFL level with the Swans.

The Dogs have made a contract offer to extend Busslinger beyond the end of this season. – Callum Twomey

 

[Smiley Boy]

Have heard some mail today

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

Take of that what you will

 

[Smiley Boy]

Inside Trading Article

DOGS OFFER YOUNGSTER DEAL​

THE WESTERN Bulldogs have put a contract offer to first-round pick Jedd Busslinger as the developing tall defender reaches the midway point of his second season at the club.

Busslinger was the Dogs' No.13 pick at the 2022 AFL draft but is yet to break through for his debut at the top level in the club's well-stocked talls department. The West Australian is one of only two first-round picks from that season yet to re-sign beyond his standard two-year deal, with Swan Jacob Konstanty, the No.20 pick that season, also remaining out of contract beyond this year.
Konstanty is gathering rival interest as a small forward and also is yet to get in a shot at AFL level with the Swans.

The Dogs have made a contract offer to extend Busslinger beyond the end of this season. – Callum Twomey

Won’t resign he’s goneski

 

[TiAn_]

Somebody been leaking like the Titanic’s hull today

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Have heard some mail today

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

Take of that what you will

Nek minute - Baz re-signs and Bevo takes us deep into finals and we are all begging him to stay

 

[cecil]

Have heard some mail today

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

Take of that what you will

Probably a good thing.

Hopefully the games put into Gallagher, Darcy, Sanders etc pay off and we still move on Daniel. Will set us up mid term

 

[Struggle]

If Libba is forced to retire by the league panel, what happens with next year's salary? Can we pay it to him outside the cap?

I guess that goes for odriscoll too. I assume/hope we still pay him his contracted amount for next year but is it included?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

I'm not convinced either of these things are (or rather, can be true) true this early into the season.
Other teams' salary cap management can change between now and at the end of the season, and I don't think many Dogs fans or Bevo himself would necessarily leave if we were to make and win a final, which is not as unlikely as people are making it out to be, for instance.

 

[Guido]

Have heard some mail today

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

Take of that what you will

Geez, from the doom and gloom of the last few weeks to a potentially a new midfield of Baz, Sanders, Richards, with resources to chase another gun...

 

[Bald]

1.6M over 4 years for Lobb is actually an amazing deal for us to be completely honest. Even if you view that money as an investment into the calm and patient manner that we've been able to manage Sam Darcy.

 

[Bald]

If Libba is forced to retire by the league panel, what happens with next year's salary? Can we pay it to him outside the cap?

I guess that goes for odriscoll too. I assume/hope we still pay him his contracted amount for next year but is it included?

There is nothing official on that, most journos are split.

My personal belief is that if a player is required to medically retire, then it probably should be outside of the cap. Does anyone know how it's handled in the NRL or internationally in the NBA?

 

[Sentinel]

I'm not convinced either of these things are (or rather, can be true) true this early into the season.
Other teams' salary cap management can change between now and at the end of the season, and I don't think many Dogs fans or Bevo himself would necessarily leave if we were to make and win a final, which is not as unlikely as people are making it out to be, for instance.

I'm not a betting man, but the bookies currently have us at about $4 to make the top 8. If the qualifier for Bevo to stay is that we need to win a final as you say, that means the market would have us at a roughly 1 in 8 chance of doing so.

Removing bias, unless things change significantly and very quickly it is unlikely.

 

[VitalDread]

Have heard some mail today

• Baz likely to stay on 3 year deal
• Bevo likely to leave on his own accord at end of the year

Take of that what you will

 

[Sentinel]

There is nothing official on that, most journos are split.

My personal belief is that if a player is required to medically retire, then it probably should be outside of the cap. Does anyone know how it's handled in the NRL or internationally in the NBA?

I think there needs to be some factor of the risk with signing any contract built into it. A contract, particularly a multi-year deal, carries uncertainty including form, player behaviour and injury risk.

A player can be badly injured, to the extent that their playing career is impacted significantly, without being formally medically retired - meaning the line between a medical retirement and a player driven retirement or substantially drop in output is too large when it comes to salary cap if you remove it all for a medical retirement.

I'm not sure what the perfect split would be, but in my mind there needs to be some % of the remaining contract carried by the club themselves within the cap.

 

[Bald]

Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

on a 3 year deal is bizarre given he's a free agent in 2 years.

Scrimshaw did the same for Hawthorn. I wonder what the thinking is.

 

[Bald]

I think there needs to be some factor of the risk with signing any contract built into it. A contract, particularly a multi-year deal, carries uncertainty including form, player behaviour and injury risk.

A player can be badly injured, to the extent that their playing career is impacted significantly, without being formally medically retired - meaning the line between a medical retirement and a player driven retirement or substantially drop in output is too large when it comes to salary cap if you remove it all for a medical retirement.

I'm not sure what the perfect split would be, but in my mind there needs to be some % of the remaining contract carried by the club themselves within the cap.

Completely understand the view and honestly I've gone a bit back and forth with where I stand. Ultimately, I just think the clubs are paying the players to play - if they've been ruled out due to circumstances out of their control, then that goes beyond what I think is a reasonable risk.

Especially when you look at young O'Driscoll, it was one hit, one collision and one contest.

 

[adogsfan5]

Looks like a deal has been given to Buss… now we wait.

 

[Struggle]

Bailey Smith on a 3 year deal is bizarre given he's a free agent in 2 years.

Scrimshaw did the same for Hawthorn. I wonder what the thinking is.

Extra year of security, maybe the club bumps up the offer higher over 3 than they're giving for 2 years.
it's not like they lose free agency when they are out of contract the year later

 

[Bald]

Extra year of security, maybe the club bumps up the offer higher over 3 than they're giving for 2 years.
it's not like they lose free agency when they are out of contract the year later

That's actually a great point. Not sure why I didn't consider that.

 

[Sentinel]

Completely understand the view and honestly I've gone a bit back and forth with where I stand. Ultimately, I just think the clubs are paying the players to play - if they've been ruled out due to circumstances out of their control, then that goes beyond what I think is a reasonable risk.

Especially when you look at young O'Driscoll, it was one hit, one collision and one contest.

Yeah its a tricky one. I think what sways my opinion in the other direction to you is that injury and injury risk is (unfortunately) a part of football, and a career can be over from injury (ie circumstances out of a player's control) without the line being drawn officially. I do get of course that if a player retires through injury that's still 'technically' in their control, compared to one where a concussion panel draws the line.

Two other factors I consider:
1. The example of Melbourne who signed Brayshaw on a long term deal after he'd already had multiple concussions. If it were the case for a player with dodgy knees about to give way, you sign a player for 6 years and they do another retirement worthy ACL - 1 gets fully included in the cap, the other gets fully excluded?
2. Excluding medical retirements fully from the salary cap could potentially incentivise clubs to angle towards such retirements if they held undesirable contracts. I'm not sure how a club could influence that, but it must be within the realms of possibilities.

There is no black and white answer to what is best.