Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[redmania]

His form is patchy and his kicking lets him down in many games, but there's not many other young players in the league who have accumulated a number of individually outstanding games like Smith has - look at his Brownlow and Coaches votes statistics at his age.

Also, his output of statistics would have been better if he had been given a chance to play proper centre bounce onball minutes, which we haven't been able to give him - I don't blame him for thinking that he's a better player than one stuck behind Treloar, Libba, Bont, Macrae centre bounce minutes in his career, if he was given that positional opportunity in his most natural position.

I don't disagree that his average output is bad and declined in 2023 but there's not many other 21, 22, 23 year olds who had as many individually good games (such as those getting 2 and 3 brownlow votes) as Smith, and the ones that are (your Serong, Anderson types) would gather more than a top 5 pick if traded right now, which we're not asking for - just a top 10 pick or equivalent.

Sammy P is that you?

 

[Bald]

Yall realise Mackie isn’t the list manager at the Cats anymore, right?

 

[lachy]

With the way the modern game is played does it make sense to have circa $5M locked up in English, Marra, Naughton and Darcy?

Having quality small forwards and players that can cover the ground + apply manic pressure are vital to successful finals teams. I'm not sure our list management strategy is set up for success.

Do we?
English $800,000
Marra $900,000
Naughton $1,000,000

That would have Darcy on $2,300,000

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Sammy P is that you?

Bailey Smith has more coaches votes across his career (132) in just five seasons than players like Jacob Hopper (131) has had in eight seasons across his career.

Compare to players like Jordan Dawson who had 80 total Coaches Votes in his Sydney career plus his first year at Adelaide, and wasn't getting contracts as good relative to the salary cap as Smith's.

The knee and the high variance of his performance in his career so far matter for Smith but at least he's shown a capability to play a top elite level (for his age) in patches, and I'd much rather an inconsistent player who has proven that he has the capability (if not consistency) to play in a style that's similar to the game's elite, rather than a player who has topped out even with less consistency.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Bailey Smith has more coaches votes across his career (132) in just five seasons than players like Jacob Hopper (131) has had in eight seasons across his career.

Compare to players like Jordan Dawson who had 80 total Coaches Votes in his Sydney career plus his first year at Adelaide, and wasn't getting contracts as good relative to the salary cap as Smith's.

The knee and the high variance of his performance in his career so far matter for Smith but at least he's shown a capability to play a top elite level (for his age) in patches, and I'd much rather an inconsistent player who has proven that he has the capability (if not consistency) to play in a style that's similar to the game's elite, rather than a player who has topped out even with less consistency.

But, but, according to the media hacks like Edmund we should just shut up and accept what we've offered.

He's a Carlton supporter, right? Guessing if Smith was leaving Carlton he would have a different slant.

 

[Bulldogs85]

But, but, according to the media hacks like Edmund we should just shut up and accept what we've offered.

He's a Carlton supporter, right? Guessing if Smith was leaving Carlton he would have a different slant.

Yes Edmund is a Carlton supporter

 

[bobs head soup]

Is he worth an early 3rd rounder?

Saints need a tall defender and there aren't many available.

Buks is an improving 24 year old who played 17 games this year.

I reckon they'd gladly cough up a 3rd.

I'd be offering Khamis and 44 for pick 24, should he be open to a trade.

 

[Foxman98]

Saints need a tall defender and there aren't many available.

Buks is an improving 24 year old who played 17 games this year.

I reckon they'd gladly cough up a 3rd.

I'd be offering Khamis and 44 for pick 24, should he be open to a trade.

There is no chance in hell Buku adds that much value to the trade

 

[threenewpadlocks]

For the sake of argument:

Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

has played 8 individual games where he has received 8 coaches votes or higher from 103 games played

Compared to someone like Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

at GWS, who has also played five years into his career.

No doubt that Green is the better player (obviously), but Green has only ever had 4 games (from 91) where he had received 8 coaches votes or higher.

To this day, Adam Cerra, who went for pick 5 in a trade and is probably a similar comparison, has only ever had 7 games (from 129) where he's had 8 coaches votes or higher in that game.

I'm not saying for a second Smith is as good as a player - we have to take his most recent form for what it was, and his ability to play consistency even before there was true and still matters - but at the same time, there's an upside to play a match-winning, BOG performance, from a young age, that not many other players have matched. That itself is true, and why in part he has the profile and the demand he does.

The media coming out with stuff like "never made an AA squad [which about 12 midfielders make and there's about 2-3 midfielders per year younger than 25 that do make it]" or "never higher than 7th in best and fairest [even though again that's good for a young player in a good team and that scoring system rates consistency]" shows you the bias involved here.

 

[Foxman98]

In terms of ins though if we can at a minimum get Peatling and O'Driscoll I think we are upgrading 2 of our bottom 6

 

[RWnBluey]

Some rough comparisons from a few quick calculations:
Cerra (OOC) equivalent pick 4
Taranto (OOC) equivalent pick 3
Hopper (pre-agent) equivalent pick 4
Dunkley (OOC) equivalent pick 5/6
Henry (OOC) equivalent pick 17

 

[Rookie]

In terms of ins though if we can at a minimum get Peatling and O'Driscoll I think we are upgrading 2 of our bottom 6

Those two would represent the kind of incremental change we need across the ground - replacing like-for-like but with more pace and youth.

If we could snag a pacey back pocket lockdown and a small forward who is fast, pressures and actually threatens the scorer, we'd have gone a long way to countering our perceived weaknesses and changing the overall dynamic of the team. Trade up whatever pieces we get for Bailey Smith into the best possible pick this year to find another pacey mid and it's been a good offseason. Lots to be optimistic about.

Get it done Sammy.

 

[Dog 36]

Yall realise Mackie isn’t the list manager at the Cats anymore, right?

Chris Scott referenced him yesterday in relation to B.Smith

Ignore his title he was and is responsible to oversee Geelong's list.

 

[Mofra]

Is he worth an early 3rd rounder?

Perhaps. Buks isn't the sort of player that costs a lot at the trade table, although as a tall we could possibly squeeze a third rounder out of wherever he goes.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Bulldogs utility Buku Khamis will remain in the red, white and blue for the next two seasons after committing to a new deal at the Kennel.

The 24-year-old played 17 games this season, primarily in defence, averaging three intercept marks and ten touches per game.

Rising through the ranks to become the Bulldogs’ first Next Generation Academy selection in 2018, Khamis has played 27 games and kicked 7 goals.

Khamis was pleased to lock away the deal and remain at the Bulldogs.

“I am very excited to be locked in at the Kennel for two more years,” Khamis said.

“I love the playing group and coaches – I still feel like I have a lot of development left in me.

“The Club has done a lot for myself and my family. The culture is amazing, we are a pretty tight group – it made my choice pretty easy.

“I’ve taken a lot of confidence out of this season, what I’ve been able to do with the coaches and players, I’ll take that into 2025.”

Western Bulldogs General Manager of List and Recruiting, Sam Power

Sam Power

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

7.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

, was happy to secure Khamis into the future.
“Buku has continued to develop this season after his first full pre-season in the backline,” Power said.

“As a Club, we’re pleased to have Buku with us for at least the next two seasons, with plenty of growth and development left in his game.

“He has shown an ability to intercept and use his aerial ability to good effect in games this season, taking a significant step forward with 17 AFL appearances.”

Khamis continues to play a pivotal role in the community, working with the Western Bulldogs Community Foundation regularly throughout the season.

 

[W W Biscuit]

Buku has signed a two year deal. News just in from the club.

 

[Foxman98]

Bulldogs utility Buku Khamis will remain in the red, white and blue for the next two seasons after committing to a new deal at the Kennel.

The 24-year-old played 17 games this season, primarily in defence, averaging three intercept marks and ten touches per game.

Rising through the ranks to become the Bulldogs’ first Next Generation Academy selection in 2018, Khamis has played 27 games and kicked 7 goals.

Khamis was pleased to lock away the deal and remain at the Bulldogs.

“I am very excited to be locked in at the Kennel for two more years,” Khamis said.

“I love the playing group and coaches – I still feel like I have a lot of development left in me.

“The Club has done a lot for myself and my family. The culture is amazing, we are a pretty tight group – it made my choice pretty easy.

“I’ve taken a lot of confidence out of this season, what I’ve been able to do with the coaches and players, I’ll take that into 2025.”

Western Bulldogs General Manager of List and Recruiting, Sam Power, was happy to secure Khamis into the future.
“Buku has continued to develop this season after his first full pre-season in the backline,” Power said.

“As a Club, we’re pleased to have Buku with us for at least the next two seasons, with plenty of growth and development left in his game.

“He has shown an ability to intercept and use his aerial ability to good effect in games this season, taking a significant step forward with 17 AFL appearances.”

Khamis continues to play a pivotal role in the community, working with the Western Bulldogs Community Foundation regularly throughout the season.

Happy with him as a solid depth option,

Hope for his sake he can keep developing

 

[VitalDread]

Dogs hoping to lock West and Buku in 3/2 year deals

Buku declined a 4 year off from the Saints to stay with us

Guessing he will be promoted to Main List in the draft

 

[Foxman98]

Those two would represent the kind of incremental change we need across the ground - replacing like-for-like but with more pace and youth.

If we could snag a pacey back pocket lockdown and a small forward who is fast, pressures and actually threatens the scorer, we'd have gone a long way to countering our perceived weaknesses and changing the overall dynamic of the team. Trade up whatever pieces we get for Bailey Smith into the best possible pick this year to find another pacey mid and it's been a good offseason. Lots to be optimistic about.

Get it done Sammy.

Think Bramble is actually not bad at this,

The other one to factor in is hopefully after another proper preseason Coffield can get his form back properly and take that Doc role

 

[Libbaaaa]

Buku declined a 4 year off from the Saints to stay with us

Guessing he will be promoted to Main List in the draft

He's been on the Cat B rookie this entire time? Wow.

 

[Golden_6]

I'm happy that Buku has resigned although I don't expect him to be best 22 next season. Lobb & Jones with either Buss/JOD as the third tall is my preferred option. He's quality depth and has made considerable improvements this season.

His focus this offseason needs to be strength in one on one contests and his ground ball work.

I think this should mean that Keath will retire (or not be offered a new contract).

 

[cherrypie]

You can also lock in that Geelong double up now for the fixture release except we’ll probably have to play at the cow paddock twice.

It’ll be the same as this year. Their home game in Geelong. Our home game in another state

 

[VitalDread]

He's been on the Cat B rookie this entire time? Wow.

Cat B can be 4-5 years depending on games played from memory

 

[Bonty4]

A few clubs are offering Buku a larger $ and longer years than us ATM

That aged quickly

 

[DiamondDogs8]

I thought Buku was elevated onto the main list a couple of years back? Maybe I’m experiencing Mandela effect