Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Anja_Nees]

Also Matthew Lloyd has officially entered tosser territory, absolutely reaming us for losing “3” All Australians, and that they were all played out of position.

You would think his next thought would be “why weren’t they playing in their favourite position” but apparently that’s a bridge too far.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Not officially announced by the club yet but has happened.

It’s on the AFL website now.

You don’t usually let high(ish) draft picks go after two years so the other factors hinted at in this thread probably did it.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Those ratings are about as relevant to influence on performance in seasons to come as supporters opinions, given those in the media are nothing more than supporters with a voice

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I remember us getting rated the best performer in the 2008 draft by Emma Quayle after getting Cordy, Jones and Roughead.

The last two had good careers but it took a while and the first was a bust.

You can’t rank clubs’ trade and draft periods until they’ve had time to play out.

 

[Dogs Rule]

L

His tossing the blade of grass in the air set shot routine always had him in the tosser or just plain dumbf*ck category with me.

It was the squealing when Kretiuk targeted his injured hand first game back (he was out on the ground so fair game) that did it for me.

Mind you he was wearing a dirty big glove.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Pardon the intrusion.

Seems like the consensus around here is that Charlie Clarke doesn't have much of a future playing AFL.

As someone who's watched bugger all Footscray VFL games this year, I naively ask - why?

His stats don't seem terrible. His tackling numbers are consistently respectable, and it seems like he's good for a goal or two a game, albeit in the reserves. What's the knock on his game?

 

[W W Biscuit]

On field talent was only partially the reason he was delisted. I wish him the best as he seemed like an enthusiastic young man but his off field circles were much the same as Stringer’s if you’re reading between the lines.

Not something that the club would have been unaware of prior to drafting him? I remember pre-draft that he was being described on this board as a bit of a lad.

 

[TiAn_]

Yeah don’t think this one was just about on-field. He improved year on year. But there was the chat about him being a bit of a handful. I assumed the Treloar living arrangement was to try and give him a chance to sort it out for next year.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

With how we picked Freijah and Smith last year, I'm all for cutting deep to give out scouts more shots late in the draft

I saw nothing of Smith. Are you saying he looks a good pickup?

 

[Doggy]

I'm assuming we pick up a DFA now. Need a small forward badly now

 

[_Cerberus_]

I feel like small forward is our new Achilles heel.

For so long, the Dogs were a team that struggled to find, and develop tall key position players. Now we have them batting deep. But outside of Weightman, we have an undersized mid in West playing there. Vandermeer, McNeil rotating through with little impact. Even for both West and Weightman, the goals dried up a bit in the final few weeks. Jones who struggles to find the ball. Clarke who just got delisted.

It feels like us finding, and getting a impactful small forward right is our new weakness.

With Clarkes delisting, it is all but certain we will target one in the upcoming draft, unless we take a swing on any free agents. I just hope this time, we get it right.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Who’s the best pure small forward in the state leagues?

 

[DognBones]

Isaac Kako seems to be the best small forward in the draft but he's off to Essendon. Cal Twomey has these 2 in his best 30:

At Ranking 17: Joe Berry 180cm Murray Bushrangers
It was a super season from Berry across all levels, with the extra clever small forward finishing his Bushrangers campaign with 27 goals from 14 games. He also led Vic Country's goalkicking with nine majors. Berry has a turn of pace, works hard up and down the ground, slots most of his opportunities and has the intangibles the best small forward prospects have around goal like knowing when to lead, when to crumb and when to assist.

At Ranking Ranking 30: Oliver Hannaford 180cm GWV Rebels
The new face in the Form Guide comes in through a weight of goals – and his timing might be spot on. As Hawthorn powered into being a goal from a preliminary final on the back of a stack of small forwards, Hannaford's speed, goalkicking, pressure, ferocity and attack on the ball has stood out in the back half of the year. He was a threat late for the Rebels on Sunday, when he kicked one goal, which takes his tally to 20 from the past eight games, including an eye-catching six-goal display in the qualifying final.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Isaac Kako seems to be the best small forward in the draft but he's off to Essendon. Cal Twomey has these 2 in his best 30:

At Ranking 17: Joe Berry 180cm Murray Bushrangers
It was a super season from Berry across all levels, with the extra clever small forward finishing his Bushrangers campaign with 27 goals from 14 games. He also led Vic Country's goalkicking with nine majors. Berry has a turn of pace, works hard up and down the ground, slots most of his opportunities and has the intangibles the best small forward prospects have around goal like knowing when to lead, when to crumb and when to assist.

At Ranking Ranking 30: Oliver Hannaford 180cm GWV Rebels
The new face in the Form Guide comes in through a weight of goals – and his timing might be spot on. As Hawthorn powered into being a goal from a preliminary final on the back of a stack of small forwards, Hannaford's speed, goalkicking, pressure, ferocity and attack on the ball has stood out in the back half of the year. He was a threat late for the Rebels on Sunday, when he kicked one goal, which takes his tally to 20 from the past eight games, including an eye-catching six-goal display in the qualifying final.

I'd be happy of we took both! They'll both go earlier than this though..

 

[dogwatch]

There's only a handful of players selected after Clarke who have played more than a couple games. That whole 2022 draft after the first round looks an all-time bad draft.

You've got Lachie Cowan, Toby McMullin, Harvey Gallagher, Tom Emmett, Billy Dowling, Joe Richards and Alwyn Davey who've played more than ten games.

Agree. It's just disappointing that after we had reduced draft hands due to bid-matching, with

picks 1 (JUH), 55 (Bedendo) and 61 (Cleary) in 2020 and​

picks 2 (Darcy) and 43 (Arty) in 2021​

we finally had a draft in 2022 where we had 2 picks in the top 25 ... and it turns out to be an exceptionally shallow draft.

Of the eight ND draftees from those three years we only have JUH, Darcy and probably Gallagher & Busslinger as long term prospects. Even those last two are no certainties yet.

Two others (Cleary and Arty Jones) are just hanging on to their list spot but either or both could be gone when their contracts end. And two others have already been taken off the books (Bedendo and Clarke).

That's not having a shot at our recruiting team. We just haven't had the assets. And when we did have some assets it was a weak draft. They did well finding Gallagher.

The Rookie draft wasn't very productive for us either. Only Lachie McNeil (2021) looks like hanging around for a while after being de-listed and re-rookied last year. Others gone are Roarke Smith (2021 but had already been round the club for a while) and Parker, Raak and McComb (2022). And in 2021 we pre-listed Hayes, Cavarra and had a PSS in Scott who is not getting many games and will be 30 when his contract expires next year.

We are of course rapt to have Jamarra and Darcy on our list but the cost of getting them will be felt for some years.

 

[Ash1337]

I knew 2022 was a shallow draft but damn. Seems fair few of those ranked in the top 10-30 don't look to be panning out. Allan looks borderline too. Should have pushed his way in at the pies by now. Weddle, Jones Jefferson pretty much the best in that draft range. T

To be fair though after Jones it was slim pickings for small forwards.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

We are of course rapt to have Jamarra and Darcy on our list but the cost of getting them will be felt for some years.

To be fair, we probably wouldn't have had any other picks other than a first round pick if Jamarra didn't exist in 2020. We would have paid it for Treloar, if it wasn't for the fact that the points for Jamarra meant that the trade for Treloar invovled about 900 other picks going back and forth in order to maximise the points Jamarra bid.

In essence, we would have just used our own live pick 14 for a player instead, but rather, such was the ridiculousness of the points system, we were able to use that pick in the teens to jump up to pick 1. It wasn't 14 + our later picks for Jamarra, it was effectivley, we turned pick 14 into 1, and our later picks were for Treloar.

Agree with Darcy though.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I feel like small forward is our new Achilles heel.

For so long, the Dogs were a team that struggled to find, and develop tall key position players. Now we have them batting deep. But outside of Weightman, we have an undersized mid in West playing there. Vandermeer, McNeil roataing through with little impact. Even for both West and Weightman, the goals dried up a bit in the final few weeks. Jones who struggles to find the ball. Clarke who just got delisted.

It feels like us finding, and getting a impactful small forward right is our new weakness.

With Clarkes delisting, it is all but certain we will target one in the upcoming draft, unless we take a swing on any free agents. I just hope this time, we get it right.

Genuinely feel like West, who was asked to play physical roles on defenders and be a bit of both an air and ground player, can very much go to being a ground player and a small forward of sorts if Kennedy plays some minutes forward, as Kennedy is more of a marking threat, a bit like how Dunkley was not useless when he played forward despite his poor outskide kicking and decision making because he could clunk a mark.

 

[dogwatch]

To be fair, we probably wouldn't have had any other picks other than a first round pick if Jamarra didn't exist in 2020. We would have paid it for Treloar, if it wasn't for the fact that the points for Jamarra meant that the trade for Treloar invovled about 900 other picks going back and forth in order to maximise the points Jamarra bid.

In essence, we would have just used our own live pick 14 for a player instead, but rather, such was the ridiculousness of the points system, we were able to use that pick in the teens to jump up to pick 1. It wasn't 14 + our later picks for Jamarra, it was effectivley, we turned pick 14 into 1, and our later picks were for Treloar.

Agree with Darcy though.

Yep. It's always hard to unpick the complex machinations of any given October after 2-3 years have passed!

 

[PocketRocket08]

We all love an underdog story and would like all players to go on to have solid careers. But with some it's quite obvious that they aren't going to make it early in their careers. For me this was Clarke who just didnt seem to have a defining trait that made him stand out in a team crying out for a genuine small forward. He had the misfortune of having one of the least auspicious debuts that one could imagine. It may not be fair, but that one game all but sealed his fate.

absolutely incorrect

 

[PocketRocket08]

We've got more than enough defensive depth without Keath. Alternatively, we could pick up Ethan Phillips as a DFA if they want to keep the same balance on the list.

Would prefer to go to the VFL and find someone with some run and dash, or a small defender. Ben Paton could fill that Duryea gap.

A real shame about Clarke. We needed to take a small forward at that pick, but it didn't work out. Konstanty is just outperforming him (in terms of tackles and goals) in the VFL and just clung onto a list spot. I'm sure we'll be taking some HFF/small forward options. Eth-dog's phantom has us taking both Berry and Hannaford IIRC, wouldn't that be nice.

Please show me how konstantin has outperformed Clarke in any stat?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yep. It's always hard to unpick the complex machinations of any given October after 2-3 years have passed!

It's also impossible to know how the trade negotiations would have played out for Treloar (and how it may have related to other elements of his negotiation, such as how much salary Treloar were paying him), if we weren't looking to maximise points and were just negotiating a trade on the balance of using a live draft pick.

In the end they drafted Ollie Henry with the first rounder we didn't need. Our future second we gave up in 2021 they didn't need the full value of points for their draft of Nick Daicos, so they downgraded it to a third-rounder and got an additional future third-rounder.

It all becomes very complex and intertwined and hard to unpick yes! But the main point being that if we were to assume that we were actually taking a live draft pick, we would have traded the second/third for Treloar, used the pick that ended up on Ollie Henry live ourselves, and still had nothing draft picks at the end of the draft.

 

[PocketRocket08]

Pardon the intrusion.

Seems like the consensus around here is that Charlie Clarke doesn't have much of a future playing AFL.

As someone who's watched bugger all Footscray VFL games this year, I naively ask - why?

His stats don't seem terrible. His tackling numbers are consistently respectable, and it seems like he's good for a goal or two a game, albeit in the reserves. What's the knock on his game?

i watched most VFL games and his early form was very good however after his debut he did become a little inconsistent. I have learned some things today i won’t share but there were some off field issues and several
other players were involved. Now there is only one player left and apparently he is under going some counselling and on a final warning. Clarke definitely has the talent it’s just a matter of he wants it and if he is going to be disciplined and dedicated enough to continue on. Personally he was always great to my children i wish him all the best for whatever is next. I have heard a whisper several afl clubs are interested. A kid that splits Ashcroft and Sheezel in a best and fairest has the talent it’s just as i said above commitment.

So can anyone help me with the draft ahead and what small
fwds we will draft. Definitely still
an area of need.

 

[Sentinel]

Maybe JOD will get a well earned promotion to the primary list?

Unless we have our eye on 2 new Category B rookies, there is zero need to do that. O'Donnell can still receive a payrise to be paid the same as if he were on the main list, whilst keeping him as a Cat B rookie which then allows us an additional player on the main or Cat A rookie list.

When list spots are limited it makes no sense to do such unnecessary things.

 

[Dogman 1]

I'm assuming we pick up a DFA now. Need a small forward badly now

I know he's getting on but a good kick for goal etc, anyone think we should grab Rohan for a year or two as a rookie. Good back up.

 

[_Cerberus_]

I know he's getting on but a good kick for goal etc, anyone think we should grab Rohan for a year or two as a rookie. Good back up.

Doesn't pass the no D head test. Been some off field issues with him I believe.