Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[BrisDog]

Calm down there mate. Macca and Daniher as I mentioned are also private school kids but make the travel work.

Maybe sometimes you just need to call a spade a spade and Baz is just a W.

Which Macca and tell me about the journey he made a few times a week?

 

[Doggy Dan]

We had no leverage in the Smith trade because he was uncontracted. On the flipside, we did have leverage in the Daniel trade because of that contract you're complaining about.

If Smith had a contract, we'd have received more than pick 17 + pick swap. If Daniel didn't have a contract, we'd have received less than pick 25.

The Macrae contract was probably a little different because it was worse (and signed off the back of 3 AA seasons).

Wrong…..both these were salary dump trades. Uncontracted both would have been free agents and netted us band 2 compo with the salary and years being paid by the Saints and North

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Wrong…..both these were salary dump trades. Uncontracted both would have been free agents and netted us band 2 compo with the salary and years being paid by the Saints and North

But you're assuming that both players would have gotten free agent contracts to pay them the same amount of money that they're currently due for. No club in the AFL would have, so it wouldn't have been band 2.

 

[Doggy Dan]

But you're assuming that both players would have gotten free agent contracts to pay them the same amount of money that they're currently due for. No club in the AFL would have, so it wouldn't have been band 2.

Hang on, so the clubs who wanted them would have offered them less to bring them in as free agents where they wouldn’t need to use any draft capital?

Logic checks out.

 

[_Cerberus_]

What is the feeling of people here, or those who are in the know?

We draft four players, keep both Keath and Clarke?

Draft four players, keep one of Keath and Clarke, and keep one list spot open for preseason trails?

Draft four players, and keep one or none of Keath and Clarke, and sign a FA or two in the window ahead?

End up drafting more than four players/trade a future pick back into this one because we like this draft a lot?

 

[Snarls Barkley]

It really wouldn't make much sense to me to keep Keath.

We have Jones, Lobb, Busslinger, O'Donnell and Khamis who should definitely be ahead of him. Gardner is still contracted for two more years for some reason. Then even Coffield performed fine as the third tall later in the season when Jones was out and we were only playing the two talls. Just seems an obvious one to replace and take a chance on a younger prospect.

With Clarke, it really wouldn't make much sense to me if we get rid of him. He was awful in the one AFL game he played but he had a good VFL season and plays a position that we are not strong in. Should get another year to see if he can make a jump.

 

[DannyB4]

Wrong…..both these were salary dump trades. Uncontracted both would have been free agents and netted us band 2 compo with the salary and years being paid by the Saints and North

Band 3 Compo (which is what we would realistically get) for us would be around Pick 33-35. Less than what we got for Daniel and about the same as what was given up for Macrae in the end.

What are you still complaining about?

 

[House_of_Dahl]

He’s beautiful View attachment 2146723

Welcome to the club Temu Dunkley

 

[SharkMeister4]

Another side to consider is that there is going to be less distraction for our younger guys with Daniel and Macrae gone. Every week when they took those spots there was a lot of chatter about whether they deserved it or not and there was no doubt additional pressure because of it. This gives blokes like Garcia, Gallagher and Sanders a cleaner run at first team spots without getting hyper analysed for being picked ahead of a former AA.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Hang on, so the clubs who wanted them would have offered them less to bring them in as free agents where they wouldn’t need to use any draft capital?

Logic checks out.

The key difference here is that while they might not have needed to use any draft capital as free agents, there was no guarantee that they would have picked those clubs over any other. By virtue of the trade you're simultaneously guaranteeing them as future contracted players.

North need to lock down players in the trade period as an undesirable club generally, even if that means taking on a badish contract and paying a bit more in a trade, simply because any genuinely free free agent or out of contract player simply doesn't want to play there. Do you think the likes of Bailey Smith or Tom Barrass were ever going to head to the North of this season?

Similar with Saints - they need midfielders. Once can only assume that they would have even preferred Kennedy over Macrae (for much the same reasons that we made the same preference). In essence though Kennedy's demand for game time being preferable was not as critical as Macrae's (he was happy to go to us even with the reduced likelihood of getting picked for a given game than if he went to St Kilda next year), and the fact he will get paid less than Macrae. All for the cost of an 45 to 38 upgrade, we were able to leverage that difference in player preference against St Kilda - the same player preference leverage that lost us Smith for below rates, but also, harms North Melbourne in the wider marketplace generally.

Where's the idea that Daniel would have entertained being a North Melbourne player, at all, if he were a free agent? I doubt he would have.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

What is the feeling of people here, or those who are in the know?

We draft four players, keep both Keath and Clarke?

Draft four players, keep one of Keath and Clarke, and keep one list spot open for preseason trails?

Draft four players, and keep one or none of Keath and Clarke, and sign a FA or two in the window ahead?

End up drafting more than four players/trade a future pick back into this one because we like this draft a lot?

I think we'd still be deep in assessing the quality of the draft and the prospect of pick swaps in either this year or next year's deal, then coming to a decision, as well as speaking to delisted players from other clubs.

If both players are happy to let the club keep them on ice for a few weeks in good faith that they'd make the right footballing decision, they don't have to push the Dogs for a quicker decision.

 

[maddog37]

Keath strikes me as a good man to have in the group.

 

[Doggies7]

Keath strikes me as a good man to have in the group.

Agree but I think we have plenty of those. Would rather give a DFA or VFL guy a spot and let Buss, JOD, Khamis, Gardner (in that order for me) get the AFL games.

 

[Philthy1]

Things are never as bad or good as they seem.

What’s done is done, and we will try to make the best of it moving forward but I don’t think we do ourselves any favours by continually pushing proven talent out the door before their time. Such treatment will be noticed by every player on the list, and most people across the AFL community.

We have just 3 players left from our 2016 premiership team, which was lauded at the time for its youth.

There are now more players from the 2016 team on other AFL lists than we have on our own.

Overall, I think it is clear we have not rewarded sustained good performance appropriately.

If the club doesn’t show loyalty to its players then it cannot expect loyalty from them in return.

You reap what you sow.

Yeah nah.

Unfortunately there is no room for sentiment. This is not a suburban footy league any longer.

Take a look at the premier league. The teams at the top push out great players every year as soon as performance dips and that’s why they stay at the top.

Insisting we hold onto players, as great as their performance WAS consigns us to a LOLNorf future. So what if they are continuing their career elsewhere? Rather that then seeing the play for Abers in the EDFL.

We need to replenish the midfield stocks as the players are aging.

 

[Sid Nullis]

Chook is gone

 

[maddog37]

Chook is gone

Shit. That’s a bad outcome for everyone.

 

[JL Dog]

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Chook is gone

Treloar won’t be too happy..

 

[Bulldog Brent]

Chook is gone

Huh? Who?

 

[Bulldogs85]

Huh? Who?

Charlie Clarke

 

[Proffessor]

Yeah nah.

Unfortunately there is no room for sentiment. This is not a suburban footy league any longer.

Take a look at the premier league. The teams at the top push out great players every year as soon as performance dips and that’s why they stay at the top.

Insisting we hold onto players, as great as their performance WAS consigns us to a LOLNorf future. So what if they are continuing their career elsewhere? Rather that then seeing the play for Abers in the EDFL.

We need to replenish the midfield stocks as the players are aging.

There is no comparison between the AFL, and the premier league soccer which is all about money.

It doesn’t matter what level a sport is being played at if the club doesn’t look after its players they won’t do well.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Find that bizarre

 

[King Harold]

Find that bizarre

To be fair, unfortunately he doesn’t have a lot in his arsenal to make the jump.
I thought he would be lucky to survive.

 

[Philthy1]

There is no comparison between the AFL, and the premier league soccer which is all about money.

It doesn’t matter what level a sport is being played at if the club doesn’t look after its players they won’t do well.

The premier league is a directly relevant comparison as it is a also a professional sports league. Maybe the construct is different in that there is no salary cap, draft, they have promotion / relegation etc. But it is also a high performance sports environment.

If you don’t like that as a comparison try the NFL in America which has many construct similarities with AFL, and the point remains - selection and contracts are based on what you will do not what you have done.

How many Hawks 2015 or Tigers 2017 players are still on their list let alone best 22?

 

[cherrypie]

Good luck to Clarke with whatever he does next in life. Unfortunately his skills and composure were nowhere near AFL quality

 

[threenewpadlocks]

There'd be more under the hood about how his form dropped off at VFL level after he played his game vs. his excellent handful of games at the VFL before he pushed for AFL selection.

A real shame and hope he gets an opportunity elsewhere