Trade/Delistings/List Management 2010 Thread

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Jetta's form at VFL level was good enough for selection. Different positions, roles, horses for courses. It's not hypocritical, it's common sense. Apologies you can't see it as you are throwing blanket rule over it all.

If Myers is being groomed as an inside mid then I see him struggling for games next year unless he makes a dramatic improvement because he needs to push out 5 or 6 blokes.

Jetta almost selects himself for small forward as we are lacking in that department.

Rubbish Kelvin. Did you actually watch any Bendigo games?

Jetta was terrible at VFL level as a small forward yet you were callin for him to be picked in the seniors as a small forward over Davey.

He was barely OK as a defender but this goes against your horses for courses policy anyway, doesn't it?

If Jetta almost selects himself as a small forward why the **** isn't he playing? Do you think the selection committee might be onto something?

Did you see his last game against Fremantle? How did he go up forward? He was absolutely terrible.

Please name the 6 inside mids that Myers needs to push out of the team.

 

[OB1]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Jetta's form at VFL level was good enough for selection. Different positions, roles, horses for courses. It's not hypocritical, it's common sense. Apologies you can't see it as you are throwing blanket rule over it all.

If Myers is being groomed as an inside mid then I see him struggling for games next year unless he makes a dramatic improvement because he needs to push out 5 or 6 blokes.

Jetta almost selects himself for small forward as we are lacking in that department.

We've been lacking in that department for years but as it currently stands Jetta doesn't pick himself because he isn't good enough yet. Hell even Quinn managed more goals this year than Jetta. I think we'd all agree that apart from his defensive work Davey has had a poor year as far as kicking goals yet he has still averaged more than Jetta even did last year when he was given 18 games & its fair to say Jetta has shown very little defensively. No matter which way you look at it the only thing Jetta has going for him is "potential" & hope. There has really been nothing concrete to indicate he will become even a regular player let alone a star. Again let me be clear that I hope he comes good but I just don't have blind optimism.

Just imagine 2 years from now if Yarran is languishing at the Bullants having only played 28 games in 3 years for a return of less than 10 possies per game & only 15 goals. Would we believe the hype if Carlton fans were still talking him up as a rising star or would we point out the obvious that he was struggling?

FWIW I do have some concerns about Myers form this year but he definately showed me more last year than Jetta has at any stage. Having said that, if by this time next year Myers hasn't shown much improvement then I will certainly be annoyed & renew calls for Dodoro's head (I made no secret of my preference for Palmer before the draft).

 

[HULK HOGAN]

Re: Leroy Jetta

I'm not a smartarse am I? :-(

 

[efcboy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Jetta doesn't work hard enough to get the ball during the game. He has better skills than Quinn but less hunger.

Essendon have too many content blokes with not enough hunger or passion - Jetta is one of them and should be shown the door.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Rubbish Kelvin. Did you actually watch any Bendigo games?

Jetta was terrible at VFL level as a small forward yet you were callin for him to be picked in the seniors as a small forward over Davey.

He was barely OK as a defender but this goes against your horses for courses policy anyway, doesn't it?

If Jetta almost selects himself as a small forward why the **** isn't he playing? Do you think the selection committee might be onto something?

Did you see his last game against Fremantle? How did he go up forward? He was absolutely terrible.

Please name the 6 inside mids that Myers needs to push out of the team.

Disagree on Jetta, he hasn't been great I agree but I think there's something to work with... lets move on.

Myers needs to push out Watson, McVeigh, Welsh, Hocking, Lonergan who I think are all ahead of him at the moment. Hocking is my big improver for 2010. Prismall, Stanton, and Winderlich, Dyson are 4 others that might play a little inside also.

Not a lot of room for another mid that is just going at the moment.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Disagree on Jetta, he hasn't been great I agree but I think there's something to work with... lets move on.

I will put this down to you not being able to answer my questions. I'm still also waiting for your answer about Jetta never playing WAFL. I was sure he was drafted from the WAFL.

Myers needs to push out Watson, McVeigh, Welsh, Hocking, Lonergan who I think are all ahead of him at the moment. Hocking is my big improver for 2010. Prismall, Stanton, and Winderlich, Dyson are 4 others that might play a little inside also.

Watson is a star.

Lonergan is not entrenched in the 22 and has been used as a forward because he hasn't come on in the midfield as expected.

McVeigh has been absolutely terrible this season and i would have had him being dropped for Myers if Myders didn't fall injured at the wrong time.

Welsh i will reserve my judgement till next season given his bad injury and lack of pre season but lets make it clear that he has only ever played midfield for a season or so and generally gets a tagging role. Different sort of role if you ask me.

Stanton, Winderlich and Dyson are not inside players, Prismall can be both.

Why do you think everyone is crying out for us to draft or trade for an inside midfielder if we have so many of them that are doing so well? The fact is we don't and the ones we do have have not done enough to help out Jobe. We desperately need another good inside mid to take some of the workload. This tells me that Myers cannot be so far away from getting a chance to show what he can do.

And i will say this with certainty - Myers will be given a chance to prove himself inthe midfield next season regardless of how may mids we have running aound. You might not like it but it will happen. Then we will have a better idea about whether or not he can play in the midfield. I reckon he will go alright. The most impressive thing he has shown us to date is the grunt work he does in packs and his strong body work. This will hold him in good stead.

Responses above

 

[yodellinhank]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Why are people defending this dud

Probably because the knockers are not offering much of substance other than "oh he's sh!t, trade/delist". So too, apparently: Williams, Nash, Laycock, Atko, NLM, and Skippy.

If you were to take in all of the negativity, we'd be making at the least 7 changes to our list this year, not including any trades. I don't know that we could find a potentially better player than Jetta in Round 7 of the draft.

So some of us decide to hold onto hope that he can develop, the way others (Davis, Tambling) have.

To look at another comparison, more close to home:

3rd Season Approx averages:

_____________Year____Games Kicks___Marks___H.Balls___Disp___Tack
Ricky Dyson___2006_____17____7.3_____2.3______5.8___13.2____1.6
Jobe Watson___2005_____5____4.6_____2.8______6.4____11____ 1.0
Leroy Jetta____2009_____6____5.8______2_______ 6.3___12.1____2.5

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Probably because the knockers are not offering much of substance other than "oh he's sh!t, trade/delist

Love the way you lump everyone in together. I have given many reasons why i don't rate him yet all i seem to be getting in return is "But he has potential" or "But Leon Davis was shit at the same age". I have also countered this weak, lame arguments but got nothing back.

. So too, apparently: Williams, Nash, Laycock, Atko, NLM, and Skippy.

Nash is a spud. I said this 2 years ago when everyone was raving on about how good he was.

Skipworth was a mistake but i doubt he will be given the arse after 1 season. I also said at the time it was a mistake ti draft him, we should have just kept Pev on the list. He was a better player than Skippy.

Laycock is required, important player.

Atko has shown enough for us to hang onto.

NLM is a depth player, handy now but will be lucky to play in our next flag.

Williams goneski.

Lucas, Nash, Jetta, Williams are the 4 changes i would make.

We should try get something for Jetta now as opposed to him spending another season playing for Bendigo then being delisted. If the Lovett talk is true we might be able to package them together to get a better deal.

If you were to take in all of the negativity, we'd be making at the least 7 changes to our list this year, not including any trades. I don't know that we could find a potentially better player than Jetta in Round 7 of the draft.

Can i ask you what are the attributes that impress you with Jetta? All of the players being mentioned as comparisons such as Davis, Tambling, Johnson, Lovett etc were either already good players by their 3rd years or atleast shown enough to suggest they would be. Jetta has shown nothing and his so called weapons are firing blanks. Where is his so called pace? Where are his great evasive skills? Where is his knack of kicking goals? Atleast give us a glimse Leroy.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Responses above

iirc Jetta wasn't playing WAFL seniors. I could be wrong and I can't be arsed looking it up.

As for Myers, he has shown nothing to displace any of the midfielders that I mentioned. In fact Hocking has shown enough for me this year to suggest he'll be our second best inside mid within 2 years.

The others are ahead of him and he's playing catch up. We need him or Hocking or even Lonergan to take a step up next year. I'm banking on Hocking flying past Lonergan and Myers. It's a battle between Sammy and Myers for a spot and I think Lonergan might be good enough to nudge Myers out.

As for Jetta his kicking is very very good. His ability to spot up a teammate is also very good. His handballing always falls into the stride of our players. His skills are there. Easier to fix the other parts than to fix a wonky kick.

Personally I think it will start to come together for him next year. The year after is when he'll really start to make an impact.

 

[yodellinhank]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Can i ask you what are the attributes that impress you with Jetta? All of the players being mentioned as comparisons such as Davis, Tambling, Johnson, Lovett etc were either already good players by their 3rd years or atleast shown enough to suggest they would be. Jetta has shown nothing and his so called weapons are firing blanks. Where is his so called pace? Where are his great evasive skills? Where is his knack of kicking goals? Atleast give us a glimse Leroy.

And its a fair question. My point was only that statistically for a 3rd year player he stacks up with the aforementioned players. TBH I didn't see any value in Ricky Dyson until this season.

With Lucas retiring, I see us de-listing 2-3 players depending on trade week. Atkinson, Jetta, Laycock, Nash and Williams are probably the group the club would be looking at. Nash almost certainly goes. Williams would be another player on the block. Laycock more than likely stays after the ruck debacle this season. I guess that leaves Jetta and Atko fighting it out in my book for the last spot if indeed we delist another player. NLM, T-Bell, Houli, and Skippy would be unlikely axings and i don't know much about contract situations of the players i've mentioned. If we trade a player out for a pick, then that could be one less spot we'll be vacating on our list.

If I was arguing against keeping Leroy, the point I would raise is that with Lloyd and Fletch likely departures next year, we will probably also be making decisions on any number of Laycock, Jetta, Atko, Hocking, Skippy, Quinn, NLM, DD, Tyson Slattery, T-Bell and worst case scenario McVeigh. The club will probably be taking this into consideration, and may prefer to take 5 picks this year rather than many picks next year.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

iirc Jetta wasn't playing WAFL seniors. I could be wrong and I can't be arsed looking it up.

TBH I have no idea about this. I just always assumed he did.

As for Myers, he has shown nothing to displace any of the midfielders that I mentioned. In fact Hocking has shown enough for me this year to suggest he'll be our second best inside mid within 2 years.

How do you know this? How many times did you watch him play in the guts for Bendigo? You are an advocate of this horses for courses policy but you need to back up what you are saying. What did you dislike about his games playing in the guts? Most people that have seen hikm have been very impressed and are now quietly confident that he mind find himself in this role for next season. I'm interested to know what you saw that leads you to think otherwise.

The others are ahead of him and he's playing catch up. We need him or Hocking or even Lonergan to take a step up next year. I'm banking on Hocking flying past Lonergan and Myers. It's a battle between Sammy and Myers for a spot and I think Lonergan might be good enough to nudge Myers out.

Of course other are ahead right now. If they weren't Myers would have been playing in the midfield this season. Similiar to Jetta and the forward pocket except for the fact that Jetta has stuff all competition and still can't get in front of others. Next season things might be different. I'm expecting decent improvement from Myers next season given his Bendogo form.

As for Jetta his kicking is very very good. His ability to spot up a teammate is also very good. His handballing always falls into the stride of our players. His skills are there. Easier to fix the other parts than to fix a wonky kick.

Disagree strongly. His kick is handy at best, very very good is a huge overstatment. It lacks any sort of penetration and his set shot kicking is below par, well below par.

His 2 biggest weapons worry me a lot. His pace is not what people make it out to be and this is evident when he tries to use his second weapon, his evasive skills. How often does he get caught or have to back track when trying to burst around a player? They run him down far too easily. Quicker players have the ability to use pace to get around an opponent, not Leroy. The only person he seems to be confusing when he tries his tricks is himself.

Personally I think it will start to come together for him next year. The year after is when he'll really start to make an impact

You know what, i hope you are right! I would love nothing more than seeing him tearing it up for us. I am usually a pretty good judge of players and i can't see it happening with Jetta. Two years ago i said Nash would not make it, right at the time when everyone was on his wagon. I look like being right. I said Michael was a liability and needs to be dropped and then retired. I was right. I said that Dyson will turn the corner and repay the faith Knights showed in him, everyone said Dyson should have been delisted. I'm also happy to go on record saying that Myers will become a very important and good player for us and Jetta will not make it past 2010.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

And its a fair question. My point was only that statistically for a 3rd year player he stacks up with the aforementioned players. TBH I didn't see any value in Ricky Dyson until this season.

TBH i didn't pay too much attention to the stats of mentioned players. I simpky went on how i rated them in their early seasons and what i saw in them. They all had tricks and genuine weapons. Tambling was one of the slowest to develop yet from the word go you couldn't help but notice his explosive pace, lovely kicking skills, and beautiful skills when the ball is at his feet. I can give you examples for all of these players if you need them. With Jetta i don't see any of this.

Even Ricky Dyson showed more and i was one of the people defending him in years gone by. You could see his great gut busting runs, long penetrating kicking and most of all endevour. He needed someone to back him. Knights did and he hasn't looked back.

With Lucas retiring, I see us de-listing 2-3 players depending on trade week. Atkinson, Jetta, Laycock, Nash and Williams are probably the group the club would be looking at. Nash almost certainly goes. Williams would be another player on the block. Laycock more than likely stays after the ruck debacle this season. I guess that leaves Jetta and Atko fighting it out in my book for the last spot if indeed we delist another player. NLM, T-Bell, Houli, and Skippy would be unlikely axings and i don't know much about contract situations of the players i've mentioned. If we trade a player out for a pick, then that could be one less spot we'll be vacating on our list.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Leroy should be delisted this year. I'm saying we should shop him about and try and get something for him if we can. If not we hang onto him and give him another chance. I'm pretty certain he is contracted anyway.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

You know what, i hope you are right! I would love nothing more than seeing him tearing it up for us. I am usually a pretty good judge of players and i can't see it happening with Jetta. Two years ago i said Nash would not make it, right at the time when everyone was on his wagon. I look like being right. I said Michael was a liability and needs to be dropped and then retired. I was right. I said that Dyson will turn the corner and repay the faith Knights showed in him, everyone said Dyson should have been delisted. I'm also happy to go on record saying that Myers will become a very important and good player for us and Jetta will not make it past 2010.

For me Jetta and Myers are 50/50 to make it. Bottom line with draft concessions and us having a few older guys that might be gone, Jetta needs to be given another 2 years to develop - possibly 3.

My concern with Myers is his kicking is really poor and he takes an eternity to put it on boot. The way the game is played now it's very cramped and congested, you are closed down quickly and it's hard to get clear kicks out. You need to be able to move sideways and spot up someone in a flash.

I did not see him play but from speaking to people and reading reports his form was mixed. Yes he did get it a bit but he was still slow and his kicking not great. And any Bendigo form should almost be dismissed in regards to AFL.

I think we'll get a good handle on both in the NAB cup. If they fail to fire a shot then warning bells will be sounding.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

For me Jetta and Myers are 50/50 to make it. Bottom line with draft concessions and us having a few older guys that might be gone, Jetta needs to be given another 2 years to develop - possibly 3.

My concern with Myers is his kicking is really poor and he takes an eternity to put it on boot. The way the game is played now it's very cramped and congested, you are closed down quickly and it's hard to get clear kicks out. You need to be able to move sideways and spot up someone in a flash.

I did not see him play but from speaking to people and reading reports his form was mixed. Yes he did get it a bit but he was still slow and his kicking not great. And any Bendigo form should almost be dismissed in regards to AFL.

I think we'll get a good handle on both in the NAB cup. If they fail to fire a shot then warning bells will be sounding.

So how long does Myers get? 3-4 more years?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

So how long does Myers get? 3-4 more years?

About another 2 years but it's not that simple. You'd hope that they cement a spot in the side after 4 years but if they show something then you might hold onto them for 6 or so.

I think Jetta should be offered a bit more time due to his size and physical limitations.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Get it in your ****ing head. Jetta is biggest pile of shit i've seen wear an Essendon jumper. His soft and overated. All he does dance around on the spot and doesn't have a defensive bone in his body.

Guess we've spotted Cawshezy again.

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

About another 2 years but it's not that simple. You'd hope that they cement a spot in the side after 4 years but if they show something then you might hold onto them for 6 or so.

I think Jetta should be offered a bit more time due to his size and physical limitations.

But it generally takes taller KP type sized players a lot longer to develop. Shouldn't we afford Myers atleast the same amount of time as Jetta if not more?

You do realise Jetta isn't gonna get any bigger don't you?

 

[OB1]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Probably because the knockers are not offering much of substance other than "oh he's sh!t, trade/delist". So too, apparently: Williams, Nash, Laycock, Atko, NLM, and Skippy.

If you were to take in all of the negativity, we'd be making at the least 7 changes to our list this year, not including any trades. I don't know that we could find a potentially better player than Jetta in Round 7 of the draft.

So some of us decide to hold onto hope that he can develop, the way others (Davis, Tambling) have.

To look at another comparison, more close to home:

3rd Season Approx averages:

_____________Year____Games Kicks___Marks___H.Balls___Disp___Tack
Ricky Dyson___2006_____17____7.3_____2.3______5.8___13.2____1.6
Jobe Watson___2005_____5____4.6_____2.8______6.4____11____ 1.0
Leroy Jetta____2009_____6____5.8______2_______ 6.3___12.1____2.5

Watson was plagued by injuries early on & by the same age as Jetta is (21) Jobe was averaging over 22 per game. As for Dyson, even though he's had a good year I don't think its reasonable to expect the club to hang on to every draft pick for 6 years before we get some return. Jetta has a contract for next year so we aren't going to delist him but if we can get some value from trading him then we should look at it. If he doesn't improve dramatically next year then he should be shown the door. One of the great mistakes this club has made over the last decade is not only drafting poorly but hanging on to poor performing players for far too long.

 

[Bombers1234]

Re: Leroy Jetta

But it generally takes taller KP type sized players a lot longer to develop. Shouldn't we afford Myers atleast the same amount of time as Jetta if not more?

You do realise Jetta isn't gonna get any bigger don't you?

I don't see any difference in Watson and Jetta's start to their careers. You could see nothing in Watson's physical attributes that would suggest a solid AFL career, same with Jetta.

But we persisted with Watson because of his football ability and natural talent which he showed in his junior days. So why can't we do the same with Leroy? You dont go in the top 20 of a superdraft for nothing.

 

[Kong]

Re: Leroy Jetta

Guess we've spotted Cawshezy again.

Yep. Goorrrrne!

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Leroy Jetta

I don't see any difference in Watson and Jetta's start to their careers. You could see nothing in Watson's physical attributes that would suggest a solid AFL career, same with Jetta.

But we persisted with Watson because of his football ability and natural talent which he showed in his junior days. So why can't we do the same with Leroy? You dont go in the top 20 of a superdraft for nothing.

Are you serious? You didn't notice his unique attribute of being able to extract the pill almost at will? Watson had all the hallmarks of being a star at the same stage of their careers. He was averaging 23 disposals a game despite the fact that he was overweight, unfit, and only getting very minmal gametime. I had already claimed him as Essendon's next skipper by this stage. Not sure what you've been watching to see similiarities between the two.

This is without even getting into the fact that Watson could not get on the park in the early stages due to being plagued by constant injuries.

One of the biggest cases of chalk and cheese you will find.

 

[yaco55]

Re: Leroy Jetta

I know Leroy fairly well having had a bit to do with him as a junior and the occasional interaction with him since he was drafted and moved to Melbourne.

I'm hesitant to say too much, I'm probably biased, but I think some judgements should be reserved at least until this time next year, if I had my way probably the year after.

Leroy arrived at the club a fair way behind the 8-ball in regard to fitness and had the groin flair up fairly early on in the piece. Despite coming back and playing some football that year, it was virtually a write off. Prior to last year his fitness definitely improved aerobically, but anaerobically he was still weak in my opinion and if anyone saw some of the repeat sprints they were doing at training, Leroy was lagging. In the 20m sprint test, on the other hand, he was right out in front.

He ended up playing 18 games, but aside from the 3 weeks he missed to a hammy, he didn't actually get a week off until Round 21, having played for Bendigo in the split round. I don't think he was really in a position to do that and I think he finished the season fairly exhausted and had the further setback of shoulder surgery.

I think that transferred into this year in that I don't think he started the year in good enough shape relative to a number of other guys on the list and I think that translated onto his football in the pre-season, and falling out of a side in which there was selection pressure wasn't ideal. I thought he was very unlucky to miss out after the Geelong game and after that he kept getting pushed down the queue despite not playing badly at Bendigo, or as well as he probably could in that side.

I think Leroy comes into this pre-season in the best knick he's been in and if he can see it out I think we'll see a lot more of what he can do, and I think we'll see a rapid improvement, especially in his ability to accelerate.

If he can settle into the side, I think we'll see the trademark evasive skills from his junior days and a player much more confident to utilise his outstanding vision on the ground and silky skills, despite some ordinary showings at AFL level, he's actually a very nice kick.

I think he's probably 2 pre-seasons off being at his best and I certainly hope we persist, because, having watched his junior career closely as I have many others, this kid's got some serious tricks.

A further question.

My understanding of Jetta's situation is that he was a gun at under 16's - probably in the best 3 or 4 players in australia, fell back to the pack in the under 18's - which is why he was drafted at 18.

His progress has stagnated since the Under 16's.

 

[yaco55]

Re: Leroy Jetta

For me Jetta and Myers are 50/50 to make it. Bottom line with draft concessions and us having a few older guys that might be gone, Jetta needs to be given another 2 years to develop - possibly 3.

My concern with Myers is his kicking is really poor and he takes an eternity to put it on boot. The way the game is played now it's very cramped and congested, you are closed down quickly and it's hard to get clear kicks out. You need to be able to move sideways and spot up someone in a flash.

I did not see him play but from speaking to people and reading reports his form was mixed. Yes he did get it a bit but he was still slow and his kicking not great. And any Bendigo form should almost be dismissed in regards to AFL.

I think we'll get a good handle on both in the NAB cup. If they fail to fire a shot then warning bells will be sounding.

Kelvin

Myers will be given every chance to prove himself in 2010 - Most probably as a midfielder/clearance player. He is talented at clearances and believe it or not at extracting the ball from contested situations.

Jetta's progress has stagnated since the Under 16's. Jetta was in the best 3 or 4 players in this age group. The Jury is undecided whether he will make a good AFL player. The club may see what offers Jetta attracts in the trading period - but is more likely to stay.

Myers is more likely to make it than Jetta - although I hope that both players players make good AFL players.

 

[OB1]

Re: Leroy Jetta

You dont go in the top 20 of a superdraft for nothing.

Hislop was top 20 in that same draft - has he shown anything to suggest that this automatically qualifies him as a future player?

Lets look at some of the top 20 from the 2001 draft which has actually proven to be a very good draft. You don't have to look that far as again Essendon had pick 18 & the name Shane Harvey appears. How much longer did you need to work out the bloke was soft? Although there's some outright guns in that top 20 here's some of the other picks - Polak, X Clarke, Sampi, Molan, Power, Watson, Brooks, Elstone & who could forget Richie Cole. WOW thats half the top 20 of the best draft in memory that have not fulfilled their promise after being drafted in the top 20. Jetta certainly won't be the first top 20 pick we've stuffed up. His draft position rightfully means we expect more but it doesn't mean anything when they get to the club & need to actually perform. We shouldn't hold on to dead wood for longer just because we made the mistake of drafting them early. If Jetta doesn't improve next year he should be cut.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Re: Leroy Jetta

But it generally takes taller KP type sized players a lot longer to develop. Shouldn't we afford Myers atleast the same amount of time as Jetta if not more?

You do realise Jetta isn't gonna get any bigger don't you?

Myers has played half back and midfield in afl and juniors. His size should allow him to compete better than he has at the moment. He would have monstered most at junior level due to his physical attributes. A fair few draft watchers(not Ant) noted that Myers should make a quicker transition to AFL than others.

Jetta's not going to get much bigger but he'll develop the strength to compete. He is suffering from what Dyson and Monfries suffered in the first few years. The repeat efforts in their legs don't allow them to compete and they look slow at times.