List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

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With Howe, Scharenberg and Goldsack on the list i'd be comfortable trading out Langdon. I like Langdon but I don't feel he will ever develop the kind of urgency he needs to take his game to the next level. It's not just when disposing of the ball but he gets caught out of position often and doesn't have any hustle to make it up even when he could make it if he was desperate enough.

I feel given his current numbers and form he'd appeal to a few clubs like Melbourne, Essendon, Saints and Gold Coast. I reckon we could get a second rounder for him which would be quite handy for us and assist the rebuild. We're already strong by his position and could easily draft in Sam Walker or Hore as cheap replacements. Both those guys add footskills to the equation too.
 
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Quicky said:
With Howe, Scharenberg and Goldsack on the list i'd be comfortable trading out Langdon. I like Langdon but I don't feel he will ever develop the kind of urgency he needs to take his game to the next level. It's not just when disposing of the ball but he gets caught out of position often and doesn't have any hustle to make it up even when he could make it if he was desperate enough.

I feel given his current numbers and form he'd appeal to a few clubs like Melbourne, Essendon, Saints and Gold Coast. I reckon we could get a second rounder for him which would be quite handy for us and assist the rebuild. We're already strong by his position and could easily draft in Sam Walker or Marty Hore as cheap replacements. Both those guys add footskills to the equation too.
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Yep I also don't think he has the hurt factor going the other way either.
 

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nahnah said:
Players I would trade for:
Lynch
McGovern
Lever (As long as he doesn't earn over 700k)


Players I would sign:
Rockliff
Savage

Players used for bait:
Aish
Broomhead
Sidebottom
Langdon

Basically trade for a KPP, try pick up Rockliff as a free agent.
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Just a little off topic but why haven't Hine and Rendell found us a McGovern?

Seriously bad list management IMO.
 
CrouchPowa said:
I have a really reasonable trade plan:

Adelaide
OUT: Lever
IN: Nothing

Collingwood
OUT: Password to Emirates Airline discount (PM'd)
IN: Lever

Any takers? Could throw a like your way to sweeten the deal too... ;)
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Make it McGovern instead
 
CFC2010 said:
Just a little off topic but why haven't Hine and Rendell found us a McGovern?

Seriously bad list management IMO.
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Last year there were three "McGovern" types drafted just after our second pick. We selected nostalgia instead. The real kicker is that we had another second round pick that we could of used but instead on-traded it for Aish.
 
SpongePie said:
This forum was going to melt down if we didn't pick up Brown and Daicos.
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I think we got them about what they were worth.

With Brown we were matching a bid, and he came around, or later, than draft reports. The decision for him was always gonna be whether we would use our first to match a pick if needed - we didnt need to, which should be seen as a success.

The Daicos pick was just a matter of do we use that 4th pick, was there anyone else we wanted still on the board, or do we just let him drop to the rookie draft? (And what would we have done if his name wasnt Daicos?)
I had no problem with using our last pick because its really a neglible difference between that and a rookie pick.

And at the end of the day, ignoring their names, despite really having only late picks, we were able to fill needs with that draft - a good young KPD and two young SFs... hopefully time shows them to be good picks.
---

You cant compare to succesful late picks.
They are all very hit and miss - with a high likelihood of missing.
Both McGovern boys were Freo supporters - and their recruiters were well aware of them, with some around the club (paul haselby apparently one) really lobbying for it. The scouts obviously didn't see what they wanted. Can you call it a mistake? Or do you say thats just how scouting works? You try the best you can, but you cant predict the future, and in each case 17 other clubs let them slip.

And us picking up Kirby is exactly the kind of pick people complain we dont make - a "natural footballer" without really the athletic abilities or body-type to suggest that he was anywhere near ready for AFL level.
And you know what - 6 months ago half of this board was calling out the club for "wasting" that pick!

You just can't win with some people. I dread to go back and ready what everyone here wouldve said about Dane Swan in his first couple of years at the club.
 

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didaksrightfoot Brown isn't a small forward and never will be. On a needs basis it was a bad selection. On a popularity with fans basis it was a winning call. Hine was painted into a corner with it.

Of all our national draftees he's the one that concerns me because I just don't see a need for a small mid that isn't an effective kick and isn't ultra competitive on our list.
 
Scodog10 said:
didaksrightfoot Brown isn't a small forward and never will be. On a needs basis it was a bad selection. On a popularity with fans basis it was a winning call. Hine was painted into a corner with it.

Of all our national draftees he's the one that concerns me because I just don't see a need for a small mid that isn't an effective kick and isn't ultra competitive on our list.
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I'm referring to Daicos and Kirby.

I don't have a problem with the Brown selection. He's the kind of guy many talked about being a 1st rounder if he was a couple of inches taller. These guys sometimes work out and sometimes they don't. Also of all our draft selection (ND and RD) unless you include bringing back Josh Thomas, Brown was our only mid. Given that around half of your best 18-22 need to be midfielders (or run through there) , I don't think its bad business using 1-2 picks just to add some depth, whilst using the others to fill those key positions. (and again - given our lower picks, we were never gonna be able to pick up any particularly highly rated KPP's, which was our real need).
 
didaksrightfoot said:
I'm referring to Daicos and Kirby.

I don't have a problem with the Brown selection. He's the kind of guy many talked about being a 1st rounder if he was a couple of inches taller. These guys sometimes work out and sometimes they don't. Also of all our draft selection (ND and RD) unless you include bringing back Josh Thomas, Brown was our only mid. Given that around half of your best 18-22 need to be midfielders (or run through there) , I don't think its bad business using 1-2 picks just to add some depth, whilst using the others to fill those key positions. (and again - given our lower picks, we were never gonna be able to pick up any particularly highly rated KPP's, which was our real need).
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Same page now re types :thumbsu:

You never trade or draft for depth is all I think I can add. It's the sort of mindset that will see us as mid table stragglers for the next five years.
 
mike123 said:
Can we get someone who moves the ball forward with purpose
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be against Duryea compared to Smtih.
He can definitely kick a footy- laser sharp- and not just sideways or backwards like Smith.

He is also harder at the ball and can ride a bump or take one unlike Smith who avoids any kind of physical contact yet is playing in the back half?
 
Scodog10 said:
Same page now re types :thumbsu:

You never trade or draft for depth is all I think I can add. It's the sort of mindset that will see us as mid table stragglers for the next five years.
Click to expand...

Realistically any pick after the 1st round is gonna be either a "depth" player or a "potential" guy with big ? marks ovet him... or some combination of the two.
(I would argue that Brown fits both categories. He is "depth" at the moment - but if he becomes enough of a hard nut that could negate his size problems)
 
nahnah said:
Players I would trade for:
Lynch
McGovern
Lever (As long as he doesn't earn over 700k)


Players I would sign:
Rockliff
Savage

Players used for bait:
Aish
Broomhead
Sidebottom
Langdon

Basically trade for a KPP, try pick up Rockliff as a free agent.
Click to expand...

If we're picking up Rockliff as a free agent then surely Taylor Adams is on the trade table. Might have decent value to a team lacking an inside mid
 
didaksrightfoot said:
Realistically any pick after the 1st round is gonna be either a "depth" player or a "potential" guy with big ? marks ovet him... or some combination of the two.
(I would argue that Brown fits both categories. He is "depth" at the moment - but if he becomes enough of a hard nut that could negate his size problems)
Click to expand...

IMO, that's factually incorrect based on your comments that we filled needs with three of our picks. None of McLarty, Kirby or Daicos were drafted to be depth and all were taken outside the first round. Yes they all have potential, but as you said they were needs based.

I think Brown, despite his limitations, can make it he's just not a good fit at Collingwood. If the best we can say to support his selection is that he was drafted as depth it's not a good sign.
 
didaksrightfoot said:
I think we got them about what they were worth.

With Brown we were matching a bid, and he came around, or later, than draft reports. The decision for him was always gonna be whether we would use our first to match a pick if needed - we didnt need to, which should be seen as a success.

The Daicos pick was just a matter of do we use that 4th pick, was there anyone else we wanted still on the board, or do we just let him drop to the rookie draft? (And what would we have done if his name wasnt Daicos?)
I had no problem with using our last pick because its really a neglible difference between that and a rookie pick.

And at the end of the day, ignoring their names, despite really having only late picks, we were able to fill needs with that draft - a good young KPD and two young SFs... hopefully time shows them to be good picks.
---

You cant compare to succesful late picks.
They are all very hit and miss - with a high likelihood of missing.
Both McGovern boys were Freo supporters - and their recruiters were well aware of them, with some around the club (paul haselby apparently one) really lobbying for it. The scouts obviously didn't see what they wanted. Can you call it a mistake? Or do you say thats just how scouting works? You try the best you can, but you cant predict the future, and in each case 17 other clubs let them slip.

And us picking up Kirby is exactly the kind of pick people complain we dont make - a "natural footballer" without really the athletic abilities or body-type to suggest that he was anywhere near ready for AFL level.
And you know what - 6 months ago half of this board was calling out the club for "wasting" that pick!

You just can't win with some people. I dread to go back and ready what everyone here wouldve said about Dane Swan in his first couple of years at the club.
Click to expand...

SpongePie said:
This forum was going to melt down if we didn't pick up Brown and Daicos.
Click to expand...
Therein lies the issue. Whether we got Brown for market price is irrelevant as soon as he walks through the door. His true value is what he is worth to a Collingwood team and as Sco mentioned, his type wasn't a need for us.

To me, Aish was one of those trades where club hubris got in the way of sound trading. It was well known Hine had a crush on him in his draft year and once we convinced him to nominate us, there was no way the club was going to swallow it's pride and back out of the deal. It got to a point where the club had to trump North Melbourne's deal and through stubbornness and ego we gave away a 2016 second round pick.

Which brings me back to the first point. Yeah, the likelihood of a later round KP player becoming a success is questionable. Last year if we weren't nostalgic and stubborn, we could of drafted three of them in the second round. I'm more than comfortable with the odds of one in three KP players being a success.
 
I've read on here we should trade Langdon and Reid. I think both have merit. Cox is a big factor in deciding to trade Reid. Can Cox play in the same team as Grundy? Is his best position ruck pinch hitting forward? Does he have more currency on the market than Reid? I would say about the same, if we trade Cox or Reid to say the Dogs, I'd want to come out of it with a future first, a second to a first. Obviously we need to trade to get into the second round so that needs to be considered. That said I'd prefer to part ways with Reid as Cox is ready to break out.

I'd also look to trade Langdon if we got Lever as he's surplus, not sure of his value, I think it's more than a second but not a first, so a second with some pick upgrades.

But, the draw-back of this trade is that despite Schaz showing form what if we trade Langdon and Schaz gets another serious injury?

Still I think the thought has merit. I'd consider Reid and Langdon as trades if we bring in Lever. Also our midfield isn't as stacked as we'd hoped with Broomhead and Aish not coming on as expected, that said, Broomhead and Aish could have break-out years next year, the talent remains there for all to see.
Keep Ramsay unless he wants to be traded as he's coming off an ACL recovery year.

As far as future firsts go, I'd look at gaining Swans, Giants, Toast, Dogs etc as these are the sides that might look to trade one considering they are in window mode. Don't think we've been a big enough threat for a while now for clubs to puff their chests when it comes to trading with us at the trade table either.
 
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Let's draft best key forward in market
 
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