List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[Mongo Ming]

On no the forum just changed, did it not? I can't deal!

I think it just turned into MySpace

 

[unplugged]

Try being on strong pain killers all week and then look at it. It is wack!

I already had a headache, now I'm tempted to stay off until I know it's definitely changing. And the big green reply icon just got in the way of the reply I'm already writing!

 

[Unknown Identity]

This is not a change for the better.

After this Chief has to be on the trade table.

 

[wicksy]

You think Carlton can make finals next year?

It's very unlikely we'll add any substantial personel.
Where is the improvement going to come from to win the extra 5 games?

I love your optimism, i just can't see it.
Too many butchers, poor ball movement and very very few 4 quarter performances.

I can't be stuffed going into a lot of detail on this but there were a lot of games this year that we should have won.

GWS, Adelaide, QB.... All games we were well in front and choked.
We should have also beaten Carlton.

I can't think of many games (apart from the Carlton match, anzac day and the port games) that we weren't in up to our eyeballs.
A 5% increase of performance and we will easily win the extra 5 games needed to play finals.
This will hopefully just come from growth of our youth.. DeGoey, Philips, Moore, Scharenberg, Maynard, Daicos, Kirby, Brown.
There's plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

 

[Horaceg]

After all the calls for change on this Board I thought it would have been embraced

 

[wicksy]

I already said he can turn into a decent player but your arguments again have nothing to do with his ceiling.

Those other players who turn it over make up for it in other attributes, unfortunately Tom is one paced outside player he can't afford to turn it over.

What is ceiling anyway? What we guess is somebody's potential.
Let's just accept that neither of us have any idea what any player's actual ceiling is.

Would you have guessed that Dane Swan's ceiling was a brownlow in his first 3-4 years?

 

[Horaceg]

I can't be stuffed going into a lot of detail on this but there were a lot of games this year that we should have won.

GWS, Adelaide, QB.... All games we were well in front and choked.
We should have also beaten Carlton.

I can't think of many games (apart from the Carlton match, anzac day and the port games) that we weren't in up to our eyeballs.
A 5% increase of performance and we will easily win the extra 5 games needed to play finals.
This will hopefully just come from growth of our youth.. DeGoey, Philips, Moore, Scharenberg, Maynard, Daicos, Kirby, Brown.
There's plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

Agree

 

[wicksy]

Yes, but McGrath was rarely beaten 1v1, took on and beat some of the best small forwards in the league. You'd hardly expect him to go chasing kicks as a 1st year player charged with minding players of the ilk of Eddie Betts.

Like to see some stats for Phillips opponents and what they average against him.

McGrath was 1 example. I don't have time to provide another but feel free to do your own research.
Point is, he's going into his 3rd pre-season. Give the kid a break ffs.

 

[Mongo Ming]

Good news.. if you go to the bottom of the thread page there is a style chooser.. where you can pick from 4 indentical styles that make no difference whatsoever

 

[Apex36]

Try being on strong pain killers all week and then look at it. It is wack!

I need strong painkillers for the damage my eyes are currently sustaining.

 

[jackcass]

McGrath was 1 example. I don't have time to provide another but feel free to do your own research.
Point is, he's going into his 3rd pre-season. Give the kid a break ffs.

I've given him 2 years.

 

[Anzacday]

Well done Mongo Ming.
They trialled it with us Mods and I stuck with the original version, (each to their own though).

 

[mike123]

What is ceiling anyway? What we guess is somebody's potential.
Let's just accept that neither of us have any idea what any player's actual ceiling is.

Would you have guessed that Dane Swan's ceiling was a brownlow in his first 3-4 years?

You're right we have no idea what's his potential is, for all we know he might turn into a 100 goal key forward or a 40 buyout per game ruckman.

 

[Scodog10]

Mark mcgough also found alot of the ball

He did, but he was an inside mid so irrelevant to this discussion, IMO.

Smith is the nearest by type because he can find the pill easily, has a good engine and is exclusively outside. The difference for me between the two is competitiveness Phillips' is ok and Smith is limited in that area plus Phillips' first instinct is usually straight ahead or corridor whereas Smith's is always sideways.

The interesting point for me is Phillips lack of left footer instinct. Most left footers that run to receive and then collect running on their right foot cut in instantly whereas it doesn't seem as instinctive to Phillips. IMO, if he can work on that area of his game the field will open up to him much more and he'll start hitting those angle kicks into the corridor and I50.

 

[westozpie]

I can't be stuffed going into a lot of detail on this but there were a lot of games this year that we should have won.

GWS, Adelaide, QB.... All games we were well in front and choked.
We should have also beaten Carlton.

I can't think of many games (apart from the Carlton match, anzac day and the port games) that we weren't in up to our eyeballs.
A 5% increase of performance and we will easily win the extra 5 games needed to play finals.
This will hopefully just come from growth of our youth.. DeGoey, Philips, Moore, Scharenberg, Maynard, Daicos, Kirby, Brown.
There's plenty of reasons to be optimistic.

You are correct wicksy. We did a lot wrong on match days yet were in so many games. As you say a small improvement in our skills and execution of game plan, the continued improvement in our many players in that early 20s age group and I think Moore, Elliott and DeGoey will be massive next year. Eagles, Port, Essendon I think will drop from the 8

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I think it just turned into MySpace

View attachment 418521

 

[wicksy]

I've given him 2 years.

If it were up to you, we'd never have Dane Swan in full flight.

 

[Mark W]

Yeah he turns it over every now and then but so does Jack Crisp, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Steele Sidebottom etc etc.

And therein lies our problem!! What you say is broadly true, Phillips disposal is probably no worse then Adams, Treloar, Crisp and Greenwood. But that is NOT a good thing or an argument in Phillips favour. Quite the contrary, its an indictment on why he is not that useful a player for us! We are a team who generally win the contests, win the inside 50s, but our conversion once inside 50 is one of the worst in the league, and that is why we just finished 13th. Why? Well one of the main reasons is that we have too many blokes who can't hit the side of a barn. Too many who can't lower the eyes, pinpoint our forwards, kick it to our advantage. That is why our win:loss ratio is so much better with Wells in the team, he is one bloke who can use the pill.

So I am afraid Phillips just exacerbates our major problem: poor ball use. For me Treloar and Adams are selection locks, but after that, how many other poor disposers can you afford to have in the team? Crisp, Greenwood and Phillips are all handy players, but we just can't afford to play all 3 of em, unless we are happy with 13th on the ladder...Id argue we really have to make a choice and only play one of em...

 

[unplugged]

Good news.. if you go to the bottom of the thread page there is a style chooser.. where you can pick from 4 indentical styles that make no difference whatsoever
View attachment 418523

At first I was like yay, then I was like ffs

 

[Soups]

Ahhh back to normal that's better.

 

[jackcass]

If it were up to you, we'd never have Dane Swan in full flight.

Happy for you to show me where I wasn't fully supportive of Dane Swan.

 

[magpies42]

I get that argument but a few points.

When I say pace I probably should have said acceleration. Phillips acceleration away from the contest is poor. But he seems fine at full tilt. When he's outside and running so hard it doesn't seem to limit him much as his running buys him space. It seems more of an issue in traffic.

On his kicking I don't think it's as bad as made out. I think people are being a bit myopic about the clangers they've seen and putting it out of perspective. His kicking can improve but it isn't terrible by any means. And I think it can improve because he's 2 years and 24 games into his career and kicking was a feature of his as a junior. So theres scope there.

I hope you are right, as he is close to resigning.

For me he lacks power, which can definitely be trained into him so no big disaster...struggles to maintain his speed.

One concerning trait though is he appears to be a panic merchant, not sure if that because he's soft or because he just panics and turns the ball over. Not so good in traffic, very outside which is fine because we have plenty of ball winners

 

[Quicky]

I hope you are right, as he is close to resigning.

For me he lacks power, which can definitely be trained into him so no big disaster...struggles to maintain his speed.

One concerning trait though is he appears to be a panic merchant, not sure if that because he's soft or because he just panics and turns the ball over. Not so good in traffic, very outside which is fine because we have plenty of ball winners

Yeah he could work on his composure. I'd like to see what he looks like when he hits 50 games.

 

[magpies42]

Yeah he could work on his composure. I'd like to see what he looks like when he hits 50 games.

Yes sometimes we are too quick to judge

 

[TradeDraft]

Where has the Phillips talk come from?

He has not Re-Signed and saying his is looking at other offers