List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2018/2019 - Part 3

[Collingwoodcrew]

Not sure either Crisp or Maynard will be pushed into a big midfield role. Both are important to our backline and would be hard to replace there.

I like the Crisp idea but, Maynard’s ball handling is suspect sometimes same as Wills.


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[scratchy09]

If I was list manager at the Pies. I wouldn't do much this season, however, I'd consider making some moves to receive future picks to make a push up the board in next years draft. I'd say we could look to trading a few players this year for future picks, those being, Scharenberg, Aish and Sier. Maybe even Thomas and WHE as well but that is less likely as I rate both higher. I say this all those players are in between our top 20-30 players and would command value of 2nd to 3rd round picks. I'd only target Josh Bruce but it appears we won't do that. Darcy Cameron also as a back up.

As for de-listings, I'd say Wells (ret), Goldsack (ret), Reid (body is shot), Appleby and Murray all to go as well. I'd say Crocker, Broomhead stay if we have the list spots to accomodate. I still believe we offer Varcoe another year. He deserves it IMO. As for Dunn, he gets another year on the absolute minimum if he wants to play on as he provides valuable key position depth and if he recaptures his form, he is best 22 quality. Lynch and Madgen get another year each. I'd also sign Wills to a 2 year low cost deal as I was really impressed with how he finished the season. As for Jamie Elliott, I think we have to keep him at all costs. I'd say 3 years with a 4th year trigger clause based off games played is very fair, however will be on slightly less coin as he gets long-term stability. I'd make it a priority to land Grundy as well. 7 years but will be either a front ended contract or having trigger clauses after years 5 and 6.

For the draft, we probably need high potential players for any position that aren't the inside mids or ruck and focus on the 2020 draft an moving up to try and select Will Phillips (who I rate very high) and Reef McInnes (academy member).

Next season, I'd hope our best 22 looks something like:
B: Howe/Roughead/Langdon
HB: Crisp/Moore/Maynard
R: Grundy/Treloar/Pendles
C: Mayne/Adams/Phillips
HF: De Goey/Mihoceck/Sidebottom
F: Elliott/Bruce (Cox if we don't land)/Stephenson
int: Beams/C.Brown/Noble/WHE, Thomas or Wills (depends if we trade the two I suggested)
Important depth: Quaynor, Dunn, Varcoe, Madgen, Cameron, Cox, Daicos and T.Brown.

I genuinely believe that squad is a very strong chance at a flag and has solid depth, with the right mix of youth and older players. However, games need to be given to that youth (Quaynor, Atu, W.Kelly, T.Brown, Daicos and others) to try and develop them to keep building our list.

I for one am very excited for next season. Bring on 2020.

 

[Soups]

He had a shoulder injury early in the year but has shown signs of being a decent talent. I suspect he will need to put some muscle on over summer to put in a good position for an AFL debut in 2020 which will happen.


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Second half of the year was very good and you’re right, lots of time spent in the gym this off seasons. He has really strong legs so it’s mainly upper body work which I reckon he’ll put on quickly. Looking forward to see him knocking down the door next year.

 

[Roverjg]

I’m not disagreeing in that he wasn’t cooked.
But at 29— Cox is entering a delicate position—-if Travis Cloke was delivering the same output as Cox would he be afforded the same luxuries as Cox is?
The answer is no.

If fact we did. Cloke had 3 poor seasons before we agreed to part ways and the only reason it was not done sooner was because of the size of his contract. Cox is still with us for the same reason in reverse. He has a point of difference because of his height, and we are keeping him because he is on cheap $$$

 

[DWil6]

Get me a freaking clearance machine who can actually rove to Grundy’s tap dominance. Our inability to get a clearance advantage, given Grundy is a beast, is a massive problem.

 

[domus]

I like the Crisp idea but, Maynard’s ball handling is suspect sometimes same as Wills.


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Maynard rarely fumbles-that's one of his strengths and was apparent on Saturday evening.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

If I was list manager at the Pies. I wouldn't do much this season, however, I'd consider making some moves to receive future picks to make a push up the board in next years draft. I'd say we could look to trading a few players this year for future picks, those being, Scharenberg, Aish and Sier. Maybe even Thomas and WHE as well but that is less likely as I rate both higher. I say this all those players are in between our top 20-30 players and would command value of 2nd to 3rd round picks. I'd only target Josh Bruce but it appears we won't do that. Darcy Cameron also as a back up.

As for de-listings, I'd say Wells (ret), Goldsack (ret), Reid (body is shot), Appleby and Murray all to go as well. I'd say Crocker, Broomhead stay if we have the list spots to accomodate. I still believe we offer Varcoe another year. He deserves it IMO. As for Dunn, he gets another year on the absolute minimum if he wants to play on as he provides valuable key position depth and if he recaptures his form, he is best 22 quality. Lynch and Madgen get another year each. I'd also sign Wills to a 2 year low cost deal as I was really impressed with how he finished the season. As for Jamie Elliott, I think we have to keep him at all costs. I'd say 3 years with a 4th year trigger clause based off games played is very fair, however will be on slightly less coin as he gets long-term stability. I'd make it a priority to land Grundy as well. 7 years but will be either a front ended contract or having trigger clauses after years 5 and 6.

For the draft, we probably need high potential players for any position that aren't the inside mids or ruck and focus on the 2020 draft an moving up to try and select Will Phillips (who I rate very high) and Reef McInnes (academy member).

Next season, I'd hope our best 22 looks something like:
B: Howe/Roughead/Langdon
HB: Crisp/Moore/Maynard
R: Grundy/Treloar/Pendles
C: Mayne/Adams/Phillips
HF: De Goey/Mihoceck/Sidebottom
F: Elliott/Bruce (Cox if we don't land)/Stephenson
int: Beams/C.Brown/Noble/WHE, Thomas or Wills (depends if we trade the two I suggested)
Important depth: Quaynor, Dunn, Varcoe, Madgen, Cameron, Cox, Daicos and T.Brown.

I genuinely believe that squad is a very strong chance at a flag and has solid depth, with the right mix of youth and older players. However, games need to be given to that youth (Quaynor, Atu, W.Kelly, T.Brown, Daicos and others) to try and develop them to keep building our list.

I for one am very excited for next season. Bring on 2020.

Appleby is contracted.

 

[Swanny2010]

Hopefully Crocker packed he’s bag 2 weeks ago

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Get me a freaking clearance machine who can actually rove to Grundy’s tap dominance. Our inability to get a clearance advantage, given Grundy is a beast, is a massive problem.

DeGoey seems to be our best at that despite limited mid time.

 

[johncitizen]

A couple years ago, Moore had kicked more goals then Joe Daniher at the same age of 22 (if I remember correctly).

People speak about Daniher like he’s a god. Moore could have, and may well end up as a better forward.

Definately. Moore is bigger and stronger now. Really want to see him up forward.

 

[ThePhantom777]

I thought ppl might be interested by these comments from Scout over on Extreme Black N White. For those who don't know, Scout worked as a talent scout at the Pie, he does work for another club now but is a massive Pies supporter like us.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem
Too patchy this year...second half of year punctuated by incomprehensible losses.
Not good enough this year, but the basis for success is there.

Key strategies
1. Keep the list together, with experiences like these will come strength...there is scope in the list, and now there should be steel, with the right focus.
2. Seek a KPF... a beacon type fwd who leads well and draws the ball. Bruce STK is a real and worthwhile target.
3. Recover properly - sort injuries now! Not after Christmas ...our soft tissue injuries rate is amongst the worst in the comp...this needs sorting and there are experts out there to help us.
4. Preseason....train the ****ing house down...speed agility and power please
5. Ned Guy...you’ve been around long enough to sort our strategy re: cap...time to deliver or **** off. The Beams trade was about you...and you knew the Lions would quiver if you held out, but you wanted to deliver so paid overs...I kinda get that...but now what? No more of those deals please.
6. Bucks...you know the power of investment in your players. “You’ve come too far to only come this far” rings true. Keep tipping in to them.

We’re restricted
No leverage in draft due to trading picks away
No salary due to Beams spend and projected (in next 2-3yrs) cost to keep key personnel incl Darcy, Brodie, Jordan
We can’t keep chasing trade for trade sake
Better off holding and building to catch a big fish (think a genuine gun) to complement Brodie Jordy Darcy Jaidyn etc rather than more hole fillers.

 

[ThePhantom777]

So far I've read that...

• Swans ruck/forward Darcy Cameron from Swans wants to join us. Has played NEAFL this year. https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/player-profile/darcy-cameron
• Werribee forward Jake Riccardi may be a player we are interested in. http://www.werribeefc.com.au/football/player-profiles/item/32-jake-riccardi
  
  ​

Other options

• Saints forward Josh Bruce
• Crows forward Josh Jenkins (contracted until the end of 2021)
• Ollie Wines - could fill the extra contested mid position we need.

Preferred option

• Jeremy Cameron (If Giants win a premiership, perhaps he'll be happy to leave).

 

[Johno9911]

Get me a freaking clearance machine who can actually rove to Grundy’s tap dominance. Our inability to get a clearance advantage, given Grundy is a beast, is a massive problem.

In terms of total clearances Grundy was 7th and Treloar 11th, while in 2018 Taylor Adams had the 6th most.

I agree though, I still think we need another player who can consistently win clearances for us, alongside Adams and Treloar (Grundy while he can, probably shouldn't be expected too). I think Pendles big "clearance number days" are behind him and the likes of Sidebottom, Phillips etc aren't exactly that sort of player either.

Problem is, gun clearance players will be pretty expensive to get. In saying that the only player I think that we could get relatively cheaply would be Luke Dunstan from the Saints. Dunstan finished 31 in total but actually was 9th in terms of average clearances ahead of players like Grundy, Bontempelli, Sloane, Kelly and Dangerfield.

The other option would be backing in Sier to help us improve in this area? Averaged 4 clearances from his games last year, and should look to improve on that.

 

[Roverjg]

I must rate Phillips a lot higher than others.

I think his work-rate is first class, he has a pretty good attack on the ball and he is a pretty decent mark as well. His obvious let down is foot skills, but I think he more than makes up for it with how hard he runs defensively and offensively. He isn't quick, but he is a ball carrier. Of course I'd love an Andrew Gaff or a Josh Kelly instead, but overall I think he plays his role nicely. One of the only players in our midfield who runs back as hard as he runs forward.

His work-rate is first class, and he runs all day both ways, but as you stated he is let down by his foot skills and that is a big issue when he gets so many disposals and 65% of his disposals are kicks. He averaged just under 24 possessions per game, but only 15 of those possessions were effective. Of the 9 ineffective disposals, 5 of them were direct turnovers.

 

[peter9789]

Goals for Trade/Draft Period:

1. Re-sign Grundy and Elliott
2. Recruit Dougal Howard which in turn will release Darcy Moore to attack.
3. Recruit Aiden Bonar or Jayden Laverde to release Jordan DeGoey to midfield.
4. Recruit Darcy Cameron for additional Ruck/KPF depth.
5. Draft another developing KPF.
6. Profit.

I wholeheartedly agree with point 1.

But in order to deliver point 2 to 5 what are you willing to give up realistically to land those players assuming they want to come?

For example Dougal Howard pick 56 in his year, and relatively modestly performed based on his stats, what do you think will land him? Would for example you be will to part with Scharenberg as a direct swap for example - would that even get it done? He is currently contracted so you need to pay overs to get him out - but at what price?

 

[jackcass]

Maynard rarely fumbles-that's one of his strengths and was apparent on Saturday evening.

Interesting. I actually think he can tend to fumble a ground ball all too often. Not sure it's any more than a focus/concentration thing though.

 

[peter9789]

Someone mentioned this should we look to trade WHE? Had a poor year and is surplus. Frees up some cap space too.

I personally would not consider trading WHE. Had no preseason so come in completely underdone and never really caught up. Can be a difference maker if played forward - go overhead and a great shot for goal. He is a keeper in my book

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I would want another source then that to take it too Seriously.

They reckon we are in the Box Seat to Get Patton.

That says a lot

What does it say, TD?

 

[partypie]

He’s a very solid player! He is one that some will continue to whip around here, until he gets injured or something and misses a period (fingers crossed that doesnt happen) and they’ll see his worth. AKA Langdon... spent so long defending the bloke, and now he’s gone so many haters reckon hes a star!

Don’t know what you got till its gone.

Also, His kicking skills seemed improved from about round 17-18 onwards. Thats purely going off eye test for me.

23 years old - knows how to find the footy, runs all day and can kick a goal when the opportunity arises. Needs to work on his disposal and hardness in contested ball situations a little (both offensively and defensively) and was a bit down on form this year compared to last, but he's not alone in that.

He'll never be a Buckley type drilling 55m bullet passes onto the chest of team mates but if he can find a little something extra in terms of being a bit stronger in the contest both offensively and defensively (which is currently an aspect he is sub-par in) then he'll be a more effective "glue" midfielder who keeps popping up in the right spots when we need someone to go get a loose ball or link up in a chain of possession.

The eye test indicates that he might fwt a little "jumpy" when he feels perceived pressure or is in an actual contested situation and I'd hazard a guess as to say that the majority of his ineffective disposals (and especially clanger kicks) come in those situations.

 

[partypie]

Bloody hope it’s rubbish

I can't see the club dumping busted one coke user just to bring another one in - not a good look for a club with a perceived drug problem.

 

[TradeDraft]

What does it say, TD?

That goes against where the Rest of the Media is saying which it's pretty much sure thing Patton is going to Hawthorn

 

[TradeDraft]

I wholeheartedly agree with point 1.

But in order to deliver point 2 to 5 what are you willing to give up realistically to land those players assuming they want to come?

For example Dougal Howard pick 56 in his year, and relatively modestly performed based on his stats, what do you think will land him? Would for example you be will to part with Scharenberg as a direct swap for example - would that even get it done? He is currently contracted so you need to pay overs to get him out - but at what price?

Cameron is the only 1 we know for sure at the Moment that be at Collingwood next year

 

[Crazy Tails]

I thought ppl might be interested by these comments from Scout over on Extreme Black N White. For those who don't know, Scout worked as a talent scout at the Pie, he does work for another club now but is a massive Pies supporter like us.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem
Too patchy this year...second half of year punctuated by incomprehensible losses.
Not good enough this year, but the basis for success is there.

Key strategies
1. Keep the list together, with experiences like these will come strength...there is scope in the list, and now there should be steel, with the right focus.
2. Seek a KPF... a beacon type fwd who leads well and draws the ball. Bruce STK is a real and worthwhile target.
3. Recover properly - sort injuries now! Not after Christmas ...our soft tissue injuries rate is amongst the worst in the comp...this needs sorting and there are experts out there to help us.
4. Preseason....train the ******* house down...speed agility and power please
5. Ned Guy...you’ve been around long enough to sort our strategy re: cap...time to deliver or fu** off. The Beams trade was about you...and you knew the Lions would quiver if you held out, but you wanted to deliver so paid overs...I kinda get that...but now what? No more of those deals please.
6. Bucks...you know the power of investment in your players. “You’ve come too far to only come this far” rings true. Keep tipping in to them.

We’re restricted
No leverage in draft due to trading picks away
No salary due to Beams spend and projected (in next 2-3yrs) cost to keep key personnel incl Darcy, Brodie, Jordan
We can’t keep chasing trade for trade sake
Better off holding and building to catch a big fish (think a genuine gun) to complement Brodie Jordy Darcy Jaidyn etc rather than more hole fillers.

Thanks for sharing. Always interested to know what Scout has to say.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Cameron is the only 1 we know for sure at the Moment that be at Collingwood next year

Jeremy Cameron coming to Collingwood! Whoopeee! Saints be praised!!

 

[nahnah]

Scout pretty much said what a lot thought... lay low for a year or two then target a star to compliment De Goey, Grundy, Stevo, Treloar etc. He also said he thinks Cameron is gettable in the future.. I believe that was referring to Jeremy Cameron.


He had a few choice words for Ned Guy regarding the Beams trade