List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2020

[whiskeytown]

Don’t see a point in going anywhere near Blakely.

- was dropped earlier this year for poor defensive efforts.
- rumours around his character and incidents
- is just an okay mid

Surely there are better inside midfielders to target

But if Longmuir rates Phillips.

If Aish was worth roughly a 2nd rd pick to Freo... then Freo can give us there pick 29 or a future 2nd (Daicos points) for Phillips.

That deal I’d do

 

[No SPIN]

5 of the first 7 goals are from SOFT frees, another comes from a dodgy kick that skims off a defenders hands straight to Ben who kicks an opportunist goal. In the 3 mins I watched his HIGHLIGHTS came against Brisbane, Adelaide and Hawthorn....can you please show him dominating outside against RICHMOND (even Coxy has done that) or against US? He's NOT A CONTESTED key position player.

the video I posted was 17 minutes long, so you’ll need to check for those teams.
As a sceptic, I was actually impressed with his talent.

 

[Knightmare]

My wife does these sorts of trades all the time: "We trade our nice enough little place overlooking the Great Southern Ocean for a 4 million dollar apartment on the point at Byron...." I just look at the dog and we both just shrug and go back to sleep!

FANTASY Trades Knight? At least if you're gonna do this stuff at least make it obvious....

Collingwood get: Cameron, Riccardi and Toby Greene
GWS get: Wills
Melbourne get: Heath Shaw

Back to sleep!

There is value in looking at unrealistic trade scenarios.

As per my post which you quoted, and the disclaimer was in there, Grundy would never be traded. There are no questions around that.

Where the value in going through unrealistic trade scenarios comes from is the identification of names. Coming up with names. Comparing names. Who do you like more? Who would fit better? How is more suitably priced be it from the perspective of what you would have to give up or salary cap hit?

It gets you thinking about different players. That's immensely valuable.

For the scenario explored. Would GWS necessarily say no to Grundy?
Green isn't a must keep for GWS. They have so many of the same mids with Hopper and Taranto not quick mids either. They don't need Riccardi if they have Cameron/Finlayson/Himmelberg. Do Melbourne need Preuss? They're fine with Gawn and Jackson as their big 2. Can GWS afford to give up O'Halloran? He's not best 22 and no guarantee to make it, but Melbourne would love to have him with his acceleration. If such a trade went down, arguably all three clubs would be happy with the outcome. If GWS were to bring in Grundy. Would others take a discount to accommodate him? I suspect if Grundy came on board there would be a lot of players taking discounts and others wanting to play with him on what in my view remains the best list in the competition. It's a trade in theory that would arguably help all three teams and help each of their respective objectives. Collingwood fill pressing list holes, improve list balance and have more worthwhile best 22 players. GWS get the ultimate upgrade in their spot of greatest need and Melbourne flip someone they're not using for someone who adds midfield speed.

While on paper a trade could be good for all parties, and help the list balance of each side, the reality is with star players they don't get moved and Collingwood probably would be that side to say no first in this trade scenario, and while I was flying the flag in 2018/2019 calling Grundy that best player in the game and player I'd build around first, for this kind of return, and I view Green/Riccardi/Preuss each as undervalued, I feel like in the long run it helps Collingwood a lot and short term may also be an upgrade with Green a sure upgrade on the likes of Wills/Sier and Riccardi over Cox. While the added salary cap space such a trade would make would mean remarkable opportunity to capitalise on the opportunities this offseason to secure additional players for unders.

As a concept, if such a move like this could be made, and I don't particular mind which 'name' piece. Maybe it's a De Goey. Or Moore. I'd be more than happy to explore it, if the return includes a combination of guys who can be legitimate stars as I see with Green and Riccardi.

 

[Robroy22]

There is value in looking at unrealistic trade scenarios.

As per my post which you quoted, and the disclaimer was in there, Grundy would never be traded. There are no questions around that.

Where the value in going through unrealistic trade scenarios comes from is the identification of names. Coming up with names. Comparing names. Who do you like more? Who would fit better? How is more suitably priced be it from the perspective of what you would have to give up or salary cap hit?

It gets you thinking about different players. That's immensely valuable.

For the scenario explored. Would GWS necessarily say no to Grundy?
Green isn't a must keep for GWS. They have so many of the same mids with Hopper and Taranto not quick mids either. They don't need Riccardi if they have Cameron/Finlayson/Himmelberg. Do Melbourne need Preuss? They're fine with Gawn and Jackson as their big 2. Can GWS afford to give up O'Halloran? He's not best 22 and no guarantee to make it, but Melbourne would love to have him with his acceleration. If such a trade went down, arguably all three clubs would be happy with the outcome. If GWS were to bring in Grundy. Would others take a discount to accommodate him? I suspect if Grundy came on board there would be a lot of players taking discounts and others wanting to play with him on what in my view remains the best list in the competition. It's a trade in theory that would arguably help all three teams and help each of their respective objectives. Collingwood fill pressing list holes, improve list balance and have more worthwhile best 22 players. GWS get the ultimate upgrade in their spot of greatest need and Melbourne flip someone they're not using for someone who adds midfield speed.

While on paper a trade could be good for all parties, and help the list balance of each side, the reality is with star players they don't get moved and Collingwood probably would be that side to say no first in this trade scenario, and while I was flying the flag in 2018/2019 calling Grundy that best player in the game and player I'd build around first, for this kind of return, and I view Green/Riccardi/Preuss each as undervalued, I feel like in the long run it helps Collingwood a lot and short term may also be an upgrade with Green a sure upgrade on the likes of Wills/Sier and Riccardi over Cox. While the added salary cap space such a trade would make would mean remarkable opportunity to capitalise on the opportunities this offseason to secure additional players for unders.

As a concept, if such a move like this could be made, and I don't particular mind which 'name' piece. Maybe it's a De Goey. Or Moore. I'd be more than happy to explore it, if the return includes a combination of guys who can be legitimate stars as I see with Green and Riccardi.

Yeah my wife says stuff like that too. Hey if you (like her) have got time to play out these fantasy games in your head and call it "immensely valuable"... more strength to your arms I say. Good way to escape Covid I guess....though this thing with her and her fantasy houses has been about for 20 years or more....lol. She lies awake nights thinking about it....I sleep like a rock!

 

[Quicky]

Early in the year Fremantle were thinking of paying Hogan out, so I don't see it as unrealistic. How they're valuing him at the moment I have no idea what their intentions are with him. I strongly suspect he would be on the table, but if they rate him at all, I just don't know. They'd have to have really revised their views on him to suddenly rate him.

Given both Hogan's physical health and mental health issues, I personally don't place Hogan's value any higher than Phillips, with the swap being a consistent and reliable, plug and play performer for a high risk/high reward player (Hogan), who has a very low probability of returning to anything close to his best, as a once was. You just hope you can get any value out of Hogan, because there is the very real possibility you get no games out of him and have him walk away from the game at any stage. But if he does work out and you find a way to get him playing good football, then that's a bonus rather than an expectation, as he hasn't played good football since he last played for Melbourne, and you have to have full understanding in taking him on, that you're not with any certainty getting any games from him.

I went to the Dogs v Freo game on Sunday. I watched Hogan closely. He seemed to get caught too high and then urge the midfield to kick into the space behind the play for out the back goals that weren't on. He didn't lead at the ball often enough for my liking. It's only one game but he isn't playing well.

 

[Apex36]

If Phillips was to be traded to Freo I’d be hoping to get more than just Blakely in return.
We’re talking about a guy who’s been a staple in Collingwoods 22 for the past 3-4 years now, through a period of dominance and played 80+ games in a row, vs a guy who could only manage 5 games this year in a bottom 8 side and has ‘personality issues’....

 

[Quicky]

If it’s true Carlton are into Murphy and we just let him walk for practically nothing, and he starts developing at the ******* bluesers, it shows where our club is at. Not sure what’s happened to him. Should of been a mainstay in the best 22 this season with all the injuries.

Where's that rumour from?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Still no crumbers though

Do not try to get a crumber. That is impossible. Instead, try to realise the truth about the crumbs...

... THERE ARE NO CRUMBS!

 

[Matt_352]

Could we cut in on the dogs or cats on lonie or higgins?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I’d be very happy to get Higgins, but there’s no suggestion that the club is interested and I don’t know how much money he’s on.

 

[Quicky]

Do not try to get a crumber. That is impossible. Instead, try to realise the truth about the crumbs...

... THERE ARE NO CRUMBS!

 

[Quicky]

5 of the first 7 goals are from SOFT frees, another comes from a dodgy kick that skims off a defenders hands straight to Ben who kicks an opportunist goal. In the 3 mins I watched his HIGHLIGHTS came against Brisbane, Adelaide and Hawthorn....can you please show him dominating outside against RICHMOND (even Coxy has done that) or against US? He's NOT A CONTESTED key position player.

Compared to Mihocek:




Chalk and cheese. We underrate our own.

 

[Knightmare]

Yeah my wife says stuff like that too. Hey if you (like her) have got time to play out these fantasy games in your head and call it "immensely valuable"... more strength to your arms I say. Good way to escape Covid I guess....though this thing with her and her fantasy houses has been about for 20 years or more....lol. She lies awake nights thinking about it....I sleep like a rock!

Sounds like you would benefit from reading Think and Grow Rich. A classic by Napoleon Hill into mindset, setting goals and achieving them. If you never have dreams, never have any goals you want to achieve, you're never going to achieve anything big. People can have all the talent in the world, but mindset and not having that want on that level where there is no way you're not achieving that goal doesn't allow people to maximise anything.

If your wife is dreaming about properties, she should read some of Steve McKnight's books. 0-130 properties in 3.5 Years and 0-260+ properties in 7 years. If 'fantasy houses' are out of reach she can always start with cashflow positive properties in markets where the yields are high and entry prices are low, which means markets aside from Melbourne or Sydney. Maybe doing that tickles her fancy, or maybe it's makes financing a 'fantasy house' possible. There are good markets out there with rental yields of 7%+, and that's going to do more for the average Joe over the long term than money in the bank or wasted on consumer goods, if property is the investment vehicle one is passionate about.

Probably easy to guess given the book recommendations, but during COVID I've been keeping busy. I still work my Mon-Fri job and still produce content for ESPN, but I'm spending any extra time I can muster starting a YouTube channel and a larger chunk of my time into getting a financial education with a view towards starting to invest, perhaps as soon as next year in a combination of asset classes.

I've been talking about this offseason being the ultimate transfer of wealth, and any list size reduction will trigger it and really separate those intelligent clubs from those that simply aren't. We're going to see the same in the financial world if there is some kind of market crash, be it stock market, property market etc. The biggest transfer of wealth in our lifetimes and it's going to be those who are financially intelligent who get ahead, in the very same way those who know rival lists inside out and know how to make the most of those opportunities to improve your own list will get ahead this offseason at a historic rate.

 

[Piestration]

Collingwood have missed the opportunity to draft Jake Riccardi. But given how much less you would have to pay to get him and how much less of a salary cap hit it would require to get him, I'd rather have Jake Riccardi over Jeremy Cameron.

Am I crazy? Time will tell. But don't sleep on Riccardi. His rate of improvement has been ridiculous each year and I wouldn't be shocked if all said and done he's one of the best 5 from last year's draft, or if not then best 10.

If I could have Jake Riccardi and Tom Green in a package rather than Cameron, who probably has a higher market value, give me Riccardi and Green any day, and I'll enjoy the lesser salary cap hit all at the same time.

Fantasy world trade scenario stuff as per your example of trading Grundy which would never happen unless Grundy said he wanted out, but if I'm trading Grundy, GWS can have Grundy if a three-way trade to secure Riccardi, Green and Preuss was possible.
eg.
Collingwood get: Riccardi, Green, Preuss
GWS get: Grundy
Melbourne get: O'Halloran

Three instant best 22 players and losing just the one. Riccardi becomes the number one marking target and he can really attack balls aerially and be that i50 target. Preuss is a big presence. And Green can become the best first possession winner and contested ball winner in the competition.

And it's likely we would still have change

 

[Knightmare]

I went to the Dogs v Freo game on Sunday. I watched Hogan closely. He seemed to get caught too high and then urge the midfield to kick into the space behind the play for out the back goals that weren't on. He didn't lead at the ball often enough for my liking. It's only one game but he isn't playing well.

My observations have been the same from the other games I've seen (albeit on tv).

He used to be a contested marking and i50 force and he needs to get that real physical edge back. He really start impacting games and playing with force as he did in those first two seasons where he looked like a potentially generational key forward.

 

[Matt_352]

I’d be very happy to get Higgins, but there’s no suggestion that the club is interested and I don’t know how much money he’s on.

My thinking is we would play he or Lonie in fwdline and make DeGoey perma mid

Front 6 looking like

Gunston Kelly Mihocek
Stevo Brown Lonie/Higgins

 

[Knightmare]

And it's likely we would still have change

Quite probably. Would be easy to negotiate a good combination of numerous picks as sweetners.

GWS would be jumping over themselves for a shot at Grundy. He's a franchise player. And losing just three non-essential players to make it happen? I expect so too. It's that kind of move that can jump a team into the premiership conversation.

I love Grundy, but I'm very confident in both Green and Riccardi, and Preuss I like also and feel has long been underused.

 

[Go Woods]

Quite probably. Would be easy to negotiate a good combination of numerous picks as sweetners.

GWS would be jumping over themselves for a shot at Grundy. He's a franchise player. And losing just three non-essential players to make it happen? I expect so too. It's that kind of move that can jump a team into the premiership conversation.

I love Grundy, but I'm very confident in both Green and Riccardi, and Preuss I like also and feel has long been underused.

I would certainly entertain trading Grundy in return for Riccardi, Green & gaining Preuss as his replacement.

 

[Moore of the Same]

I would certainly entertain trading Grundy in return for Riccardi, Green & gaining Preuss as his replacement.

Could probably get a pair if #1 draft picks for him from the Crows.

 

[jonnyd4]

If it’s true Carlton are into Murphy and we just let him walk for practically nothing, and he starts developing at the ******* bluesers, it shows where our club is at. Not sure what’s happened to him. Should of been a mainstay in the best 22 this season with all the injuries.

Contracted to 2022 I believe. So unless the club don't rate him (they do), I don't see him going anywhere.

 

[Knightmare]

I would certainly entertain trading Grundy in return for Riccardi, Green & gaining Preuss as his replacement.

The key with these guys is they're all under market value and people don't realise how great they are.

I covered Green in my YouTube video last week titled 'The AFL's best stoppage player four years from now will be this five gamer' for those interested.

But to summarise. His 21cp game v Melbourne. And doing that with Gawn the opposing ruckman. That's all-time stuff as a first year player. And he was getting all-time numbers in NAB League and U18 Championships. And he can become that premier first possession winner at stoppages in the competition.

Riccardi who I've spoken about elsewhere. His story goes. Draft year, he wasn't relevant or anything notable. Coming back to TAC Cup as an overager he showed glimpses and was much improved. Last year in the VFL comes in and takes things up another notch and wins the Fothergill-Round-Mitchell Medal for the VFL's most promising young player. Then this year having such an immediate impact at AFL level and looking even by the standards of those others his age only behind maybe Naughton, and we're talking about a guy who is still improving at a rapid rate. With his leap, contested marking and the way he attacks it aerially, if you want someone taking grabs and bringing it to ground, he's your guy, and can become one of if not the very best in the competition in those components.

Then Preuss plays with a physicality and isn't an easy ruckman to beat, so he can hold his own and throw his body around and be more than competitive.

I'd probably want a combination of picks from GWS as a sweetner, and feel like I can more than justify a combination of 2020 and 2021 picks, and GWS would still be falling over themselves to get Grundy, being that consistently great ruckman, but more critically a great ruckman with durability.

 

[Knightmare]

And it's likely we would still have change

I'd imagine so too. Grundy for three non essential players?

They'd be throwing picks in as sweetners as there is no way if they can afford to slot a Grundy into their salary cap that they'd give up a chance to great an elite, durable player in their position of greatest need. He's someone they'd do anything to get.

 

[Robroy22]

Compared to Mihocek:




Chalk and cheese. We underrate our own.

We certainly DO in Checkers case....I agree.

 

[Robroy22]

Sounds like you would benefit from reading Think and Grow Rich. A classic by Napoleon Hill into mindset, setting goals and achieving them. If you never have dreams, never have any goals you want to achieve, you're never going to achieve anything big. People can have all the talent in the world, but mindset and not having that want on that level where there is no way you're not achieving that goal doesn't allow people to maximise anything.

If your wife is dreaming about properties, she should read some of Steve McKnight's books. 0-130 properties in 3.5 Years and 0-260+ properties in 7 years. If 'fantasy houses' are out of reach she can always start with cashflow positive properties in markets where the yields are high and entry prices are low, which means markets aside from Melbourne or Sydney. Maybe doing that tickles her fancy, or maybe it's makes financing a 'fantasy house' possible. There are good markets out there with rental yields of 7%+, and that's going to do more for the average Joe over the long term than money in the bank or wasted on consumer goods, if property is the investment vehicle one is passionate about.

Probably easy to guess given the book recommendations, but during COVID I've been keeping busy. I still work my Mon-Fri job and still produce content for ESPN, but I'm spending any extra time I can muster starting a YouTube channel and a larger chunk of my time into getting a financial education with a view towards starting to invest, perhaps as soon as next year in a combination of asset classes.

I've been talking about this offseason being the ultimate transfer of wealth, and any list size reduction will trigger it and really separate those intelligent clubs from those that simply aren't. We're going to see the same in the financial world if there is some kind of market crash, be it stock market, property market etc. The biggest transfer of wealth in our lifetimes and it's going to be those who are financially intelligent who get ahead, in the very same way those who know rival lists inside out and know how to make the most of those opportunities to improve your own list will get ahead this offseason at a historic rate.

Lol....Chris I'm a self made man! I'm 71 years old and surf everyday. Still run my own business (work when I want to though these days) and have put 4 kids through uni and travelled (and surfed) all over the world. My little house on the Great Ocean Rd could probably pay for my wife's dreamhouses in Byron if she really wanted to move. My goals have always been to make the best surfboards in the world and to make my family proud of me and happy to doing whatever it is they want. These days my goals are to spend more time surfing with my grandkids!

I spose I could read "Think and grow rich"... but how rich do I really need to be? If you think my mindset is lacking or could be improved...you're probably correct (but maybe you're not).

My wife is an architect Chris....lol...so designing houses and dreaming of perfect houses is just par for the course.

Thanks for the lifestyle advice mate. Let's hope you're better at spotting players than you are in spotting marks here in the BF community!

 

[Knightmare]

Lol....Chris I'm a self made man! I'm 71 years old and surf everyday. Still run my own business (work when I want to though these days) and have put 4 kids through uni and travelled (and surfed) all over the world. My little house on the Great Ocean Rd could probably pay for my wife's dreamhouses in Byron if she really wanted to move. My goals have always been to make the best surfboards in the world and to make my family proud of me and happy to doing whatever it is they want. These days my goals are to spend more time surfing with my grandkids!

I spose I could read "Think and grow rich"... but how rich do I really need to be? If you think my mindset is lacking or could be improved...you're probably correct (but maybe you're not).

My wife is an architect Chris....lol...so designing houses and dreaming of perfect houses is just par for the course.

Thanks for the lifestyle advice mate. Let's hope you're better at spotting players than you are in spotting marks here in the BF community!

Great to hear you're living the dream! Love what I'm hearing!