Recruiting Trade & Free Agency IV - hypotheticals etc. (Continued in Part V)

[eDPS]

If you're prepared to scratch the surface and ask whether we have adequately replaced the presence of Hooker and Carlisle in defence.

You'll find the answer is **** no. Lever is a need and if you can't see it you're not looking hard enough, or you just don't know much about what's going on.


Replacing Carlisle and Hookers presence with a 21 y.o that has Hurley's boot? Glad woosha running this joint not BF.

Is he a more important need than more quality midfielders for our team. No, no he isn't. That's what everyone is getting at, we want to focus on our biggest issue and that is midfielders and it's not even debatable

 

[Teflon Dons]

Is he a more important need than more quality midfielders for our team. No, no he isn't. That's what everyone is getting at, we want to focus on our biggest issue and that is midfielders and it's not even debatable

Yeah.. so everyone has said for months and since he has been heavily linked to us?

I know the midfield needs work, but we've seen a bunch of guys working towards midfield minutes all year, we can add quality to that mix cheaply while everyone's falling over themselves trying to re sign their stars.

At no point have I said ignore the midfield, focus on Lever. I just don't let the midfield deficiencies blind me to holes in other areas. Our mids have looked good for 10-12 weeks now, couple just on their last legs..

 

[Milanista28]

Lever and Hopper or one of Dusty/Kelly

1st all day for me, We have the money and trade currency to get it done as well IMO, Will of the player(s) the biggest obstacle.

Are we a destination club yet?? Or do we need to win finals??

 

[Teflon Dons]

Score involvements is the stat used to indicate disposal efficiency but more importantly decision making. For every posession in a chain that leads to a score you get credited with one.

Jake cuts off (intercept posession) more than every player on our list with an average of 9.6. Our best is Hurley with 8.5.

Based on these stats from the AFL website its not as clear that he disposes of it well.
View attachment 399397View attachment 399398View attachment 399399View attachment 399400

You can hit a target all day of the week but if its the wrong target its pointless.

He's a pinpoint kick just takes his time to decide on a target mike! It'll come with age and experience working next to the best in the business mike hurls

 

[Killer_Mike]

He's a pinpoint kick just takes his time to decide on a target mike! It'll come with age and experience working next to the best in the business mike hurls

I have my concerns with his decision making considering just how much ball he's winning. Ambrose is the only defender averaging less Score Involvements and he is considered mostly a stopper.

Obviously he will improve but at the price we would have to pay you expect something a little closer to the finished article.

 

[Teflon Dons]

I have my concerns with his decision making considering just how much ball he's winning. Ambrose is the only defender averaging less Score Involvements and he is considered mostly a stopper.

Obviously he will improve but at the price we would have to pay you expect something a little closer to the finished article.

At 21? That's not realistic though is it

 

[Killer_Mike]

At 21? That's not realistic though is it

For $800k and a first rounder I think it is.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

If you're prepared to scratch the surface and ask whether we have adequately replaced the presence of Hooker and Carlisle in defence.

Is it necessary to have? We already defend very well based on goals to inside 50s ratio.

Who were the doggies best contested marks in defence last year?

For mine having good support spoiling and coverage from defenders is much more important than having a dominant intercept mark. Having one is nice but ultimately useless if we don't make up significant ground in the middle.

 

[Teflon Dons]

For mine having good support spoiling and coverage from defenders is much more important than having a dominant intercept mark. Having one is nice but ultimately useless if we don't make up significant ground in the middle.

We don't have that though, our D is shit at spoiling. And we have a dominant interceptor.. Michael Hurley? He is just terrible contested.

Lever is averaging nearly 2 contested marks a game for a 21y.o. That's pretty incredible being 195cm. Throws himself into anything, we don't have a guy like that right now. And I think we're closer to having a premiership quality midfield than we are a premiership defence.

Err, I'm not sure but I think their VC Easton Wood ain't too bad

 

[Killer_Mike]

We don't have that though, our D is shit at spoiling. And we have a dominant interceptor.. Michael Hurley? He is just terrible contested.

Lever is averaging nearly 2 contested marks a game for a 21y.o. That's pretty incredible being 195cm. Throws himself into anything, we don't have a guy like that right now. And I think we're closer to having a premiership quality midfield than we are a premiership defence.

Err, I'm not sure but I think their VC Easton Wood ain't too bad

At 5pm on Sunday I want you to post something on here as verification that you're not Jake.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

We don't have that though, our D is shit at spoiling. And we have a dominant interceptor.. Michael Hurley? He is just terrible contested.

Lever is averaging nearly 2 contested marks a game for a 21y.o. That's pretty incredible being 195cm. Throws himself into anything, we don't have a guy like that right now. And I think we're closer to having a premiership quality midfield than we are a premiership defence.

Err, I'm not sure but I think their VC Easton Wood ain't too bad

Easton Wood averaged about 0.2 contested marks per game more than Hurley and Gleeson are currently. Or 3.5 more over a season.

We are miles off having a premiership midfield and once you have that your defence gets elevated. If you have sustained pressure in the middle it's immensely easier to defend, then you have average players like Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling with premiership medals.

I'm a huge fan of having a taller defence, but going after Lever is completely disregarding our drafting strategy with Ridley, Francis and Redman as options to help aerially and frankly a waste of resources.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Easton Wood averaged 0.2 contested marks per game more than Hurley and Gleeson are currently. Or 3.5 more over a season.

We are miles off having a premiership midfield and once you have that your defence gets elevated. If you have sustained pressure in the middle it's immensely easier to defend, then you have average players like Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling with premiership medals.

Ah they had a few more weapons down there than just that... our new look 2018 midfield with a full time Parish replacing Myers, more Tippa and Raz, Mcgrath's a freak will probably leave the coaches no choice next year. Honestly we're not miles off at all in there. 1 young bull replacing Jobe and we're pretty much set in the middle for 10 years..

Good mids come on the market every offseason. A key tall freak like Lever wanting back to Melbourne at 21? Once in a blue moon mate, I think I've made my point about him filling a need, happy we're into him in the end, see what happens

 

[Killer_Mike]

Easton Wood averaged about 0.2 contested marks per game more than Hurley and Gleeson are currently. Or 3.5 more over a season.

We are miles off having a premiership midfield and once you have that your defence gets elevated. If you have sustained pressure in the middle it's immensely easier to defend, then you have average players like Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling with premiership medals.

I'm a huge fan of having a taller defence, but going after Lever is completely disregarding our drafting strategy with Ridley, Francis and Redman as options to help aerially and frankly a waste of resources.

I agree with everything you have said there except miles off in midfield.

I think the improvement will come very fast from the players we currently have. Just need to continue to add depth/quality.

 

[Teflon Dons]

And honestly, should Easton wood be averaging 0.anything more contested marks than Hurley? Not for mine he needs to harden tf up and mark it in a pack. ****ing shits me at his size he defends like a pussy.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

And honestly, should Easton wood be averaging 0.anything more contested marks than Hurley? Not for mine he needs to harden tf up and mark it in a pack. ******* shits me at his size he defends like a pussy.

Not with the way contested marks are judged. Most of Easton Wood's contested marks aren't even close to being spoiled because of his elevation, closer to uncontested than a body on body contest. Plus Hurley's wrists are buggered and he rarely clutches a mark first time.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I agree with everything you have said there except miles off in midfield.

I think the improvement will come very fast from the players we currently have. Just need to continue to add depth/quality.

I think a lot of the pieces are there but the last one being that inside bull is the hardest to acquire. Generally a top 5 pick or a lot of luck to get one and until we get an elite one I don't think we'll be contending.

Not one to lament drafting choices too much, but thinking about this team with Luke Parker makes me sad.

 

[Killer_Mike]

I think a lot of the pieces are there but the last one being that inside bull is the hardest to acquire. Generally a top 5 pick or a lot of luck to get one and until we get an elite one I don't think we'll be contending.

Not one to lament drafting choices too much, but thinking about this team with Luke Parker makes me sad.

I personally think their is more to a good midfield than just adding an inside bull. It would help obviously but I think if Jobe finishes up that will change the dynamic of the midfield for the better. I love Jobe but he's just to slow for modern football and in particular our gameplan.

I know a lot aren't as confident as I am about Langford but I think he's going to take a massive step up next year. Add to that the natural improvement of Parish, Merrett and continued development of McGrath then we will look a lot better.

We have the whole off season to refine our midfield setup and then it will most likely take a few weeks of the regular season to hits it's straps.

 

[Teflon Dons]

I think a lot of the pieces are there but the last one being that inside bull is the hardest to acquire. Generally a top 5 pick or a lot of luck to get one and until we get an elite one I don't think we'll be contending.

Luke Parker

I can think of more inside guns drafted outside the top 5 than in it.... there's more than 3-4 a year? Strange comment.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

I personally think their is more to a good midfield than just adding an inside bull. It would help obviously but I think if Jobe finishes up that will change the dynamic of the midfield for the better. I love Jobe but he's just to slow for modern football and in particular our gameplan.

I know a lot aren't as confident as I am about Langford but I think he's going to take a massive step up next year. Add to that the natural improvement of Parish, Merrett and continued development of McGrath then we will look a lot better.

We have the whole off season to refine our midfield setup and then it will most likely take a few weeks of the regular season to hits it's straps.

Maybe long term you will be proven right. For 2018 I am more skeptical looking at the list.
Langford can become a balanced inside/outside best 22 mid next year but he won't solve the sides contested possession and clearance issues.
McGrath move to midfield will be gradual similar to Parish this year.
Laverde's injuries have delayed his development a lot which has seen him spend a lot of time forward and Begley is a young player that needs more preseasons before being an on the ball player.
Francis looks like settling at half back at the moment.
So for next season to contend for finals we need a ready made (or in Hopper's case ready to explode in 2018) contested/clearance machine to help the side take the next step and to replace Watson.
Watson on average clearances per game is still our best clearance player with 4.8 ahead of Merrett 4.5 and Heppell 4.4. In contested possessions he is 2nd with 10.0 per game with Heppell 1st with 11.1 and Merrett 3rd with 9.5.
We could get a cheaper buy like a Lukas Webb to at least give us a few more options.
Lukas Webb could easily replicate Jarryd Lyons this season who before getting injured performed the inside role very well at GCS being top 16 in the league in both contested possessions and clearances per game.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I can think of more inside guns drafted outside the top 5 than in it.... there's more than 3-4 a year? Strange comment.

Not of the calibre I want.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Not of the calibre I want.

Rockliff Fyfe just off the top... not to your liking? You said one in Parker who's been a lock since day dot. Webb would be an amazing get. Has not played enough for them to ask any more than a 3rd

 

[Killer_Mike]

Maybe long term you will be proven right. For 2018 I am more skeptical looking at the list.
Langford can become a balanced inside/outside best 22 mid next year but he won't solve the sides contested possession and clearance issues.
McGrath move to midfield will be gradual similar to Parish this year.
Laverde's injuries have delayed his development a lot which has seen him spend a lot of time forward and Begley is a young player that needs more preseasons before being an on the ball player.
Francis looks like settling at half back at the moment.
So for next season to contend for finals we need a ready made (or in Hopper's case ready to explode in 2018) contested/clearance machine to help the side take the next step and to replace Watson.
Watson on average clearances per game is still our best clearance player with 4.8 ahead of Merrett 4.5 and Heppell 4.4. In contested possessions he is 2nd with 10.0 per game with Heppell 1st with 11.1 and Merrett 3rd with 9.5.
We could get a cheaper buy like a Lukas Webb to at least give us a few more options.
Lukas Webb could easily replicate Jarryd Lyons this season who before getting injured performed the inside role very well at GCS being top 16 in the league in both contested possessions and clearances per game.

All that is true but Wooshas gameplan is not dependent on clearances.

Yes, if we get gradual improvement in that are then of course it will help. In football it's always about quality of ball movement and having strengths in the right places.

As I stated before I see a midfield waiting to explode. I know I'm not going to get many agreeing with me on this one but I think the building blocks are already in place and it's more about finding that balance. I have nothing to back that up when it comes to stats but all I can go on is how I believe it will pan out. I am going out on a limb and backing my own judgement and I think we have what it takes.

This time next year you can bring this post up if you like get stuck into me if it doesn't eventuate

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Rockliff Fyfe just off the top... not to your liking? You said one in Parker who's been a lock since day dot. Webb would be an amazing get. Has not played enough for them to ask any more than a 3rd

Outliers not common place and Fyfe ended up a much different player than projected.

Had a quick look at the drafts 2010-2014 and 13 was the only one that stood out with Cripps, Jones, Dunstan, Sheed, Crouch and Hewett taken outside the top 5. Though even a few of them have questionable long term quality.

 

[Teflon Dons]

Outliers not common place and Fyfe ended up a much different player than projected.

Had a quick look at the drafts 2010-2014 and 13 was the only one that stood out with Cripps, Jones, Dunstan, Sheed, Crouch and Hewett taken outside the top 5. Though even a few of them have questionable long term quality.

The whole bulldogs engine room bar the Bont... I haven't even looked yet mate. They're everywhere. Hannebery?? Lol this game is easy

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The whole bulldogs engine room bar the Bont... I haven't even looked yet mate. They're everywhere.

Except remove Bont and it's not a premiership midfield. That's the point, you need quality, it's like pointing at premiership player Craig Bird and saying there is our missing piece. It's just not true.