List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

[_RT_]

 

[YeOldTiger]

Is there anything reported of any substance that Bolton has met with in WA side? I call BS

I stated here a week ago during the bye that Shai had made a media commitment here in Perth to promote a charity fun run. There were Eagles and Dockers people all over the place and lots of chatting going on and being a smaller city the WHOLE sporting media descended on the event.

There were so many media headlines the next day about Bakes and Shai meeting with the local teams here and the Eastern States media took the bait and ran with the story.

Like you, I call BS.

At the very least it's speculation and it's best to wait and see what happens before you start potting blokes loyalty. Shai and Daniel Rioli are on long term deals. We aren't in salary cap trouble are we ? Why would we trade out our best players ?? Unless they ask for a trade or its the deal of the century tell them to FRO.

Oh and for the 500th time, Liam Baker bought his SECOND investment property in Perth earlier this year. Perth is a great place to invest. It doesn't mean he's gone either. I'd be very surprised if our VC leaves at all. The one thing we know about Bakes is that he gives it everything, because we picked him when nobody else would.

This rubbish is all just grist for the Mill. Don't buy into it !

 

[French Tiger]

Going to be a magnificent off season...

Back to the good old days of the trade period the one thing for us to look forward to !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[59Stanley]

We seemed to get our drafting and trading closer to industry standard(or better) when Francis Jackson started full time in 2006.

From there lower finishes 2006-2012 inclusive, where we finished from the bottom of the ladder 8th 1st 8th 2nd 2nd 6th 7th produced:

Trades - Polak, McMahon, A Thomson, M Farmer, S Morris, I Maric, A Edwards

Draft - Riewoldt(13), Edwards(26), J King(rookie), Cotchin(2), Rance(18), Vickery(8)....recruiting department expanded for 2009.....Martin(3), Griffiths(19), Astbury(35), Grimes(PSD), Conca(6), Batchelor(30), Houli(PSD), B Ellis(15), Vlastuin(9), McIntosh(31)

So in uncompromised drafts we'd have got picks 1 2 2 6 7 8 8

What we actually got was picks 2 3 6 8 8(traded for Polak + pick 13) 9 15

To balance that slightly we got 1 priority pick at pick 18.

From that across 7 consecutive drafts when we finished bottom 8 on the ladder, we produced the following players with very significant careers:

Rd 1 picks - Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance, B Ellis, Vlastuin

Rd 2 picks - Edwards, Astbury, McIntosh

later, rookie or PSD picks - Grimes, Houli

Trades, Ivan Maric and Steve Morris have proven the 2 most valuable of those, partly for deeds off field & post career.

We actually did very well with our high picks over that 7 year period, but we dropped away sharply with lower picks producing relatively little. But since 2014 the recruiting department has been fully stocked to industry standard and we seem to do much better with later picks.

I do think you are right, you get a lot more decent players in more quickly these days if you had a series of lower finishes on the ladder. We seem to consistently produce a decent player per year with our later picks or SSP/MSD. The likes of Bauer, Blight, Mansell, Baker, Short, Graham, Lefau, Young, Miller, Ross, Ryan, Coulthard, Ralphsmith, Campbell, Trezise, Gray, Smith, perhaps Green - the best 9-10 of these taken pick 40 or later over the last 10 years are likely to form almost half of our 2027 team. We were shocking with these lower value picks 2006-14. So there is almost 1 best 22 footballer per year we are finding now surplus to that period. Then as you say, free agents. We have been sparing but Lynch is obviously the big one we landed. You couldn't do that through most of the period we were building our Premiership teams.

We drafted 10 players who went on to have finals level significant careers between 2006-12 in those 7 drafts. There is every chance you could do that in around 3-4 drafts now, and we basically already commenced in 2021. We will get sufficient opportunity, it will just come down to whether the guys we pick turn out to be good, very good or like Cotchin, Dusty, Riewoldt, Rance etc, absolutely outstanding.

Great post MR

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Don’t really care who goes as long it’s for the right price and the club knows where it’s at, ie: ground zero not playing finals for a couple. Replenish with some A-Grade mids thru the next 2 drafts who can run & kick - FOS definitely - and actually develop Clarke, Sonz, Brown, KMc, Campbell, etc. These kids can play a bit but need much better fitness & coaching. Watching the side develop from ‘13 to the flags was epic, & happy to start the ride again as long as it’s developing players not list cloggers.
* would offload Graham, short & Bolton in a heart beat tho…

This sums it up perfectly for me but I hope we don't push any trade, there will be guys that want to leave and let them leave for the right price but guys like Baker, Bolton, rioli etc we only trade if they request it.

Graham probably the only one we nudge out the door.

 

[_RT_]

Dude if we played in a grand final in 4/5 years there one bloke on our list that I would have as favourite for the Norm Smith Medal and that's Shai Bolton.

At 25 Dusty wasn't perfect and didn't do all the defensive stuff required every time but Dimma came up with a game plan to use players strengths to cover various parts of the ground. It worked great because he famously said that he'd utilise their strengths and cover their weaknesses.

I don't want to see Shai Bolton winning the Normie in purple or blue and gold. That would kill ! Knowing he was out guy and we traded him out because he wasn't perfect.

Unless Shai Bolton asks to leave we would be crazy to part with him just when he's going to peak for the next few years.

I think people are forgetting what this guy can do when he's switched on, motivated, and we are heading for finals. He's your cherry on the top that wins you the flag. There's maybe half a dozen in the comp.

He signed on for five years. Let's look at what he can do, not what he can't and build the team around the bloke.

Geez, it ain't rocket surgery.

Again, I'm not saying to shift Bolton out. I'm saying that there are queries about him and just how happy he actually is.

Remember these guys signed deals when Hardwick was coach and since then Hardwick has left, and these have been changes in game styles and structures, so maybe just maybe players like Bolton & Rioli are having a look at what is out there for them if they don't feel like they're going to get what they're wanting in their careers by staying.

 

[Bird Man]

Damien Hardwick owes Richmond nothing. Zero. Zilch. Richmond fans owe Hardwick a beer, every single one of us.

Anyone who thinks he owes us anything is either deluded, suffering short term memory loss or was on the dark side of the moon for 37 years since 1982.

okay mate

 

[voorhees]

I think we will be in the wilderness for 4 to 6 years, and Bolton is the type of player who will be wasted in our side, yet also overrated.

He will only thrive in a good team.

this is correct
we will be swimming in the low end of the ladder for years to come.
take the pain now and trade quality and exchange with quality kids..
let them build and then we attack with our next premiership run

 

[docko911]

If Baker was looking to go back to WA and Freo was an option, I’d be keeping a close eye on Erasmus. They may not want to let him go but their midfield depth may be a reason for him to leave. A bit of a risk but he’s a very young 3rd year tall midfielder with decent numbers in the WAFL.

 

[tigerdan]

Back to the good old days of the trade period the one thing for us to look forward to !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait until bob starts a sack yze thread then slinks off for a few years when we start winning flags.

 

[Pattiger]

It’s never just about drafting, especially now free agency plays a massive role along with every other very-able

Drafting is absolutely one of the key ingredient but it shouldn’t be solely focused on at the detriment of the bigger picture

Look at Carlton, over the past 10 years I wouldn’t say they have drafted well
They have had some great picks but also some absolute shockers

But they wouldn’t be in the position they are in now without the likes of Cerra, Fogarty, Kennedy, Martin, Williams, Hollands, Newman, Acres, Hewitt, Saad and Pittonet along with many more who were never drafted by Carlton

No 1 Draft Pick - Sydney Recruiting Team - they have selected some brillian players !

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No 1 Draft Pick - Sydney Recruiting Team - they have selected some brillian players !

Let's look at their 1st or 2nd round failures 2014 onwards...

2014 - Rose(37) Hiscox(38) Heeney(they used pick 18 but he was nominated at pick 3, academy gift)

2015 - only pick in first 2 rounds was academy gift Mills(3)

2016 - moderate successes Florent(11) Hayward(21)

2017 - Ling(14)

2018 - One of their 2 great picks from the first 2 rounds was an academy gift, Blakey(10)

2019 - Stehpens(5) Gould(26) Taylor(36) Swans rated all of them higher than Warner(39)

2020 - They had pick 4(McDonald) plus 2 x academy gifts Campbell(5) & Gulden(32)

Take out the 5 major academy gifts Gulden, Campbell, Blakey, Mills, Heeney, and replace those with what the picks would have otherwise got them, how good do their recruiters look then? They have had some great picks, especially Rowbottom(25) McInerney(44) Warner(39 - they rated at least 3 total spuds higher than him so they didnt rate him highly) Hayward(21) Papley(rookie) McCartin(33) Amartey(rookie). But is this better than us getting Bolton(29) Balta(25) Baker(rookie) Short(rookie) D Rioli(15) Broad(67) M Rioli(52) Brown(17) Graham(53) Campbell(rookie) Miller(63) Ross(43) ?

If you take out their academy gifts and even replace them with the average strike rate of their other rd 1 & 2 picks at the picks they used, their recruiting is no better than ours over the last 10 years. And they have won 3 less flags in that period.

 

[Morro]

Let's look at their 1st or 2nd round failures 2014 onwards...

2014 - Rose(37) Hiscox(38) Heeney(they used pick 18 but he was nominated at pick 3, academy gift)

2015 - only pick in first 2 rounds was academy gift Mills(3)

2016 - moderate successes Florent(11) Hayward(21)

2017 - Ling(14)

2018 - One of their 2 great picks from the first 2 rounds was an academy gift, Blakey(10)

2019 - Stehpens(5) Gould(26) Taylor(36) Swans rated all of them higher than Warner(39)

2020 - They had pick 4(McDonald) plus 2 x academy gifts Campbell(5) & Gulden(32)

Take out the 5 major academy gifts Gulden, Campbell, Blakey, Mills, Heeney, and replace those with what the picks would have otherwise got them, how good do their recruiters look then? They have had some great picks, especially Rowbottom(25) McInerney(44) Warner(39 - they rated at least 3 total spuds higher than him so they didnt rate him highly) Hayward(21) Papley(rookie) McCartin(33) Amartey(rookie). But is this better than us getting Bolton(29) Balta(25) Baker(rookie) Short(rookie) D Rioli(15) Broad(67) M Rioli(52) Brown(17) Graham(53) Campbell(rookie) Miller(63) Ross(43) ?

If you take out their academy gifts and even replace them with the average strike rate of their other rd 1 & 2 picks at the picks they used, their recruiting is no better than ours over the last 10 years. And they have won 3 less flags in that period.

When you break it down like that, wow.

Although I would argue 2016 is much better than moderate.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

When you break it down like that, wow.

Although I would argue 2016 is much better than moderate.

Fair enough, but they are not outrageous successes, just quality role players at 11 & 21.

I believe the Swans recruiting department is good, but I also believe ours has been just as good with the picks we were given, probably comfortably better.

Obviously these academies under the current system are now creating enormous recruiting disparities as we can see, so the AFL is right to step in and alter the system, which should make a few more of these guys available to other clubs.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

He’s the closest thing we have to him on our list and potentially just as damaging as a player in that mid fwd role and he hasn’t even hit his prime yet

It’s not like he’s 29 and got a handful of good years yet
Bolton is only 25

Unless you think we are going to be in the wilderness for over 6 years no way would you even consider moving him on

Like I said earlier it’s not like we won’t already have a decent amount of picks this year

You have to take into account he's already achieved what every footballer strives for.Premierships x2 with us.If he has been offered a huge contract by a club back in his home state who as it stands has won jack shit then perhaps thats what it comes down too.Motivation.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Is there anything reported of any substance that Bolton has met with in WA side? I call BS

He's meeting Freo this week.

 

[Morro]

He's meeting Freo this week.

Hmm, hopefully we get some footage this time

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Hmm, hopefully we get some footage this time

Need to keep an eye on when they kick a goal.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Fair enough, but they are not outrageous successes, just quality role players at 11 & 21.

I believe the Swans recruiting department is good, but I also believe ours has been just as good with the picks we were given, probably comfortably better.

Obviously these academies under the current system are now creating enormous recruiting disparities as we can see, so the AFL is right to step in and alter the system, which should make a few more of these guys available to other clubs.

Yeah, reality is our supporters bemoan the complete lack of elite quality we’ve drafted at the pointy end of the draft in the last 12-years … conveniently leaving out the small problem being that we haven’t had any pointy end picks


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Rocco sifreddi]

Yeah, reality is our supporters bemoan the complete lack of elite quality we’ve drafted at the pointy end of the draft in the last 12-years … conveniently leaving out the small problem being that we haven’t had any pointy end picks


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

When you win flags that's what happens
Now we can capitalise on this
Our recruitment department better have their finger on the pulse ,

 

[SplintWhisky]

Yeah, reality is our supporters bemoan the complete lack of elite quality we’ve drafted at the pointy end of the draft in the last 12-years … conveniently leaving out the small problem being that we haven’t had any pointy end picks


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Also picks being thrown back due to new teams.

 

[db26]

When you win flags that's what happens
Now we can capitalise on this
Our recruitment department better have their finger on the pulse ,

Agree to a extent, but our footy department made a few bad calls to last 2 seasons. They need a revamp.

Going for both Hooper and Taranto was a mistake, should have been one only and use the other picks in the draft.

Not reading the writing on the wall with Dimma that his done and checked out.

The rejuvenation of our side should have started 2 years ago blooding the kids.

Not getting the best support staff in the footy club medical and fitness, coaches, recruitment staff etc.

 

[Morro]

Agree to a extent, but our footy department made a few bad calls to last 2 seasons. They need a revamp.

Going for both Hooper and Taranto was a mistake, should have been one only and use the other picks in the draft.

Not reading the writing on the wall with Dimma that his done and checked out.

The rejuvenation of our side should have started 2 years ago blooding the kids.

Not getting the best support staff in the footy club medical and fitness, coaches, recruitment staff etc.

If Hopper ever gets to play most weeks, I genuinely think people will see why we took both.

 

[Ctl]

Mcdonald re-signs with the swans, means Baker is the only player from WA that is a chance to move back home.

 

[Bojangles17]

Building a list is an art form. No doubt. Yes it requires balance of draft, trade and free agency.

But when a draft comes along like this, where the top 25-30 picks are in one recruiters words “As good as I’ve ever seen” you need to pull the trigger and say, this is where we can capatalise and get in A grade talent to develop together. Next phase is add to that through draft, trade and FA.

I’m all for trading our older talent to get into the first round this year and next years draft.

We need to be assertive that’s for sure , get it right and it could save us 18mths

 

[Bojangles17]

Mcdonald re-signs with the swans, means Baker is the only player from WA that is a chance to move back home.

Busslinger