Recruiting Trade & Free Agency VIII

[Lore]

ATTENTION OPPOSITION POSTERS: You are on the Essendon board - not the draft board, or the main board or your club board. You are welcome to post here but you will mind your manners or you will be carded. Don't waltz in here telling the locals what's happening/not happening, what's dumb etc. By the same token sealioning will also not be tolerated so be warned. You do not have equal standing here no matter how right you think you are.

Spoiler: AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY KEY DATES 2020

Draft Combine
Tuesday October 1 - Friday October 4

AFL Grand Final
Saturday October 24

Free Agency Window
Friday October 30 – Friday November 6

AFL Trade Period (Players and picks)
Wednesday November 4 – 7.30pm Thursday November 12

List Lodgement 1
Wednesday November 25

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Thursday November 26 - Sunday November 29

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Monday November 30

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Monday November 30 - Tuesday December 1

AFL Trade Period (Picks only)
Concludes Thursday December 3

National Draft
7pm Wednesday December 9

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
12pm Thursday December 10

Final List Lodgement
Mid-December (tbc)

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
Wednesday January 6, 2021 – will conclude prior to the start of the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

Spoiler: DRAFT ORDER

Any issues with it post in this thread:

Draft discussion goes here: Draft Watch

Father/Son & NGA discussion goes here: James Hird Academy (Father/Son and Next Generation)

Poll results: Who should stay? | Which key forward do you want? | What would you give up to get Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

?

 

[Fin ice Smuggler]

If Joe goes, I'd target kids, don't try and replace him unless it's Jeremy Cameron.

even then Cameron will be chewing up our salary cap and he's almost having a sook session this season.

I wish we'd go to our heart and soul and become the baby bombers with a couple of vets that might have 1 or 2 years left but display leadership and on field coaching. Like if he's back wasn't screwed a Ben Cunnington or Jack Ziebell type - whoever it is provide them with a coaching path so they're invested in the club and not coming on a retirement plan - This was the GWS model.

I'd trade out Heppell if he's worth anything? I'd cut our losses and trade Shiel if we got decent value (I think the Blues, Dees and Hawks would be interested in him). I'd also look at trading Hurley (again if we only received fair value - That doesnt mean a top 10 draft pick).

You'd then throw cat amongst the pigeons for pre season and challenge the playing group to stand up - who is going to be the next premiership captain for this club

Port were in trouble a couple years ago and traded our Polec, Wingard and the saints full back last year, with clever drafting they ave turned themselves with kids.

Of course this wont happen because Essendon are too soft and if anything this should have happened in 2016 when David King wrote an article that essendon had a chance to become the new GWS.

 

[bombreys]

I think that’s a misnomer, ask yourself who’s driving the bus? The midfield group has some experience in Merrett, Shiel and Heppell but is still shallow on experience and maturity. Saad, Ridley and Hurley captain the defence and our most experienced forward is Stringer.

Zaharakis and Hooker are the only blokes on the list that have played more than 200 games but one is not best 22 at present and the other is far past his best and is doing the consummate team thing by playing whichever end is required at the expense of his own continuity and form.

This is a very inexperienced group being driven almost exclusively by players 26 and under that haven’t played a lot of footy together and are struggling to implement a plan and play together. It’s absolutely screaming for leadership and hardness more than anything else IMO.

In two or three years, that might be the case - but the fact that we refuse to hold our veterans accountable changes things a bit.

If we were playing guys like Jones/Gown/Mutch/Ham/Crauford/Cahill/etc., I would agree, but we're not.

When Hodge came in for Brisbane, he was playing next to guys like Harris Andrews, Witherden, Gardner, McStay,etc.

Hodge isn't going to come in and help Hooker, Hurley, Saad & Gleeson.

At full strength, McGrath is the only real young player getting time in the middle.

And up forward, our main cogs are Daniher (26), Stringer (26), AMT (27) and Stewart (26)/McKernan (30).

The 'group' or list might be inexperienced as a whole/when you average out age/games played - but it doesn't really matter if the younger guys don't play.

I do agree we could use a tougher type player coming in, but overall we just need generally better players coming in. Unless something changes, we're going to keep being the "we'll be better next year" team, and continue to finish 8th-12th each year.

If Joe leaves and Zakka, Hurley, Hooker, McKernan and Bellchambers retire over the next year or so, I think that'd be a better time than now to bring in a guy like Hodge.

 

[bombreys]

I think people don't realise just how inexperienced our playing group is, this is the list of every player with > 50 games played. A lot of the most experienced guys are injury prone, borderline best-22, or not a leadership type.

Hooker & Hurley are our experienced heads, and amazingly, our defence is the most organised area of the ground for us with it being the only area with long term continuity and leadership. Add Saad with > 100 games, and Ridley playing well beyond his experience.

Shiel, Smith & Merrett are our midfield leaders, Heppell has struggled for fitness over the last two years and it's really shown. Our current best ruckman has played 6 games.

The forward-line... well I can't imagine Stringer or McDonald-Tipungwuti explaining modern defensive structures to the guys mid-game.

Our overall playing list is young/inexperienced - but the 22 who run out each week really aren't.

Each of the above guys on the list is pretty much guaranteed a game when healthy - though you could probably take Bellchambers name off the list now (or in 2 games time).

I just don't like using the 'we're young excuse' when we barely play the younger players on our list.

 

[faible]

Our overall playing list is young/inexperienced - but the 22 who run out each week really aren't.

Each of the above guys on the list is pretty much guaranteed a game when healthy - though you could probably take Bellchambers name off the list now (or in 2 games time).

I just don't like using the 'we're young excuse' when we barely play the younger players on our list.

Last week we fielded a side with an average ave of 25yr 2 months and games played of 86.5 - Geelong was 26yr 10mo and 121.9 games played - you'll find that was a less experienced side than bottom 8 sides Carlton, Fremantle, Hawthorn, North Melbourne & Adelaide for last round, along with 6/8 of the top-8 sides. It doesn't sound like a lot but 40ish games is 2 extra seasons worth of AFL games played; imagine how much better McGrath and Ridley will be with an additional two seasons under them in their positions.

Whilst we're not exactly playing the kids, we're also not playing the older guys either. Our oldest and most experienced team for the year was against Sydney and topped out at 97.4 games played and an average age of 26yr 0mo, including guys like Bellchambers, Zaharakis and McKernan who are all borderline best 22. Whilst most of the genuine Top-4 sides can wheel out teams > 100 games played most weeks.

Our youngest has been against St Kilda with 67.2 and 24yr 8mo, and GCS rolls out a team with > 70 games average experience most week for comparison.

We have a young list demographic with a few older guys that are either very experienced, or journeymen. We lack a good collection of guys in their prime years, with significant experience.

 

[Zach Package]

^ Something no one inside or outside the club wants to admit

 

[citizen-erased]

Last week we fielded a side with an average ave of 25yr 2 months and games played of 86.5 - Geelong was 26yr 10mo and 121.9 games played - you'll find that was a less experienced side than bottom 8 sides Carlton, Fremantle, Hawthorn, North Melbourne & Adelaide for last round, along with 6/8 of the top-8 sides. It doesn't sound like a lot but 40ish games is 2 extra seasons worth of AFL games played; imagine how much better McGrath and Ridley will be with an additional two seasons under them in their positions.

Whilst we're not exactly playing the kids, we're also not playing the older guys either. Our oldest and most experienced team for the year was against Sydney and topped out at 97.4 games played and an average age of 26yr 0mo, including guys like Bellchambers, Zaharakis and McKernan who are all borderline best 22. Whilst most of the genuine Top-4 sides can wheel out teams > 100 games played most weeks.

Our youngest has been against St Kilda with 67.2 and 24yr 8mo, and GCS rolls out a team with > 70 games average experience most week for comparison.

We have a young list demographic with a few older guys that are either very experienced, or journeymen. We lack a good collection of guys in their prime years, with significant experience.

Experience together.

You look at our mid-agers: Saad, Stringer, Shiel, Stewart, Smith - all brought in rather than developed together with our other players in that age group & with the kids coming through.

Ridley, Draper and McGrath have been at the club longer.

Hence where i think Woosha is saying we're a bit behind other clubs. All this focus on the "unit." We're too fragmented in that respect
If you look at recent premiers, their 22 had largely been playing together for quite some time together.

 

[faible]

Experience together.

You look at our mid-agers: Saad, Stringer, Shiel, Stewart, Smith - all brought in rather than developed together with our other players in that age group & with the kids coming through.

Ridley, Draper and McGrath have been at the club longer.

Hence where i think Woosha is saying we're a bit behind other clubs. All this focus on the "unit." We're too fragmented in that respect
If you look at recent premiers, their 22 had largely been playing together for quite some time together.

Also this, many of our most experienced players either have been traded in, injured, or are borderline best-22 if they're even fit.

Guys like McGrath, Ridley and Draper are still a couple of years off really being at their best, and we'd be relying on Smith / Saad / Shiel / Stringer to still be playing top level football by then.

 

[citizen-erased]

Also this, many of our most experienced players either have been traded in, injured, or are borderline best-22 if they're even fit.

Guys like McGrath, Ridley and Draper are still a couple of years off really being at their best, and we'd be relying on Smith / Saad / Shiel / Stringer to still be playing top level football by then.

feeling the pinch of 2010-2012 being poor drafts too.

Steinberg, Browne, O'Brien, Kav, Browne, Ashby, Van Unen - those late 1st thru 3rd picks left a hole. you'd ideally nail 2 or 3 of those and have some bodies like Parker, Neale, Ross, Yeo, Hill, Lyons around the ground

 

[doug85]

What do you think we’d get for AMT?

 

[Milanista28]

What do you think we’d get for AMT?

15-20 - Lions have 2 picks in that area they'd definitely consider him I think. GWS would love him as well.

 

[faible]

feeling the pinch of 2010-2012 being poor drafts too.

Steinberg, Browne, O'Brien, Kav, Browne, Ashby, Van Unen - those late 1st thru 3rd picks left a hole. you'd ideally nail 2 or 3 of those and have some bodies like Parker, Neale, Ross, Yeo, Hill, Lyons around the ground

Steinberg over Parker will haunt us until the day Luke Parker retires.

 

[citizen-erased]

Steinberg over Parker will haunt us until the day Luke Parker retires.

the recruitment team still havent done enough for me to forgive them for that one

Ridley has nearly made up for it.

 

[doug85]

15-20 - Lions have 2 picks in that area they'd definitely consider him I think. GWS would love him as well.

If we want to be ruthless I think it’s worth considering.

 

[ghostdog]

If we want to be ruthless I think it’s worth considering.

We don't have a small forward of Walla's calibre to replace him with. In my view, ruthless would be trading out a well performed player in an area of the ground where we can cover the loss. Hurley, Parish, Shiel etc. Trading Daniher would be ruthless and contradicts what I've just said, but the potential return on that trade is more wothwhile.

 

[Haychh]

We won't let Walla go. Members are already ready to riot, imagine if we lost our 2 most marketable players (Joe and Walla) in one offseason

 

[andleanback]

If we want to be ruthless I think it’s worth considering.

Trading Tippa would be silly, especially as Mozzie is out for 12 months and would leave a gaping hole on our list.

 

[Lore]

Problem: The list is full of holes.

Solution: Poke more holes.

 

[Milanista28]

Problem: The list is full of holes.

Solution: Poke more holes.

The quicker we sink the sooner the real rebuild starts maybe?

 

[Zach Package]

In two or three years, that might be the case - but the fact that we refuse to hold our veterans accountable changes things a bit.

If we were playing guys like Jones/Gown/Mutch/Ham/Crauford/Cahill/etc., I would agree, but we're not.

When Hodge came in for Brisbane, he was playing next to guys like Harris Andrews, Witherden, Gardner, McStay,etc.

Hodge isn't going to come in and help Hooker, Hurley, Saad & Gleeson.

At full strength, McGrath is the only real young player getting time in the middle.

And up forward, our main cogs are Daniher (26), Stringer (26), AMT (27) and Stewart (26)/McKernan (30).

The 'group' or list might be inexperienced as a whole/when you average out age/games played - but it doesn't really matter if the younger guys don't play.

I do agree we could use a tougher type player coming in, but overall we just need generally better players coming in. Unless something changes, we're going to keep being the "we'll be better next year" team, and continue to finish 8th-12th each year.

If Joe leaves and Zakka, Hurley, Hooker, McKernan and Bellchambers retire over the next year or so, I think that'd be a better time than now to bring in a guy like Hodge.

As well as Rich, Lester, Bewick, a bit of Josh Walker, it was a bit of a mish mash group that really gelled and grew while he was there, they don’t have to be 20 year old kids to be able to learn things and grow as players.

Is there someone out there that can do what Hodge did for Brisbane’s defensive group? Or going back a few what Daniel Cross and Jordan Lewis did for Melbourne’s midfield? Set lasting, non negotiable standards that endure and resonate with anyone that walks in the door?

I’m not sure there is but I’d be certainly keeping ears to the floor. That’s where you’re going to get your lasting and potentially rapid improvement from, not by blowing everything up and starting again. To me the fact that we are able to play a desperate, manic, forward half pressure game but only when we feel like it is down to fitness and the fact that Devon Smith is the only real lead by example genuinely tough prick we have. It might not even be a player coach, it might be an assistant who’s voice genuinely resonates.

As far as what we do about it, not panic would be rule number 1

 

[doug85]

Trading Tippa would be silly, especially as Mozzie is out for 12 months and would leave a gaping hole on our list.

Cahill, Smith, Snelling, Lachlan Johnson, townsend and Parish.They won’t all be playing in the midfield at once.

Also, tippa has done 2/5s of **** all this year. He won’t leave as bigger hole as you’d think.

 

[doug85]

We won't let Walla go. Members are already ready to riot, imagine if we lost our 2 most marketable players (Joe and Walla) in one offseason

The club shouldn’t be held to ransom by the members. If we were a strong club we’d do what’s right for the list.

Trading Walla is just an idea. I’m not saying it’s objectively the right thing to do. But folding to members is not the right thing if it goes against the best interests of the club.

 

[andleanback]

Cahill, Smith, Snelling, Lachlan Johnson, townsend and Parish.They won’t all be playing in the midfield at once.

Also, tippa has done 2/5s of fu** all this year. He won’t leave as bigger hole as you’d think.

If tippa wasn’t so unselfish he’d have the most goals in the comp for a small forward this year. He has 19, papley has 22 yet his season gets talked up all the time. Non of those players you mention bring what tippa offers.

 

[doug85]

If tippa wasn’t so unselfish he’d have the most goals in the comp for a small forward this year. He has 19, papley has 22 yet his season gets talked up all the time. Non of those players you mention bring what tippa offers.

Tippa isn’t in Papleys league. You’re comparing one stat. And I think tippas “unselfishness” is just a lack of confidence.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Tippa is a good player. But maybe he has enough currency to get us a decent draft pick or to be used as currency for a very good player.

He’s also 28 in April. Not exactly a spring chicken and i don’t think he’s ever gotten in super shape. I just don’t think he’ll get better than what he is now. A good, but somewhat inconsistent small forward.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Tippa isn’t in Papleys league. You’re comparing one stat. And I think tippas “unselfishness” is just a lack of confidence.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Tippa is a good player. But maybe he has enough currency to get us a decent draft pick or to be used as currency for a very good player.

He’s also 28 in April. Not exactly a spring chicken and i don’t think he’s ever gotten in super shape. I just don’t think he’ll get better than what he is now. A good, but somewhat inconsistent small forward.

Nah, no way. It's selflessness. Last weeks attempted pass to Mozz is a prime example. You reckon he lacks that much confidence he doesn't think he can kick it from 10m out? He boots them from 50 regularly.

He also passed off several goals to McKernan this year but IMO they were to try and bring him into the game because he was in a pretty rough form slump.

If Tip took all the chances he's given off this year, he'd be on the best part of 30 goals tbh.

 

[doug85]

Nah, no way. It's selflessness. Last weeks attempted pass to Mozz is a prime example. You reckon he lacks that much confidence he doesn't think he can kick it from 10m out? He boots them from 50 regularly.

He also passed off several goals to McKernan this year but IMO they were to try and bring him into the game because he was in a pretty rough form slump.

If Tip took all the chances he's given off this year, he'd be on the best part of 30 goals tbh.

Passing from 10 metres out was an insane idea. Definitely should have taken the shot.

And I wasn’t talking about that moment in isolation as evidence of a lack of confidence.I’ve seen him pass quite a few other times when he should have pulled the trigger.

And as for this “if he took all his chances business” - it’s irrelevant. He didn’t take them. A high quality small forward would have nailed them. It’s his job.

And again, he is a good player. Hence having trade value.