Recruiting Trade & Free Agency VIII

[Lore]

ATTENTION OPPOSITION POSTERS: You are on the Essendon board - not the draft board, or the main board or your club board. You are welcome to post here but you will mind your manners or you will be carded. Don't waltz in here telling the locals what's happening/not happening, what's dumb etc. By the same token sealioning will also not be tolerated so be warned. You do not have equal standing here no matter how right you think you are.

Spoiler: AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY KEY DATES 2020

Draft Combine
Tuesday October 1 - Friday October 4

AFL Grand Final
Saturday October 24

Free Agency Window
Friday October 30 – Friday November 6

AFL Trade Period (Players and picks)
Wednesday November 4 – 7.30pm Thursday November 12

List Lodgement 1
Wednesday November 25

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Thursday November 26 - Sunday November 29

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Monday November 30

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Monday November 30 - Tuesday December 1

AFL Trade Period (Picks only)
Concludes Thursday December 3

National Draft
7pm Wednesday December 9

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
12pm Thursday December 10

Final List Lodgement
Mid-December (tbc)

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
Wednesday January 6, 2021 – will conclude prior to the start of the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

Spoiler: DRAFT ORDER

Any issues with it post in this thread:

Draft discussion goes here: Draft Watch

Father/Son & NGA discussion goes here: James Hird Academy (Father/Son and Next Generation)

Poll results: Who should stay? | Which key forward do you want? | What would you give up to get Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

?

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Surely someone at the club will contact Rance this off-season.

 

[BrunoV]

To be blunt. Personally I think we need to be brutal. We either need the best trade period ever by any club or we have to bite the bullet and admit we need a deeper rebuild.

It only works if we're trading mids out.

 

[Yoda_]

Surely someone eneds to rocket Joe and find out his intentions for 2021. Him stalling is obviously having a flow on effect to the next rung guys we are wanting to re - sign.

 

[westking]

Surely someone eneds to rocket Joe and find out his intentions for 2021. Him stalling is obviously having a flow on effect to the next rung guys we are wanting to re - sign.

I think the club is assuming he is gone. I hope they are also considering exploiting his restricted free agent status to maximise return, if he indeed decides to leave again.

 

[eth-dog]

Surely someone eneds to rocket Joe and find out his intentions for 2021. Him stalling is obviously having a flow on effect to the next rung guys we are wanting to re - sign.

Nah, happy with them waiting.

 

[Lore]

This explains the rule about trading our first rounder:

Hands tied: Why two big Vic clubs can't trade first pick

The clubs will both need to take a first-round pick to this year's NAB AFL Draft under League rules

www.afl.com.au

Also some interesting bits:

• If Joe leaves and we get a first rounder as FA compensation, that pick would satisfy the criteria and we'd be able to trade one or the other out, as long as we still had a first rounder to take to the draft.
• If we bring in a free agent (e.g. Brad Crouch) that would negate any compensation we got for Joe, if Joe left.
• We can apply to trade out our first round pick if the player we bring in with that pick is of a suitable age and quality.
• Our first round pick could move up a spot as Freo's pick has to slide back to repay the deficit they incurred when matching a bid last year.

 

[bombreys]

I’d almost do the opposite. You obviously do the requisite cutting if you believe they can’t help us (see Zaharakis) but I’d prioritise meaningfully experienced hard asses that can help the midfield group develop the way we want to play on the track and in games.

Someone who can do what Hodge did for Brisbane’s defence. Took a bunch of talented pieces (which we have, don’t get that part twisted) and weaponised them.

we don’t have the pieces Brisbane have - they were an up and coming young side who needed a leader, especially down back

we’re a mid/older side, on the way down. Unless we got rid of a handful of vets, that sort of player isn’t going to help us

 

[Zach Package]

we don’t have the pieces Brisbane have - they were an up and coming young side who needed a leader, especially down back

we’re a mid/older side, on the way down. Unless we got rid of a handful of vets, that sort of player isn’t going to help us

I think that’s a misnomer, ask yourself who’s driving the bus? The midfield group has some experience in Merrett, Shiel and Heppell but is still shallow on experience and maturity. Saad, Ridley and Hurley captain the defence and our most experienced forward is Stringer.

Zaharakis and Hooker are the only blokes on the list that have played more than 200 games but one is not best 22 at present and the other is far past his best and is doing the consummate team thing by playing whichever end is required at the expense of his own continuity and form.

This is a very inexperienced group being driven almost exclusively by players 26 and under that haven’t played a lot of footy together and are struggling to implement a plan and play together. It’s absolutely screaming for leadership and hardness more than anything else IMO.

 

[ghostdog]

I can't believe we're interested in Brad Crouch. Wrong side of 25 and overpriced. If Daniher goes and we forfeit compensation for Crouch there will be all sorts of spew.

 

[faible]

I can't believe we're interested in Brad Crouch. Wrong side of 25 and overpriced. If Daniher goes and we forfeit compensation for Crouch there will be all sorts of spew.

Would also spew. No thanks Brad.

 

[doug85]

From the Herald Sun re our interest in Viney:
”Hawthorn is another club which could make a play, while Essendon is targeting a big-bodied midfielder but is believed to have other targets in mind.”

Geelong keen FTR.

 

[faible]

I think that’s a misnomer, ask yourself who’s driving the bus? The midfield group has some experience in Merrett, Shiel and Heppell but is still shallow on experience and maturity. Saad, Ridley and Hurley captain the defence and our most experienced forward is Stringer.

Zaharakis and Hooker are the only blokes on the list that have played more than 200 games but one is not best 22 at present and the other is far past his best and is doing the consummate team thing by playing whichever end is required at the expense of his own continuity and form.

This is a very inexperienced group being driven almost exclusively by players 26 and under that haven’t played a lot of footy together and are struggling to implement a plan and play together. It’s absolutely screaming for leadership and hardness more than anything else IMO.

I think people don't realise just how inexperienced our playing group is, this is the list of every player with > 50 games played. A lot of the most experienced guys are injury prone, borderline best-22, or not a leadership type.

Hooker & Hurley are our experienced heads, and amazingly, our defence is the most organised area of the ground for us with it being the only area with long term continuity and leadership. Add Saad with > 100 games, and Ridley playing well beyond his experience.

Shiel, Smith & Merrett are our midfield leaders, Heppell has struggled for fitness over the last two years and it's really shown. Our current best ruckman has played 6 games.

The forward-line... well I can't imagine Stringer or McDonald-Tipungwuti explaining modern defensive structures to the guys mid-game.

 

[eth-dog]

From the Herald Sun re our interest in Viney:
”Hawthorn is another club which could make a play, while Essendon is targeting a big-bodied midfielder but is believed to have other targets in mind.”

Geelong keen FTR.

Jack is probably the least likely person to leave Melbourne.

 

[faible]

From the Herald Sun re our interest in Viney:
”Hawthorn is another club which could make a play, while Essendon is targeting a big-bodied midfielder but is believed to have other targets in mind.”

Geelong keen FTR.

Viney is a good inside player, but doesn't solve our inability to take a mark through the middle and isn't a great kick.

 

[Milanista28]

If Joe goes, I'd target kids, don't try and replace him unless it's Jeremy Cameron.

 

[Zach Package]

I think people don't realise just how inexperienced our playing group is, this is the list of every player with > 50 games played. A lot of the most experienced guys are injury prone, borderline best-22, or not a leadership type.

Hooker & Hurley are our experienced heads, and amazingly, our defence is the most organised area of the ground for us with it being the only area with long term continuity and leadership. Add Saad with > 100 games, and Ridley playing well beyond his experience.

Shiel, Smith & Merrett are our midfield leaders, Heppell has struggled for fitness over the last two years and it's really shown. Our current best ruckman has played 6 games.

The forward-line... well I can't imagine Stringer or McDonald-Tipungwuti explaining modern defensive structures to the guys mid-game.

Like I said, average age probably puts us mid pack or slightly older but it’s a misnomer due to a lot of recycled depth players that haven’t played a lot of footy relative to age. McKernan 30 years old for less than 100 games a good example.

I’ve got a slightly different take on Shiel and Stringer and Smith to everyone else on here and clearly the club. I don’t think you’re recruiting them so you can challenge now, I think you’re recruiting them so in 2-3 years when more pieces are in place they’ve played 200+ games and can be your senior leaders. Clearly we haven’t gone far enough in that regard.

 

[Swerving Irv]

Our list management is deplorable. Bang on about the saga all you like, but that list above is damning. How many other teams have so many blokes aged 25/26/27 that have played less than 120 odd games? No wonder there's a dearth of leadership. We need at least two to three consecutive drafts with multiple first and second round picks to remedy this, because our current situation is an absolute clusterf*ck.

 

[faible]

Our list management is deplorable. Bang on about the saga all you like, but that list above is damning. How many other teams have so many blokes aged 25/26/27 that have played less than 120 odd games? No wonder there's a dearth of leadership. We need at least two to three consecutive drafts with multiple first and second round picks to remedy this, because our current situation is an absolute clusterf*ck.

Zach covers it well; we've got an issue in that age bracket post-saga, so have traded to help fill it.

I’ve got a slightly different take on Shiel and Stringer and Smith to everyone else on here and clearly the club. I don’t think you’re recruiting them so you can challenge now, I think you’re recruiting them so in 2-3 years when more pieces are in place they’ve played 200+ games and can be your senior leaders. Clearly we haven’t gone far enough in that regard.

 

[Swerving Irv]

Zach covers it well; we've got an issue in that age bracket post-saga, so have traded to help fill it.

Perhaps, but again Cutler's turning 26 and has played 75 odd games. Townsend even less games. It's beyond terrible. We are probably the worst club at picking up value for money players in the comp (barring Adam Saad). I'm talking about your Hugh Greenwoods, Dan Butlers, Sam Collins etc.

 

[faible]

Perhaps, but again Cutler's turning 26 and has played 75 odd games. Townsend even less games. It's beyond terrible. We are probably the worst club at picking up value for money players in the comp (barring Adam Saad). I'm talking about your Hugh Greenwoods, Dan Butlers, Sam Collins etc.

I was referring to Smith, Saad, Shiel and - to a lesser extent - Stringer.

Cutler has dropped off from the player he was at Brisbane unfortunately, he was never going to be a star but he should have been better than he has been. He basically cost a future 3rd round selection.

Townsend was really only ever recruited as a depth kind of guy to set the appropriate standards, and contribute on-field in a system based team where players need to put team oriented play ahead of individual play. He was a SSP addition, so cost nothing other than some salary.

Townsend has been a tick, Cutler has been a let-down so far, but at 25 has time to prove otherwise.

 

[doug85]

Viney is a good inside player, but doesn't solve our inability to take a mark through the middle and isn't a great kick.

Lucky the club isn’t targeting him then.

 

[Zach Package]

Perhaps, but again Cutler's turning 26 and has played 75 odd games. Townsend even less games. It's beyond terrible. We are probably the worst club at picking up value for money players in the comp (barring Adam Saad). I'm talking about your Hugh Greenwoods, Dan Butlers, Sam Collins etc.

We have had our share of good recycled pick ups like Snelling, Phillips and McKernan (who I suspect is done now but has given good service) plus VFL guys like Ambrose and Walla, but I am glad you touched on Townsend and Cutler.

Cutler has been a bit of a flop but we were crying out for exactly him, a tall winger that can cover ground and has a long leg. It hasn’t worked as yet but I can’t fault them actually recruiting something that was necessary.

Townsend I’ll lump in with Hibberd as something that might just shit me the most this year. What is the point of recruiting Hibberd who’s an inside midfielder by trade and Townsend who won the VFL BNF as an on baller but can obviously play forward a little bit as well and playing one on the wing and one at full forward?

That’s not a recruiting issue.

 

[Swerving Irv]

We have had our share of good recycled pick ups like Snelling, Phillips and McKernan (who I suspect is done now but has given good service) plus VFL guys like Ambrose and Walla, but I am glad you touched on Townsend and Cutler.

Cutler has been a bit of a flop but we were crying out for exactly him, a tall winger that can cover ground and has a long leg. It hasn’t worked as yet but I can’t fault them actually recruiting something that was necessary.

Townsend I’ll lump in with Hibberd as something that might just sh*t me the most this year. What is the point of recruiting Hibberd who’s an inside midfielder by trade and Townsend who won the VFL BNF as an on baller but can obviously play forward a little bit as well and playing one on the wing and one at full forward?

That’s not a recruiting issue.

I'd say you have a good point. Even trying Townsend as a half forward pushing up to half back. Why not try and use he and Langford as the outlet kicks and attempt to keep some semblance of forward structure? As Richmond did somewhat with Grigg and McIntosh.

 

[Milanista28]

Of all the names that have been thrown up I don't think any of them can fix us or at least solve our issues entirely, Hopefully we stick to the draft and/or players under 22 like O'Halloran, RCD etc.

 

[citizen-erased]

This explains the rule about trading our first rounder:

Hands tied: Why two big Vic clubs can't trade first pick

The clubs will both need to take a first-round pick to this year's NAB AFL Draft under League rules

www.afl.com.au

Also some interesting bits:

• If Joe leaves and we get a first rounder as FA compensation, that pick would satisfy the criteria and we'd be able to trade one or the other out, as long as we still had a first rounder to take to the draft.
• If we bring in a free agent (e.g. Brad Crouch) that would negate any compensation we got for Joe, if Joe left.
• We can apply to trade out our first round pick if the player we bring in with that pick is of a suitable age and quality.
• Our first round pick could move up a spot as Freo's pick has to slide back to repay the deficit they incurred when matching a bid last year.

this point is often missed
Whilst the rule is you can't trade, it's an AFL rule. Meaning you can just ask them to be able to flout it.
The idea is clubs don't **** up their list profile for decades by trying to secure one flag....that said, i don't get why but whatever.

We can trade this years pick. Esp if we were getting a 20-23yo gun.

also think we should be asking for an end of 1st rd priority pick for McKenna being hounded out of Australia

I can't believe we're interested in Brad Crouch. Wrong side of 25 and overpriced. If Daniher goes and we forfeit compensation for Crouch there will be all sorts of spew.

We do this, it will prove the club thinks we're in a window. Only way i entertain Crouch is if Daniher stays.
Daniher leaves, our window is a ways off. He stays, we might be able to compete. And adding Crouch might help as that inside extractor.

Or if Daniher leaves and the compensation is poor anyway.
But if we put a top 10 pick at risk for Crouch......