List Mgmt. Trade Targets / Rumours Part 2

[JimmyBeerCans]

Brodie Grundy will be dusted by the time we clean house & get anywhere near it again.. pointless

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

This comment is another example of how the negativity on this board is out of control,

How about ’for our next premiership we will rely on players who weren’t alive when we last won a premiership’?

Thats players in the 2022 draft and onwards

 

[philthy05]

He had interest. I dont know if he was wanting too much money, or what the issue was, but he did have interest from 2-3 clubs

C4 was in here months ago telling us that Sam Gray was trying to leverage offers elsewhere into a bigger deal at port.

It’s obvious as all hell port called his bluff

He didn’t accept a offer because he doesn’t really want to leave

I expect he’s gonna fold and take the original port offer unless he’s trying to leverage the psd for a few extra dollars.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

You need a few, yeah. You don't need all of Sam Gray, Mayes, Motlop, McKenzie, Lienert, Watts, Westhoff, Sutcliffe, every one of which is 25+ and isn't a lock in our 22.

And the eternal problem with Sam Gray while being coached by Ken Hinkley is that Ken never treats him as the 'depth player' he should be at the selection table, and the guys who actually are the future of this club have their development held back as a result.

What small forwards have had their development held back? Jake Neade? Aidyn Johnson? Young? Impey? Butters? Farrell? Nah, all these guys got games as small forwards when they deserved them. The issue is that we havent had someone better than Sam Gray in his role.

We've needed him, and its only now that it looks like we've got options to push him out using Butters, Rozee and Farrell as young crumbing small pressure forwards. There really hasnt been any mismanagement here at all, despite all the hate he's copped on this board, he's just been the best of a shit bunch of small forwards.

As for the other guys we're in a catch 22 there. The only way you replace that many guys is with lots of draft picks - which means splitting picks or trading players out. Given none of them have any value we'd have to split picks to replace them - which would in turn make those picks later in the draft. So then we'll miss out on getting top quality kids in the door. And right now we bloody well need some top quality youngsters because we've not had a truly elite player come through in many years now.

 

[robbo1981]

Haven't we traded him to Freo for a 4th rounder?

Don't think so

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Every player is offered contracts based on a list management strategy, and a good strategy means you control the players going out as well as coming in. Gray would have been given one year so we have the opportunity to cut him next year when we bring in another three players.

It’s the same reason why we gave McKenzie and Sutcliffe new deals. If Gray wants to have a sook, he can think about the fact that for years he's been able to earn good money playing AFL football. He got to live his dream, which is something not a lot of people can say.

On one hand Sam Gray has a right to be mad given he has been a regular in the team, and has at times been one of our better forwards despite sacrificing his game for the team (not saying doing otherwise would have necessarily helped him). He came from the rookie list and has probably not been paid well at all for a footballer. He probably could have left years ago to Hawthorn or something, who IIRC were into him.

On the other hand it sounds like he and his management played chicken with the club and lost so he has to wear some of the blame (unless his management acted on their own, which is possible).

I hope we don’t need him anymore, but he is definitely good enough to play AFL and if he wasn’t Port Adelaide through and through he would definitely have left years ago. Unfortunately loyalty to corporations is literally never rewarded, and that is what we seem to have become.

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

Sam Gray is part of all that’s shit with this club.


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[shewho]

Thats not a part of The Creed that Fos Williams wrote.

Ah, yes it is.

Any club worth its salt will clean out its no-hopers from the doorman, to the head trainer, to the captain.

Keeping no-hopers in these positions, or any other position, is the mark of the non-successful club.

You've got to weed out people who breed an atmosphere of non-professionalism.

They're there for the bloody joke, for the social life, for the prestige. They're not there to win!!

"To be successful, each of us must be active, aggressive and devoted to this cause. We agree
that success is well within our reach and have confidence that each member of both team and
management will suffer personal sacrifices for the common end." - Foster Neil Williams.

 

[edgie]

Sam Gray has played some stinkers but he's also had some very solid games. He isn't e future but he gets a harsh rep on here considering he is often played out of position. When he's earning his games he should keep getting a contract until he can't do that regularly, and I think he's earned more games than he hasn't earned at this point. If he falls off the earth next year... you know we don't have to select him for AFL.


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[Janus]

On one hand Sam Gray has a right to be mad given he has been a regular in the team, and has at times been one of our better forwards despite sacrificing his game for the team (not saying doing otherwise would have necessarily helped him). He came from the rookie list and has probably not been paid well at all for a footballer. He probably could have left years ago to Hawthorn or something, who IIRC were into him.

On the other hand it sounds like he and his management played chicken with the club and lost so he has to wear some of the blame (unless his management acted on their own, which is possible).

I hope we don’t need him anymore, but he is definitely good enough to play AFL and if he wasn’t Port Adelaide through and through he would definitely have left years ago. Unfortunately loyalty to corporations is literally never rewarded, and that is what we seem to have become.

Sam Gray, if he was on the minimum base contract every year, would have earned the following after tax:

2016 - $129,200
2017 - $143,000
2018 - $136,000
2019 - $133,250

Close to $550k for four years work. The agent takes 10%, so it's roughly $500k. For doing what? Running around and kicking a leather ball. And this is if he was on the minimum.

He's got no right to be mad. What he should be is thankful for the opportunity that he's been given, because without his connection to Port Adelaide he would have never been given the chance he has. He easily could have been playing in the SANFL all that time and no one would have considered him as anything but another Zane Kirkwood.

What I find fascinating is the fact that just like Polec last year (who played 90 games for us), Gray is pulling this shit about long term security right around the time when his next year will qualify his kids for F/S eligibility (he's played 96 games). Coincidence, or trying to squeeze the club for extra years/more base money?

I've said it elsewhere - this is the point in time where you see the people who are privately in it for themselves - who say all the right things but deep down resent the fact that they just don't have the talent or attributes that someone else has.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Ah, yes it is.

Just because Fos said it doesn't mean it part of The Creed.

The Creed is a promise made by the players. It should actually be read out by them as a vow on how they will play the game.

It is entirely "We" statements.

How does the below

Any club worth its salt will clean out its no-hopers from the doorman, to the head trainer, to the captain.

Keeping no-hopers in these positions, or any other position, is the mark of the non-successful club.

You've got to weed out people who breed an atmosphere of non-professionalism.

They're there for the bloody joke, for the social life, for the prestige. They're not there to win!!

"To be successful, each of us must be active, aggressive and devoted to this cause. We agree
that success is well within our reach and have confidence that each member of both team and
management will suffer personal sacrifices for the common end." - Foster Neil Williams.

Continue with that?

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

At least Doogal had the nuts to say fukc off I’m a defender. S. Gray however...


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[Tibbs]

What small forwards have had their development held back? Jake Neade? Aidyn Johnson? Young? Impey? Butters? Farrell? Nah, all these guys got games as small forwards when they deserved them. The issue is that we havent had someone better than Sam Gray in his role.

We've needed him, and its only now that it looks like we've got options to push him out using Butters, Rozee and Farrell as young crumbing small pressure forwards. There really hasnt been any mismanagement here at all, despite all the hate he's copped on this board, he's just been the best of a shit bunch of small forwards.

As for the other guys we're in a catch 22 there. The only way you replace that many guys is with lots of draft picks - which means splitting picks or trading players out. Given none of them have any value we'd have to split picks to replace them - which would in turn make those picks later in the draft. So then we'll miss out on getting top quality kids in the door. And right now we bloody well need some top quality youngsters because we've not had a truly elite player come through in many years now.

He has played his best games as a midfielder. I just dont rate him as a forward ... certainly not the way Hinkley plays him!

 

[Pear1870]

Ah, yes it is.

It comes from an statement that has (correctly or incorrectly) been attributed to Ron Barassi, but it is not part of the Creed.
A great statement all the same, that would apply to all clubs and I assume the no hoper reference would apply to both performance and attitude.
.

 

[RossFC]

Sam Gray has played some stinkers but he's also had some very solid games. He isn't e future but he gets a harsh rep on here considering he is often played out of position. When he's earning his games he should keep getting a contract until he can't do that regularly, and I think he's earned more games than he hasn't earned at this point. If he falls off the earth next year... you know we don't have to select him for AFL.


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To me he's similar to Aaron Young in terms of impact, if he gets dropped he could easily get 30 touches and 4 goals or something stupid, which is clearly way above SANFL standards. Pretty much a great depth option.

 

[Magus]

Are we really complaining about a guy trying to extract more than 150k a year out of his club at the end of his career?

Of course he is. Of course his manager is.

I'm not Sam Grays biggest fan, but really, he's bad for doing this?

Someone remind me, how much money is Ollie Wines on again?

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Are we really complaining about a guy trying to extract more than 150k a year out of his club at the end of his career?

Are we? Who is we?

 

[Magus]

Are we? Who is we?

Sorry. Just one.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

Sam Gray, if he was on the minimum base contract every year, would have earned the following after tax:

2016 - $129,200
2017 - $143,000
2018 - $136,000
2019 - $133,250

Close to $550k for four years work. The agent takes 10%, so it's roughly $500k. For doing what? Running around and kicking a leather ball. And this is if he was on the minimum.

He's got no right to be mad. What he should be is thankful for the opportunity that he's been given, because without his connection to Port Adelaide he would have never been given the chance he has. He easily could have been playing in the SANFL all that time and no one would have considered him as anything but another Zane Kirkwood.

What I find fascinating is the fact that just like Polec last year (who played 90 games for us), Gray is pulling this shit about long term security right around the time when his next year will qualify his kids for F/S eligibility (he's played 96 games). Coincidence, or trying to squeeze the club for extra years/more base money?

I've said it elsewhere - this is the point in time where you see the people who are privately in it for themselves - who say all the right things but deep down resent the fact that they just don't have the talent or attributes that someone else has.

I think Sam Gray resents the fact we haven’t played finals most years and haven’t been anywhere near contention.

Sam would be getting paid less than just about anyone on the senior list, while contributing more to the side tham half of them. He would have every right to be unsatisfied with that.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Sam would be getting paid less than just about anyone on the senior list, while contributing more to the side tham half of them.

lol no way, thats draftees

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

lol no way, thats draftees

Could be right. I have no idea to be honest, I just get the feeling that once draftees sign extensions they get more coin.

Not really sure though! Probably shouldn’t have phrased it like that. My vibe is just that he stayed here for less money, and probably regrets it now that the club is only offering him one year on low pay given we haven’t been anywhere near success in his time.

I like him because he’s Port Adelaide born and bred. I can imagine he feels the same way we do about the club being ruined. Perhaps he doesn’t though, I guess it’s impossible to know without knowing him.

 

[edgie]

To me he's similar to Aaron Young in terms of impact, if he gets dropped he could easily get 30 touches and 4 goals or something stupid, which is clearly way above SANFL standards. Pretty much a great depth option.

I think we should all agree he isn't a forward and is a better midfield player but isn't the size for it at AFL level and should be used off the bench or as a rotation player.


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[Janus]

Are we really complaining about a guy trying to extract more than 150k a year out of his club at the end of his career?

Of course he is. Of course his manager is.

I'm not Sam Grays biggest fan, but really, he's bad for doing this?

Someone remind me, how much money is Ollie Wines on again?

More than $150k a year after tax, from a club that has a fixed salary cap. You think taking home $2k a week isn't enough for him, and he deserves a pay rise? He's a bit player and shouldn't be anywhere near the best 22. Wines is getting paid $450k a year after tax and agent commissions if he's on $850k a year - which is three times the amount of money Gray gets. $300k of Wines' money goes to tax, but he can divert 30% of his income into a company where he can pay only 30% company tax, so it's probably somewhere around $200k. So let's be generous and say he's taking home $550k a year.

Is Wines three to four times the player Sam Gray is? Is his value to the team three to four times higher? I think it is. Wines is getting paid relative to his worth.

Sick of people complaining about this sort of shit, to be honest. It's not the club's fault that Gray is too short to hold down a midfield position. It's not the club's fault that no club's came for him in terms of a trade. Should we lose guys like Ladhams, Marshall, Amon etc because Sam Gray wants a pay rise? No way.

This is what I mean by thinking of something more than yourself and understanding what your role in the team is. Just because you were good enough to be best 22 in years where players like Aaron Young and Brendon Ah Chee were on the list, doesn't mean you're going to be paid like that when we've got Connor Rozee and Xavier Duursma on the list.

Contracts are relative based on the value of the players around you and how much of the pie they need compared to you. That's how the world works in a salary cap league.

 

[TalkingFootyNow1223]

I think we should all agree he isn't a forward and is a better midfield player but isn't the size for it at AFL level and should be used off the bench or as a rotation player.


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I feel Sammy should of played more of a running half back but we have that spot covered by DBJ and Burton. So realistically if hes no forward and is too short to be an inside mid no room on the outside as we have Amon and Duursma who are better than Sammy and no room for an extra running half back... what is he even doing on the list? Dont get me wrong i love Sammy his work effort is next to none but lets be honest hes not an elite or a role player, So why is he on our list? time to move on from gap filling out of date players. Time for a genuine rebuild its what we need for our new coach in 2021

 

[Hardcore]

I feel Sammy should of played more of a running half back but we have that spot covered by DBJ and Burton. So realistically if hes no forward and is too short to be an inside mid no room on the outside as we have Amon and Duursma who are better than Sammy and no room for an extra running half back... what is he even doing on the list? Dont get me wrong i love Sammy his work effort is next to none but lets be honest hes not an elite or a role player, So why is he on our list? time to move on from gap filling out of date players. Time for a genuine rebuild its what we need for our new coach in 2021

This quote sums up this board everyone is entitled to an opinion!!!

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