List Mgmt. Trade Targets / Rumours Part 2

[Pablo Escobar]

Make Sammy captain of the Magpies, stick him in the guts and let him win the Margarey

 

[Andre]

I feel Sammy should of played more of a running half back but we have that spot covered by DBJ and Burton. So realistically if hes no forward and is too short to be an inside mid no room on the outside as we have Amon and Duursma who are better than Sammy and no room for an extra running half back... what is he even doing on the list? Dont get me wrong i love Sammy his work effort is next to none but lets be honest hes not an elite or a role player, So why is he on our list? time to move on from gap filling out of date players. Time for a genuine rebuild its what we need for our new coach in 2021

He should have been a depth player from 2014 onwards and given only a depth player moved on a couple of years ago. Poor list management, selections and in game management. Our Port trifecta of recent years wrapped up in one player. Hence why he gets so much grief.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Make Sammy captain of the Magpies, stick him in the guts and let him win the Margarey

Better idea delist him

 

[Schulzenfest]

To an extent I can understand why Sam would be frustrated. He's been a fixture of the side playing 20+ games a year for the past three years. Why would we play somebody that often, indicating that we think he's an integral part of the side, but then refuse to offer him a multi year contract?

The problem is that the club has made a mistake, but the mistake the club made wasn't lowballing him on his contract offer, the mistake the club made was playing him that often in the first place. Ken Hinkley's selection policies have inflated his perception of his market value. But unfortunately for him there isn't a single list manager in the entire league, not even our own list manager, who rates him as highly as Ken Hinkley does.

 

[Port85]

Outside of the kick to the pockets gameplan, S.Gray is one of the main culprits as to why our conversion is so poor.

We won't miss him in games he doesn't play.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

To an extent I can understand why Sam would be frustrated. He's been a fixture of the side playing 20+ games a year for the past three years. Why would we play somebody that often, indicating that we think he's an integral part of the side, but then refuse to offer him a multi year contract?

I know this was rhetorical but Nathan Krakouer gave us a damaging example of ’played a bunch but shouldnt have got that last extension’

 

[Far Kern]

Particularly as we seem to be hitting the draft and so have to play said kids, I could deal with a year for Sam or just thanks, take your two in the PSD.

I do think that Sam suffers a bit in the perception of supporters for playing a role. Kicking is an issue, but he’s screwed because he spends the whole game running from end to end, like Trav was. A kid in his spot though, yeah, sure.

 

[VineValerian]

This quote sums up this board everyone is entitled to an opinion!!!

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A fair and objective analysis of a player I really admire for his commitment and endeavour - more than many on our list.

No personal, vitriolic attacks and needless chracter assasinations.

Just praise for what he actually does bring to the table, realisation that he has gone from a top 10 player in 2018 to a fringe player with no defined role for his skillset and body size now available, and the knock that he is now merely a depth player, and should be moved on in the interests of the future of the club.

Good summation TFN.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

Sam is just indicative of where the game has got to thanks to all the AFLs rule changes. Fitness and work ethic are now more important than skills. Sam was played because he had the fitness and work ethic that others on our list lacked. For that reason it wasnt the wrong decision to play him.

The problem has been and always was that we had nobody better. No depth in that position and nobody else with his fitness and work ethic we could move into the role that would improve the team.

Sam is still worth having on the list though as depth though if he'll take a one year deal.

 

[VineValerian]

Make Sammy captain of the Magpies, stick him in the guts and let him win the Margarey

Yes happy to delist and be the Pies' #1 and 2020 MM.

 

[Magus]

More than $150k a year after tax, from a club that has a fixed salary cap. You think taking home $2k a week isn't enough for him, and he deserves a pay rise? He's a bit player and shouldn't be anywhere near the best 22. Wines is getting paid $450k a year after tax and agent commissions if he's on $850k a year - which is three times the amount of money Gray gets. $300k of Wines' money goes to tax, but he can divert 30% of his income into a company where he can pay only 30% company tax, so it's probably somewhere around $200k. So let's be generous and say he's taking home $550k a year.

Is Wines three to four times the player Sam Gray is? Is his value to the team three to four times higher? I think it is. Wines is getting paid relative to his worth.

Sick of people complaining about this sort of shit, to be honest. It's not the club's fault that Gray is too short to hold down a midfield position. It's not the club's fault that no club's came for him in terms of a trade. Should we lose guys like Ladhams, Marshall, Amon etc because Sam Gray wants a pay rise? No way.

This is what I mean by thinking of something more than yourself and understanding what your role in the team is. Just because you were good enough to be best 22 in years where players like Aaron Young and Brendon Ah Chee were on the list, doesn't mean you're going to be paid like that when we've got Connor Rozee and Xavier Duursma on the list.

Contracts are relative based on the value of the players around you and how much of the pie they need compared to you. That's how the world works in a salary cap league.

It doesn't matter if you or I think he is or isn't best 22 - the coach values him enough to play him every week. All these other factors you're throwing up about who else he is playing with is irrelevant. He's a first 22 player (based on games played) on minimal coin.

Why would someone approaching the and of their footballing life not want to get paid when they put in every week? It doesn't make him selfish or in need of being extra thankful for just having a job. You do the work, you get paid.

 

[DaTBird187]

To an extent I can understand why Sam would be frustrated. He's been a fixture of the side playing 20+ games a year for the past three years. Why would we play somebody that often, indicating that we think he's an integral part of the side, but then refuse to offer him a multi year contract?

The problem is that the club has made a mistake, but the mistake the club made wasn't lowballing him on his contract offer, the mistake the club made was playing him that often in the first place. Ken Hinkley's selection policies have inflated his perception of his market value. But unfortunately for him there isn't a single list manager in the entire league, not even our own list manager, who rates him as highly as Ken Hinkley does.

Yeah I think that last bit is the key. Perhaps Ken has finally been gagged on this one.

 

[Us against the rest]

Sam Gray, if he was on the minimum base contract every year, would have earned the following after tax:

2016 - $129,200
2017 - $143,000
2018 - $136,000
2019 - $133,250

Close to $550k for four years work. The agent takes 10%, so it's roughly $500k. For doing what? Running around and kicking a leather ball. And this is if he was on the minimum.

He's got no right to be mad. What he should be is thankful for the opportunity that he's been given, because without his connection to Port Adelaide he would have never been given the chance he has. He easily could have been playing in the SANFL all that time and no one would have considered him as anything but another Zane Kirkwood.

What I find fascinating is the fact that just like Polec last year (who played 90 games for us), Gray is pulling this shit about long term security right around the time when his next year will qualify his kids for F/S eligibility (he's played 96 games). Coincidence, or trying to squeeze the club for extra years/more base money?

I've said it elsewhere - this is the point in time where you see the people who are privately in it for themselves - who say all the right things but deep down resent the fact that they just don't have the talent or attributes that someone else has.

Good post.

 

[Janus]

It doesn't matter if you or I think he is or isn't best 22 - the coach values him enough to play him every week. All these other factors you're throwing up about who else he is playing with is irrelevant. He's a first 22 player (based on games played) on minimal coin.

Why would someone approaching the and of their footballing life not want to get paid when they put in every week? It doesn't make him selfish or in need of being extra thankful for just having a job. You do the work, you get paid.

Every player that makes the 22 for any given week gets paid an extra $5k on top of their base salary (except for draftees and rookies that get paid $4k). This cannot change. That’s what you get for doing the work. If you play every game, that’s $110k...so when you hear that at a player is on $600k a year, they are really on $490k + match payments.

It’s the base payment that gets adjusted up and down. So what you’re asking is, why shouldn’t Sam Gray get paid the same base as he has been getting when we have more talented players than him that will be expecting money as well?

I can guarantee you he’s not on minimum payments either. And he won’t be best 22 next year, which is the whole point.

 

[Andre]

The problem is that the club has made a mistake, but the mistake the club made wasn't lowballing him on his contract offer, the mistake the club made was playing him that often in the first place. Ken Hinkley's selection policies have inflated his perception of his market value. But unfortunately for him there isn't a single list manager in the entire league, not even our own list manager, who rates him as highly as Ken Hinkley does.

Whilst I agree with all of this, his manager must be an idiot. You don't go tell a client to play hard ball with your existing club without something from other clubs that's a fairly firm 'We'd give him a contract for 2 years if he was available'. Now maybe there is at least one club out there who said that, but did the 'on minimum pay if he's available as a DFA' too quietly for his manager to catch that bit, but at the moment he's another that on the face of it has botched it.

 

[edgie]

I feel Sammy should of played more of a running half back but we have that spot covered by DBJ and Burton. So realistically if hes no forward and is too short to be an inside mid no room on the outside as we have Amon and Duursma who are better than Sammy and no room for an extra running half back... what is he even doing on the list? Dont get me wrong i love Sammy his work effort is next to none but lets be honest hes not an elite or a role player, So why is he on our list? time to move on from gap filling out of date players. Time for a genuine rebuild its what we need for our new coach in 2021

He's on the list because he can still compete for best 22 without costing much salary space.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

To an extent I can understand why Sam would be frustrated. He's been a fixture of the side playing 20+ games a year for the past three years. Why would we play somebody that often, indicating that we think he's an integral part of the side, but then refuse to offer him a multi year contract?

The problem is that the club has made a mistake, but the mistake the club made wasn't lowballing him on his contract offer, the mistake the club made was playing him that often in the first place. Ken Hinkley's selection policies have inflated his perception of his market value. But unfortunately for him there isn't a single list manager in the entire league, not even our own list manager, who rates him as highly as Ken Hinkley does.

The thing is he pretty much earned his spot in the side, in large part due to our garbage forward line perhaps.

He should have gone to some shit club and played midfield 3 years ago.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

Whilst I agree with all of this, his manager must be an idiot.

He certainly has no respect for Port’s contract management, which is understandable

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

I know this was rhetorical but Nathan Krakouer gave us a damaging example of ’played a bunch but shouldnt have got that last extension’

He had off-field stuff happen that wasn’t hugely within his control though right? After we re-signed him IIRC.

Man he was actually great in the backlines though, what a leg he had. I’d forgotten all about him

 

[Schulzenfest]

The thing is he pretty much earned his spot in the side, in large part due to our garbage forward line perhaps.

He should have gone to some shit club and played midfield 3 years ago.

There isn't a club in the league where Sam Gray would be a starting midfielder. Unless by 'shit club' you mean a state league side.

 

[Sleezy]

I'm in the let Sam go camp, for two reasons.

1) Remove the temptation for Hinkles to play him ahead of Farrell/Cox/Woodcock. Not Sam's fault, but that's the world we live in.

2) Gives us the flexibility to pick up a tall DFA such as Buzza or Allen, and still scheme our way into 3 picks before Mead is bid on.

If Sam signs on we only have 4 open list spots. I want 4 draft picks (with Mead the 4th) and a tall DFA or 5 picks more than I want Sam Gray.

Soz Sam.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

Zach Sproule was de-listed by gws. I was a bit of a fan of Zach in his draft year. His problem is that he is a bit of a poor man's hoff. ken would love him.

 

[Fade to Gray]

Pretty confident Sam did have an offer on the table from St Kilda (heard from a good source). I guess they didn't expect to have so many players nominate them and the deal fell through.

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[Marmozet]

The only positive of keeping Sam Gray I can think of is that he's one of Lycett's best mates so keeping him might make things more bearable for Lycett who's probably regretting leaving such a professional and successful club for this rabble, even if he is on big coin.

 

[Kiss from a Rozee]

There isn't a club in the league where Sam Gray would be a starting midfielder. Unless by 'shit club' you mean a state league side.

But consider this counter argument:

Ken Bad