Transgender

[ShanDog]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[RobbieK]

There are more average men who are bigger and better athletes than their are women of the same size. Then there are the male athletes

How many trans women who are bigger and better athletes than than there are women of the same size are there?

 

[evo]

world

 

[Taylor]

How many trans women who are bigger and better athletes than than there are women of the same size are there?

Well Erin Hoare was the tallest AFLW player at 194cm.

So far the application to play from Hannah is the only one I know about. Standing at 188cm.

I am 173cm and I'd be a key position tall.

 

[RobbieK]

Well Erin Hoare was the tallest AFLW player at 194cm.

So far the application to play from Hannah is the only one I know about. Standing at 188cm.

I am 173cm and I'd be a key position tall.

So... 1?

 

[Taylor]

So... 1?

Every one so far.

The average man would be an elite female athlete

 

[RobbieK]

Every one so far.

The average man would be an elite female athlete

The average man would not be equal to an elite female athlete without a very significant amount of work.

 

[woota]

The average man would not be equal to an elite female athlete without a very significant amount of work.

That depends entirely on what sport we're talking about. Also, "average man" is far too vague.

 

[Taylor]

I think the man sitting at the 50% point of men would be equal to about the 95% to 100% of women of the same age, after the age of twelve.

 

[Taylor]

I run 2km in 7:25 at the moment. Teenage boys run it in under 6 minutes.

 

[woota]

I think the man sitting at the 50% point of men would be equal to about the 95% to 100% of women of the same age, after the age of twelve.

Again, statements like this make no sense unless you designate a specific sport to compare. An "average man" who puts in "a significant mount of work" to compete against female olympic gymnasts is obviously going to be nowhere in sight. On the other hand, an average man who puts in the same amount of work to compete against elite females in greco-roman wrestling or boxing, would probably beat the female competition (of the same weight class) quite easily.

 

[woota]

I run 2km in 7:25 at the moment. Teenage boys run it in under 6 minutes.

Another senseless comparison. Teenage boys also run 2 km much faster than men who are your age (no offence, you're a smart chick but you're a little off with this one)

 

[Taylor]

How do the girls go on the rings in gymnastics?

 

[RobbieK]

I run 2km in 7:25 at the moment. Teenage boys run it in under 6 minutes.

The best teenage boys, maybe. Not an average teenage boy. And are you in the top 5% of female performers at 2km?

 

[woota]

How do the girls go on the rings in gymnastics?

Fair point, but that's only one discipline out of many.

 

[Taylor]

Fair point, but that's only one discipline out of many.

It's an example of segregating due to physiological differences.

 

[woota]

It's an example of segregating due to physiological differences.

I'm not disagreeing with the overall point you're making. I'm just saying that it doesn't really make sense to make overarching statements like this:

I think the man sitting at the 50% point of men would be equal to about the 95% to 100% of women of the same age, after the age of twelve.

as it's far too general. You can make comparisons like that in the context of specific sports, but it would vary so markedly from sport to sport that you can't apply it as a generic rule. For example, in sports that emphasize strength and explosive power, our "average man" is obviously going to fare far better against elite female competition, than he is against elite females in sports that emphasize endurance such as long distance running or long distance cycling.

 

[Taylor]

I'm not disagreeing with the overall point you're making. I'm just saying that it doesn't really make sense to make overarching statements like this:



as it's far too general. You can make comparisons like that in the context of specific sports, but it would vary so markedly from sport to sport that you can't apply it as a generic rule. For example, in sports that emphasize strength and explosive power, our "average man" is obviously going to fare far better against elite female competition, than he against elite females in sports that emphasize endurance such as long distance running or long distance cycling.

Long distance running speed/time highly correlates to the ratio of power delivered into the floor to weight.

To the point where you can improve your time by concentric deadlifts.

Power over time is still power. Men have the advantage and the average man is more powerful than the female extreme

 

[woota]

Long distance running speed/time highly correlates to the ratio of power delivered into the floor to weight.

To the point where you can improve your time by concentric deadlifts.

Power over time is still power. Men have the advantage and the average man is more powerful than the female extreme

I don't think an "average man" would come anywhere close to beating elite female competitors at long distance running.

I think he may have a shot at beating elite female competitors at boxing or greco-roman wrestling.

Do you see my point now?

 

[RobbieK]

Long distance running speed/time highly correlates to the ratio of power delivered into the floor to weight.

To the point where you can improve your time by concentric deadlifts.

Power over time is still power. Men have the advantage and the average man is more powerful than the female extreme

If you want to talk long distance running...

5% of female runners finish a marathon in under 3.5 hours. The very best are doing it under 2.5 hours.

How many men finish a marathon in that time? 18%.

I looked at the average for men in the 30-39 age group, the peak age for distance running. It is 4 hours and 8 minutes.

I think it is clear on this one the average man is a long way behind the elite women.

 

[Taylor]

I don't think an "average man" would come anywhere close to beating elite female competitors at long distance running.

I think he may have a shot at beating elite female competitors at boxing or greco-roman wrestling.

Do you see my point now?

I do.

Now that average man identifies as a woman and trains with his/her elite woman friend.

He will destroy her

 

[ShanDog]

I don't think an "average man" would come anywhere close to beating elite female competitors at long distance running.

I think he may have a shot at beating elite female competitors at boxing or greco-roman wrestling.

Do you see my point now?

Of course, but this is irrelevant when it comes to talking about athletes training and competing. The average differences across the sexes means that any random sample of men and women you pluck will favour the man beating the woman in tests of athleticism. Even more so when you get to the trails of the distribution where it seems the advantage men have become exponentially bigger. Given most athletes will come from that end of the spectrum, you can see where the problem arises when transgender women who formerly competed as make athletes swap to female-only competition.

 

[Mike Smyth]

This is one of those issues that men should actually stay out of. If women think it's okay to compete against transgender women then so be it. If women are happy for their daughters to share a toilet space and change rooms with a woman with a penis then so be it.

The crazy places the Left takes us. Degenerates.

 

[quotemokc]

This is one of those issues that men should actually stay out of. If women think it's okay to compete against transgender women then so be it. If women are happy for their daughters to share a toilet space and change rooms with a woman with a penis then so be it.

The crazy places the Left takes us. Degenerates.

What about fathers that have to deal with their teenage daughters playing against teenage boys?

 

[Work Hardery]

What about fathers that have to deal with their teenage daughters playing against teenage boys?

They'll have to explain to their daughters that other women, feminist men and other weak minded leftists have let them down in the name of progress.

 

[Carringbush2010]

We can sit back in the meantime and celebrate the victory of inclusiveness over common sense.

This, this is the whole argument.

Like I've said many times on this thread and others, the sentiment is noble but the practice is not practical and the theory will as you rightly point out eventually be in conflict with itself and logic will once again reign.