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Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.
 
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quotemokc said:
What about fathers that have to deal with their teenage daughters playing against teenage boys?
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Nope. This is one argument men need to stay out of. As soon as we enter the debate the pro-lunatics have an easy out - hom-aphobe, trans-aphobe, all of the above-aphobe. Feminists groups in the UK are pushing back on this madness which is a nice change given they remained mute while thousands of little English girls were systematically groomed and r*ped by men largely of Pakistani origin. Let's see if they can finally find some credibility and courage.

Sit back and enjoy the show.
 
What I wanna know is where are all the former women, who've transitioned to being men (transman), who want to compete against biologically born men? You have so many biologically born males who now identify as women itching to compete against individuals who were actually born as females but not a pip from those going the other way?

What happens to these transmen? Do they still remain in female competitions even though they identify as men?
 
randyzany said:
What I wanna know is where are all the former women, who've transition to being men (transman), who want to compete against biologically born men? You have so many biologically born males who now identify as women itching to compete against individuals who were actually born as females but not a pip from those going the other way?

What happens to these transmen? Do they still remain in female competitions even though they identify as men?
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You don't hear about female to male trans competing in male sport because they were never actual men to begin with, so the performance gap (against biological men) would be so great that they would never make it to the elite levels of competition. Basically, F to M trans do not have an athletic advantage over their competition (hence we don't see them stealing olympic gold medals from biological male athletes). It's only an issue with M to F trans because they have an obvious advantage over their competition, hence stealing olympic gold medals from biological females. F to M trans are a simply a non-factor at elite levels of competition.
 
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woota said:
You don't hear about female to male trans competing in male sport because they were never actual men to begin with, so the performance gap (against biological men) would be so great that they would never make it to the elite levels of competition. Basically, F to M trans do not have an athletic advantage over their competition (hence we don't see them stealing olympic gold medals from biological male athletes). It's only an issue with M to F trans because they have an obvious advantage over their competition, hence stealing olympic gold medals from biological females. F to M trans are a simply a non-factor at elite levels of competition.
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Calling a spade a spade, sport is a one way street? Gold gleams only one way?
 
Carringbush2010 said:
Also if you're for inclusion as you say then why are you advocating for athletes that may have an unfair advantage? Why are you not including women?
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As I said to others, the proof is in the pudding. If there is proof of an undiminishing advantage over several years I will definitely shift my opinion to 'male-to-female trans athletes should not be allowed to compete with the gender they identify as on the grounds that this means an unfair playing field'.

I'm for equality and social progress but not at the expense of fairness.
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
As I said to others, the proof is in the pudding. If there is proof of an undiminishing advantage over several years I will definitely shift my opinion to 'male-to-female trans athletes should not be allowed to compete with the gender they identify as on the grounds that this means an unfair playing field'.

I'm for equality and social progress but not at the expense of fairness.
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What has "several years" got to do with it? The proof is already on the table. Trans males and females should be banned from male & female sports.

They aren't men..........or women.
 
Snake_Baker said:
What has "several years" got to do with it? The proof is already on the table. Trans males and females should be banned from male & female sports.

They aren't men..........or women.
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They are whichever gender they feel themselves to be. The 'several years' is necessary because there might be a period of several years before HRT reduces that advantage to a negligable amount, if it does anything at all. If there is a lasting advantage over several years it would be fair to ban trans athletes from competing. If not, we consider that when it happens.
 

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Geelong_Sicko said:
As long as the criminal history shows what gender the perp was when the crime was committed (especially important in sex crimes) I don't see a problem here as long as justice is being done.

HOUSING that rapist in a female prison, that's another matter. For criminals convicted of sex crimes I'm against it.
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Hang on.

If a trans woman loses all their male functions and should be recognised right across the board as a woman (including sport), then surely this perp can't answer for the crimes of a man?

Where is your consistency?

Geelong_Sicko said:
If you have you'd no doubt help convince me to switch over to your point of view yeah? I'd definitely get you the details if I had them and I was trying to convince you.
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Facts are facts whether you're "convinced" about them or not.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Hang on.

If a trans woman loses all their male functions and should be recognised right across the board as a woman (including sport), then surely this perp can't answer for the crimes of a man?

Where is your consistency?



Facts are facts whether you're "convinced" about them or not.
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It's a CRIME, mate. The switch in genders does not change the PERSON answerable for the crime.
 
Geelong_Sicko said:
The 'several years' is necessary because there might be a period of several years before HRT reduces that advantage to a negligable amount............
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Nope.

Skeletal bone density is acquired in (male) puberty and remains throughout (trans woman) life.
 
Snake_Baker said:
Skeletal bone density is acquired in (male) puberty and remains throughout (trans woman) life.
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See what you make of this

Transgender women on HT have lower bone density, more fat mass than men

Bone density was lower than reference men and similar to reference women.
www.mdedge.com www.mdedge.com

CHICAGO – Low bone mineral density was common in a group of transgender women receiving hormone therapy, according to findings from a recent Brazilian study.

“Lumbar spine density was lower than in reference men but similar to that of reference women,” said Tayane Muniz Fighera, MD, speaking at the annual meeting of the Endocrine Society.

Lower lumbar spine density in transgender women was associated with lower appendicular lean mass and higher total fat mass, with correlation coefficients of 0.327 and 0.334, respectively (P = .0001 for both)...
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