Travis Varcoe

[Cattery]

Yes I agree with the last paragraph. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism and some have made obviously valid points which you cant argue with when someone is below their best but ongoing rants and stuff that is subversively malicious have ruined this thread completely.

Always get a few who go "over the top" on any subject, just have to put up with it I guess.

What really p****s me off is the fact that the bloke has real talent and could be a genuine top-liner "if" he applied himself, coming more and more to the conclusion though that he just doesn't have the appetite for a contest, and it's reached the point now where he's a liability to the side.

 

[thejester]

At least one journo wrote in today's paper that Varcoe pulled out of the contest. One thing for fans to call blokes soft, quite another for someone in the media to do it.

About the only silver lining is that he clearly had an impact after 3/4 time. But hard to justify keeping him with Menzel, Byrnes, Duncan and even Cowan pushing for selection.

 

[vinum coupe]

Genuine question VC, why can't he be dropped?

Because we just look too flat footed right now.
He is not getting it enough. I know. His tackles are half hearted. I know. But is almost too late to drop him now. Almost.
But that run he provides is no where to be seen in most of the team.
We need as many runners as we can get.

Tend to agree with this, but what's the point of running hard to get to a contest then just spectating?

Agree.
I was just pointing out the poor comment earlier that he isn't gut running. Which was nonsense.

Varcoe might actually be best served playing deep forward and making the 'occasional' run up to CHB and back.

He'd do some huge damage to any of his opponents.

 

[Cattery]

Because we just look too flat footed right now.
He is not getting it enough. I know. His tackles are half hearted. I know. But is almost too late to drop him now. Almost.
But that run he provides is no where to be seen in most of the team.
We need as many runners as we can get.

See where you're coming from, rather sacrifice some leg speed for someone willing to have a go myself, as I already pointed out, at the moment he's a liability IMO.

Agree.
I was just pointing out the poor comment earlier that he isn't gut running. Which was nonsense.

Fair enough.

Varcoe might actually be best served playing deep forward and making the 'occasional' run up to CHB and back.

Turn back the clock to 07 and play him as a defensive forward, been thinking the same thing myself, not a bad idea "if" the MC want to keep him in the side which they apparently do, though personally I think it's way past time for him to go back to the VFL and prove he wants to compete at the highest level.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

I don't ever recall saying Bartel was my favourite, is he yours?

Back to the original point then, why do we ie you and others excuse Bartel for pulling out? You gave the "reason" he is a match winner. Varcoe helped us out of two matches this year, are you going to answer or avoid?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Because we just look too flat footed right now.
He is not getting it enough. I know. His tackles are half hearted. I know. But is almost too late to drop him now. Almost.
But that run he provides is no where to be seen in most of the team.
We need as many runners as we can get.



Agree.
I was just pointing out the poor comment earlier that he isn't gut running. Which was nonsense.

Varcoe might actually be best served playing deep forward and making the 'occasional' run up to CHB and back.

He'd do some huge damage to any of his opponents.

The last quarter he looked a different player in a different but what I imagine is a far more familiar role to him up forward. Couldnt hurt trying.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Always get a few who go "over the top" on any subject, just have to put up with it I guess.

What really p****s me off is the fact that the bloke has real talent and could be a genuine top-liner "if" he applied himself, coming more and more to the conclusion though that he just doesn't have the appetite for a contest, and it's reached the point now where he's a liability to the side.

No denying his appetite for the contest has waned but the conclusion you reach he is a liability with his run and carry has never really occured to me. Still there were some handy kids out of that side Sunday.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

lol Bartel pulling out of a contest..I'd like to see that'

the guy is one of the games most courageous players, he knows no other way imo. What a match winner

 

[Scottland2007]

Back to the original point then, why do we ie you and others excuse Bartel for pulling out? You gave the "reason" he is a match winner. Varcoe helped us out of two matches this year, are you going to answer or avoid?

Don't recall Bartel pulling out. But maybe I missed it. Maybe you could enlighten me?

 

[PatrickBateman]

Back to the original point then, why do we ie you and others excuse Bartel for pulling out? You gave the "reason" he is a match winner. Varcoe helped us out of two matches this year, are you going to answer or avoid?

It just won't register with you will it?

Bartel is known for being one of the hardest guys in the AFL, who ferociously attacks the ball constantly, Varcoe is the opposite. Just because the Varcoe and Bartel 'pulling out' issues were captured closely on TV, doesn't mean you can judge both on these events. Varcoe circles stoppages and Bartel tunnels into them.

To answer your question? I've seen Bartel put his body on the line over and over again for the club, that's why I'd excuse him. PLUS his incident carried a much higher risk factor(similar to J.Brown), where Varcoe simply pulled out of a contest that involved to players head to head, with the ball on the ground in front. Pathetic.

No one will say Varcoe hasn't helped us win games... Who has actually said that? He's part of the team, of course his efforts help to an extent. But to compare his worth to Bartel, mate, you're only making yourself look a fool.

 

[you pick one]

See where you're coming from, rather sacrifice some leg speed for someone willing to have a go myself, as I already pointed out, at the moment he's a liability IMO.



Fair enough.



Turn back the clock to 07 and play him as a defensive forward, been thinking the same thing myself, not a bad idea "if" the MC want to keep him in the side which they apparently do, though personally I think it's way past time for him to go back to the VFL and prove he wants to compete at the highest level.[/quote]

The game has changed since 07.

Agree entirely with the second point,(for his own good) we are quickly getting to the same situation we were in with Mackie last year.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Don't recall Bartel pulling out. But maybe I missed it. Maybe you could enlighten me?

2 mins to go, he goes for a mark and thinks better of it. Personally I am not having a go at him mate, just interested who's wearing the blinkers.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

lol Bartel pulling out of a contest..I'd like to see that'

the guy is one of the games most courageous players, he knows no other way imo. What a match winner

Of course Bobby, and he still is, I'm not having a go at him at all, but if posters in here want to apply terminology to one of our players then the cap fits elsewhere when you see the same thing happen?

My whole point in this thread has been bias mate.

 

[Scottland2007]

2 mins to go, he goes for a mark and thinks better of it. Personally I am not having a go at him mate, just interested who's wearing the blinkers.

I didn't see the incident, I was watching my 2 year old while trying to watch the footy.

If I had been knocked out as many times as Jimmy, I would probably pull out of situations that could knock me out aswell, (especially after his knockout earlier this year), he's copped a few for his team.

 

[goyoucatters]

Because we just look too flat footed right now.
He is not getting it enough. I know. His tackles are half hearted. I know. But is almost too late to drop him now. Almost.
But that run he provides is no where to be seen in most of the team.
We need as many runners as we can get.



Agree.
I was just pointing out the poor comment earlier that he isn't gut running. Which was nonsense.

Varcoe might actually be best served playing deep forward and making the 'occasional' run up to CHB and back.

He'd do some huge damage to any of his opponents.

With six games to go before the finals, it doesn't appear to me to be almost too late for Trav to have a spell in the twos.

He could have a couple of games there, and still get back for four games in the seniors before the finals.

He is in our best 22 when he's up and going; yesterday's effort must be addressed, and I can see no reason why continuing to offer him a game in the ones is the best means to confront this key concern about his overall game. His place was under question before the Crows game. He played that one, went really well for most of it, but has since reverted to his general recent malaise. On that evidence, it doesn't appear that continually playing him in the seniors is doing that much for sharpening his overall hunger for the contest.

As for playing him as a defensive forward, I like the idea (in theory). In practice (going on his 2011 exposed form), I wonder how many tackles he would make (and stick) in the forward 50. Shan is probably more likely to have an impact in this role at the moment.

Regarding Bartel, he did surprise me when he didn't go on and take that mark late on. He surprised me because I've seen him courageously take on the possibility of contact with no concern for his personal safety many, many times.

I wonder whether his spate of recent concussions is not playing on his mind to a degree. I also wonder whether he didn't do a reasonable job of summing up the situation of the game (definitely in the bag, just playing out junk time), and adjust his intent as a result. No point risking yet another heavy knock when there was so little to be gained.

By contrast, Varcoe's lack of willingness to go did not really surprise me at all. It certainly infuriated me (I only got more vocal at the game when Pods kicked his seventh and eighth goals), but I can't say it shocked me to see him flinch at the vital moment.

And, for me (by contrast to the Bartel incident), it was a very vital moment in the overall contest. JB had just gone down, the Lions were still up and about in the match (and back in front on the scoreboard), and it was a pivotal time to see which players out there really wanted to win the footy.

Viewing the two events contextually, I can't see that Jimmy's effort goes any way to excusing Trav's. To me, they are not telling us anything like the same thing about both players at this point in their careers.

I want Trav to get back and make a huge difference for us in the big games to come, but I'm definitely of the opinion that he can only be helped by having a statement made at the selection table this week.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Of course Bobby, and he still is, I'm not having a go at him at all, but if posters in here want to apply terminology to one of our players then the cap fits elsewhere when you see the same thing happen?

My whole point in this thread has been bias mate.

Hence the reason for this thread going on and on and on. You've got to the stage where you've given up making excuses for Varcoe's game stand alone, you're trying to compare single incidents to other players then questioning why they aren't addressed in a thread called TRAVIS VARCOE. In this case you've chosen one of the most courageous blokes in the AFL to compare him to, which is completely stupid and flawed.

Varcoe is soft... plain and simple. Not just regarding that one incident, but in general. A notion that you are choosing to dismiss as it hurts your argument here. The only thing that will change peoples minds on that is if Varcoe changes his ways and proves otherwise on the ground. Bartel has no case to answer with regards to courage... if you question this you don't know shit about your Club or its players.

 

[Partridge]

Varcoe has been a match winner this year, round 5 Hawks and round 9 Blues. Does that excuse him now too? Or we only make excuses for our favourite players?

He wasn't a matchwinner, a bit of perspective I think.

Round 5 against Hawthorn, 2 goals in the 6 goal blitz we put on in the third quarter. Both good goals, the last absolutely brilliant, but he wasn't best on ground or anything. If anything it was Menzel and Duncan in the last quarter making very important contributions that allowed us to win that.

Round 9 against Carlton, 3 terrific goals to get us going in the third quarter. Again, superb little cameo, but he was unsighted before it and drifted out again in the last.

This is what is so infuriating. He's shown this year he can perform when games are tight, but seems unwilling to do the work required over four quarters. Let alone week in week out. Seeing as Hawkins and Mackie in recent times have been dropped to work on their games, why can't this apply to Varcoe?

 

[meto]

He wasn't a matchwinner, a bit of perspective I think.

Round 5 against Hawthorn, 2 goals in the 6 goal blitz we put on in the third quarter. Both good goals, the last absolutely brilliant, but he wasn't best on ground or anything. If anything it was Menzel and Duncan in the last quarter making very important contributions that allowed us to win that.

Round 9 against Carlton, 3 terrific goals to get us going in the third quarter. Again, superb little cameo, but he was unsighted before it and drifted out again in the last.

This is what is so infuriating. He's shown this year he can perform when games are tight, but seems unwilling to do the work required over four quarters. Let alone week in week out. Seeing as Hawkins and Mackie in recent times have been dropped to work on their games, why can't this apply to Varcoe?

Since Tom Hawkins kicked 3 goals and had direct assist in 2 others, how is he now rated by the Varcoe crew??

Varcoe has now become media joke, known now for his softness and general fear of the contest, that's just great for our footy club, I don't think so!

Give him the flick!

 

[Vdubs]

Obviously, many here spend the game scrutinising every one of Varcoe's involvements. Never mention goals, goal assists, accurate passes, metres gained, but one dodgy effort late in the 3rd/4, which even the great Lethal Matthews partly attributed to an awkward bounce which unbalanced him, let alone a poor quality pass to him in the first place, yet it is the only involvement he had in the game.???

Has Varcoe had any role in any of our wins this year? Of course he has. As Hird said, some mids are there to be outside receivers and finishers. They can't all be tough, slowish, hard ball getters. We were blessed with Ablett, who was uniquely both a brilliant finisher and hard ball getter.. Those who hoped Varcoe would be the one likely to be most like Ablett are deluded and disappointed.

So how happy will all be when he gets dropped? The only positive if it occurs, will be the end of this Varcoe assassination thread. Yet this week is a great opportunity for Varcoe to exploit his skills at Etihad, and gain some confidence and we might just need his leg speed and finishing against Tigers. They will pose some concerns for us this week with their leg speed. Most here thought Bombers would be a push-over. Should be pretty obvious Varcoe is highly thought of by the MC, and for some reason, they in the know are a lot more patient than the experts here.

And those who reckon he is weak, gutless and an embarrassment to the jumper, keep posting if you've actually played AFL level footy, or if you could do better.

 

[Vdubs]

Since Tom Hawkins kicked 3 goals and had direct assist in 2 others, how is he now rated by the Varcoe crew??

Varcoe has now become media joke, known now for his softness and general fear of the contest, that's just great for our footy club, I don't think so!

Give him the flick!

Who are the Varcoe crew, and does support of Varcoe mean that we can't also be fans of Hawkins, and Mackie, and Lonergan, and Josh Hunt.

If by media joke you refer to this BF forum, it's your propagation. Media in general are not as insulting or scathing.

 

[The 747]

Who are the Varcoe crew, and does support of Varcoe mean that we can't also be fans of Hawkins, and Mackie, and Lonergan, and Josh Hunt.

If by media joke you refer to this BF forum, it's your propagation. Media in general are not as insulting or scathing.

No, Varcoe was singled out for that effort by one of the newspaper columnists this morning.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

He wasn't a matchwinner, a bit of perspective I think.

Round 5 against Hawthorn, 2 goals in the 6 goal blitz we put on in the third quarter. Both good goals, the last absolutely brilliant, but he wasn't best on ground or anything. If anything it was Menzel and Duncan in the last quarter making very important contributions that allowed us to win that.

Round 9 against Carlton, 3 terrific goals to get us going in the third quarter. Again, superb little cameo, but he was unsighted before it and drifted out again in the last.

This is what is so infuriating. He's shown this year he can perform when games are tight, but seems unwilling to do the work required over four quarters. Let alone week in week out. Seeing as Hawkins and Mackie in recent times have been dropped to work on their games, why can't this apply to Varcoe?

We'll just get bogged down if we start debating the notion of a match winner being someone who plays well for 4 qtrs or someone who can also do something in a burst that changes the course of the match; moving on

I guess this is where we differ. I dont see it as infuriating. I see a guy out of form at times who flashes into brilliant form, who is doing alot of running whether people want to admit it or not but in the end no one debates he is not putting enough pressure at the contest when required. He hasnt always been like this as a player, and I have seen plenty of very good players in my time have poor seasons, reasons? Who knows basically. Is he exempt from being dropped is your point? Absolutely not and who would ever really say that? The point some of us make is that even in his current form he is valuable to the side. The fact he keeps getting picked is probably testament to that. Come finals however there are plenty of guys putting their hand up to be picked right now and as someone else mentioned even young Cowan is starting to look a likely type so is he a cert to play finals? On current form, absolutely not. But obviously I tend to be one of his supporters as to the type of player we need.

I think as Veedubs mentioned what we might actually be witnessing is how important Gaz was to the team. He could do the running from end to end, break lines and still get his head over the footy; amazing and not many can do it.

 

[PatrickBateman]

So how happy will all be when he gets dropped? The only positive if it occurs, will be the end of this Varcoe assassination thread.

Why not drop him?

Are you saying that no player has ever been advantaged by being dropped?? Plenty of players over the years have come back for the better after being dropped, more likely than not it happens to senior(best 22) players who are in a rut. Is this guy so damn fragile that he is exempt? He continues to perform well below his best week after week, the logical thing to do would be drop him.

How is criticising the guy 'assassinating' him? Explain yourself. Either that or label yourself one of these emotional supporters like 'TheHonestyPolicy', who take any criticism of our players to heart.

 

[vinum coupe]

Never mention goals, goal assists, accurate passes, metres gained,

How was that goal on the run from 50?
Like shelling peas.

Personally I think he is an elite runner and an even more elite kick.
He just needs to get it more. I've given up on the tackling and the gliding problem.
I'm now convinced he is playing a void filler role. (yeah I know, I'm an idiot)

 

[maryjames]

Obviously, many here spend the game scrutinising every one of Varcoe's involvements. Never mention goals, goal assists, accurate passes, metres gained, but one dodgy effort late in the 3rd/4, which even the great Lethal Matthews partly attributed to an awkward bounce which unbalanced him, let alone a poor quality pass to him in the first place, yet it is the only involvement he had in the game.???

Spot on..