Travis Varcoe

[Vdubs]

Why not drop him?

Are you saying that no player has ever been advantaged by being dropped?? Plenty of players over the years have come back for the better after being dropped, more likely than not it happens to senior(best 22) players who are in a rut. Is this guy so damn fragile that he is exempt? He continues to perform well below his best week after week, the logical thing to do would be drop him.

How is criticising the guy 'assassinating' him? Explain yourself. Either that or label yourself one of these emotional supporters like 'TheHonestyPolicy', who take any criticism of our players to heart.

All I can say to that is that some players respond differently to form slumps. The last/4 may be a sign of better things to come. His Crows game was very good. Is there not a chance that he will hit form this week against Richmond, and is he not the sort of player we need this week. Great coaches recognise the frailties of their group, and learn the best ways to get the best out of each player.

Brad Scott clearly ran out of patience with the Yips-Infested Lindsay Thomas. Hawkins got dropped and it may be a positive move, time will tell if Varcoe's demotion will work. He seriously to me seems to be the sort of player that can do "it" at any time, unpredictably. You can not have a lot of players like that, but what Varcoe brings is unpredictable brilliance, excitement, goals, goal assists, speed and frustration. It is not as if having him in the team has ever been costly. And it is highly probable, this week will be a good one. Yes, I think he is the one player that can be carried because of his upside, but if CS drops him this week, I won't be wrist slitting. I just won't go. Just kidding. Well maybe Dog is the other character that is always better in than out.

Clearly I am in the minority. Emotional?? Maybe.

 

[Belisarius]

VD wrote - 'And those who reckon he is weak, gutless and an embarrassment to the jumper, keep posting if you've actually played AFL level footy, or if you could do better.'

Sorry VD - I agree that you have every right to write what you believe and argue for it. That is part of the passion that is Aussie Rules.

But to say you cannot be critical of a player unless you have played at AFL level is an absurd statement. That means Big Footy would not exist - and virtually no one could ever be critical of any AFL footballer.

And on the flipside - you could never say how good a AFL player is - as again you could not do this without ever having experienced AFL footy. It cuts both ways - if you put down the criteria you must have played AFL before you can comment.

Can we not say how brave JBrown is for his latest collision ? No because we never played AFL. Well, personally, I think that is crap. I believe I know how it is to get an elbow to the head and get knocked out - because it has happened to me playing junior footy. Is being knocked out in the AFL any worse than being knocked out in the twos or a local game ?

If you can have an opinion that someone is couragous then you can have an opinion that someone is not. Simple as that.

It sounds to me as if you have that old idea that it is not racist if you say something good about a race of people - and only racist if you say something that denegrates a race.

You are happy to write what is good about certain players but somehow we cannot say anything negative about them.

I reckon they are all opinions regardless who makes the statement. Sure some opinions have experience behind them - but how many people reckon that Brereton and Walls are full of shite - yet they played the game and won Premierships. Because they played AFL - you now have to believe them ?

We rarely see our own biases but we see other people's so clearly. We see what we want to see and we believe it to be the truth. Others see their truth, tell us and we think it is BS. Its all relative my friend.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

Varcoe stays and is in our best 22
that run from the backline through the middle was electrifying. I personally don't think his body could handle getting crunched side on or from front on like a Selwood, Bartel, Corey or Ling can. Would much rather leave the brave acts to those boys and allow Varcoe to gain fitness week by week with no setback's. He's definitely starting to show us signs of his past form if only in glimpses. We really haven't got another type of player like him apart from Wojak, Byrnes and perhaps Menzel. Be good if supporters could just leave him for a while and allow him to find fitness gradually rather than expecting him to be another Selwood-type player after his 1st 4 or 5 games for season 2011.

And 747, we all know journalists back stab whoever they feel the need to in order to gain promotion's, I can say with confidence that journo wouldn't even dare to try and play suburban footy for the life of them let alone give up the lunchtime dunkin donuts snack

 

[vinum coupe]

I just saw Varcoes 3rd quarter effort on one week at a time.
Not as bad as I thought when it happened.
The ball just didn't bounce right. Crap effort but not in a gutless way.

Jesus Hunt won't like that 2006 footage being shown again. Now that was gutless.

 

[Vdubs]

VD wrote - 'And those who reckon he is weak, gutless and an embarrassment to the jumper, keep posting if you've actually played AFL level footy, or if you could do better.'

Sorry VD - I agree that you have every right to write what you believe and argue for it. That is part of the passion that is Aussie Rules.

But to say you cannot be critical of a player unless you have played at AFL level is an absurd statement. That means Big Footy would not exist - and virtually no one could ever be critical of any AFL footballer.

And on the flipside - you could never say how good a AFL player is - as again you could not do this without ever having experienced AFL footy. It cuts both ways - if you put down the criteria you must have played AFL before you can comment.

Can we not say how brave JBrown is for his latest collision ? No because we never played AFL. Well, personally, I think that is crap. I believe I know how it is to get an elbow to the head and get knocked out - because it has happened to me playing junior footy. Is being knocked out in the AFL any worse than being knocked out in the twos or a local game ?

If you can have an opinion that someone is couragous then you can have an opinion that someone is not. Simple as that.

It sounds to me as if you have that old idea that it is not racist if you say something good about a race of people - and only racist if you say something that denegrates a race.

You are happy to write what is good about certain players but somehow we cannot say anything negative about them.

I reckon they are all opinions regardless who makes the statement. Sure some opinions have experience behind them - but how many people reckon that Brereton and Walls are full of shite - yet they played the game and won Premierships. Because they played AFL - you now have to believe them ?

We rarely see our own biases but we see other people's so clearly. We see what we want to see and we believe it to be the truth. Others see their truth, tell us and we think it is BS. Its all relative my friend.

Fair points. What I'm opposed to is the incessant picking on a player for the negatives, and yet some of the positive stuff is ignored or decried because of "weak opposition". Some here are truly obsessed with searching for and finding fault with TV this past month.
You wouldn't bring up kids like that. You wouldn't treat staff like that. Is the point of this TV thread to continually find the negative stuff to justify the thread? I saw some bad, and some good, very good in the last/4. Bit of balance would be appropriate. I guess that's what the few posts here pro Varcoe represent amidst the others. But mine being in the minority means I know nothing about footy, am too emotional, and biased. That could all be true, but I still believe TV should play this week against Tigers, because, and just in case.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

I just saw Varcoes 3rd quarter effort on one week at a time.
Not as bad as I thought when it happened.
The ball just didn't bounce right. Crap effort but not in a gutless way.

Jesus Hunt won't like that 2006 footage being shown again. Now that was gutless.

ye they seemed to enjoy replaying that over and over and then also played the Varcoe and Bartel incidents. I know I sometimes get too emotional with this type of stuff but I thought it just would have been good to show Jimmy's mark after they implied he was chickening out
[YOUTUBE]e1GwJ5OqV6o[/YOUTUBE]
or even perhaps this Selwood beauty
[YOUTUBE]rTEeBkLbXic[/YOUTUBE]


they are equal to Jonathan Brown's courage. No mention to Lonergan who ran back like Toovey did and luckily didn't have the same outcome as Toovey or Brown.

 

[Scottland2007]

VD wrote - 'And those who reckon he is weak, gutless and an embarrassment to the jumper, keep posting if you've actually played AFL level footy, or if you could do better.'

Sorry VD - I agree that you have every right to write what you believe and argue for it. That is part of the passion that is Aussie Rules.

But to say you cannot be critical of a player unless you have played at AFL level is an absurd statement. That means Big Footy would not exist - and virtually no one could ever be critical of any AFL footballer.

And on the flipside - you could never say how good a AFL player is - as again you could not do this without ever having experienced AFL footy. It cuts both ways - if you put down the criteria you must have played AFL before you can comment.

Can we not say how brave JBrown is for his latest collision ? No because we never played AFL. Well, personally, I think that is crap. I believe I know how it is to get an elbow to the head and get knocked out - because it has happened to me playing junior footy. Is being knocked out in the AFL any worse than being knocked out in the twos or a local game ?

If you can have an opinion that someone is couragous then you can have an opinion that someone is not. Simple as that.

It sounds to me as if you have that old idea that it is not racist if you say something good about a race of people - and only racist if you say something that denegrates a race.

You are happy to write what is good about certain players but somehow we cannot say anything negative about them.

I reckon they are all opinions regardless who makes the statement. Sure some opinions have experience behind them - but how many people reckon that Brereton and Walls are full of shite - yet they played the game and won Premierships. Because they played AFL - you now have to believe them ?

We rarely see our own biases but we see other people's so clearly. We see what we want to see and we believe it to be the truth. Others see their truth, tell us and we think it is BS. Its all relative my friend.

Well said Belisarius. Does that mean you have to be a professional singer to have an opinion on Australian Idol or worked in the movie industry to have an opinion on a movie or even worked in the armed forces to have an opinion on Survivor? Of course not, eveybody has an opinion. Part of the growth of AFL is because people enjoy it who have come from other sports or even other countries and have enjoyed watching the game.

 

[PatrickBateman]

I just saw Varcoes 3rd quarter effort on one week at a time.
Not as bad as I thought when it happened.
The ball just didn't bounce right. Crap effort but not in a gutless way.

Jesus Hunt won't like that 2006 footage being shown again. Now that was gutless.

Complete garbage. Hunt's effort was in a situation where the most damage can be done to a player... running back into a pack of on-coming players(same as J.Brown). You are totally exposed in this circumstance without the ability to brace for contact.

Varcoe was front on, and knew exactly when the impact was going to occur(if he wasn't so gutless to pull out) so had time to brace for it. He could have even held back and attacked the man after he took the ball, but simply pulled out of the contest totally. Not in a gutless way?? You are kidding?

 

[PatrickBateman]

Some here are truly obsessed with searching for and finding fault with TV this past month.
You wouldn't bring up kids like that. You wouldn't treat staff like that. Is the point of this TV thread to continually find the negative stuff to justify the thread?

No, we are truly obsessed with winning another Premiership. At the moment the team aren't good enough and need to improve, Varcoe for mine is number 1 on that list... that's why I'm criticising him.

Trying to draw a parallel with kids, staff etc.. is flawed. AFL players are payed a very large sum of money to perform at a certain level for 2 hours a week. This money is contributed to by the Club's members, you and me(are you a member?). I can assure you that most other jobs that average a salary of 200k a year also attract very heavy responsibility. If a company I hold stock in had lazy, under performing employees, I'd also be asking questions.

Again, take your god damn emotional cap off and stop being so loyal to individuals. None of them are above the club.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Some here are truly obsessed with searching for and finding fault with TV this past month.
You wouldn't bring up kids like that. You wouldn't treat staff like that. Is the point of this TV thread to continually find the negative stuff to justify the thread?

No, we are truly obsessed with winning another Premiership. At the moment the team aren't good enough and need to improve, Varcoe for mine is number 1 on that list... that's why I'm criticising him.

Trying to draw a parallel with kids, staff etc.. is flawed. AFL players are payed a very large sum of money to perform at a certain level for 2 hours a week. This money is contributed to by the Club's members, you and me(are you a member?). I can assure you that most other jobs that average a salary of 200k a year also attract very heavy responsibility. If a company I hold stock in had lazy, under performing employees, I'd also be asking questions. The only difference between these 2 examples is our return on investment is not money, its the expectation that our players put in close to 100% every week. Varcoe is far from that. He's out of excuses and so are you.

Again, take your god damn emotional cap off and stop being so loyal to individuals. None of them are above the club.

 

[Casey Cat]

I just saw Varcoes 3rd quarter effort on one week at a time.
Not as bad as I thought when it happened.
The ball just didn't bounce right. Crap effort but not in a gutless way.

Jesus Hunt won't like that 2006 footage being shown again. Now that was gutless.

I had a chance to finally watch the game last night and waited to see the incident where Trav showed a yellow streak as wide as the Yangtze.... and I kept on waiting..... Then I realized the incident everyone was referring to was when he was in the clear and the ball was kicked over his head and he ran on to try and pick it up, it bounced funny and he clearly tried to tap it into space so he could run on into the open forward line. He stuffed it up and it didn't work. Too cute, not cowardly. It was a "Fail" for execution not for bravery.

 

[Partridge]

No, we are truly obsessed with winning another Premiership. At the moment the team aren't good enough and need to improve, Varcoe for mine is number 1 on that list... that's why I'm criticising him.

Trying to draw a parallel with kids, staff etc.. is flawed. AFL players are payed a very large sum of money to perform at a certain level for 2 hours a week. This money is contributed to by the Club's members, you and me(are you a member?). I can assure you that most other jobs that average a salary of 200k a year also attract very heavy responsibility. If a company I hold stock in had lazy, under performing employees, I'd also be asking questions. The only difference between these 2 examples is our return on investment is not money, its the expectation that our players put in close to 100% every week. Varcoe is far from that. He's out of excuses and so are you.

Again, take your god damn emotional cap off and stop being so loyal to individuals. None of them are above the club.

Can't fault anything you've said there. It's great to give underperforming players time and everything, but I still don't see why Varcoe is immune from demotion to the seconds where a lot of other players (who work much harder) aren't.

Quite curious about people saying wait for the finals, that's when the physical intensity goes up. If he stays the same as he is now he'll be the Geelong version of Leon Davis. Not exactly what we need.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Too cute, not cowardly. It was a "Fail" for execution not for bravery.

Well everyone else I've spoken to, as well as several media outlets all disagree with you.

 

[Partridge]

I just saw Varcoes 3rd quarter effort on one week at a time.
Not as bad as I thought when it happened.
The ball just didn't bounce right. Crap effort but not in a gutless way.

Jesus Hunt won't like that 2006 footage being shown again. Now that was gutless.

Yeah, it was.

You know what made it worse? I predicted it before it happened.

 

[vinum coupe]

I had a chance to finally watch the game last night and waited to see the incident where Trav showed a yellow streak as wide as the Yangtze.... and I kept on waiting..... Then I realized the incident everyone was referring to was when he was in the clear and the ball was kicked over his head and he ran on to try and pick it up, it bounced funny and he clearly tried to tap it into space so he could run on into the open forward line. He stuffed it up and it didn't work. Too cute, not cowardly. It was a "Fail" for execution not for bravery.

What made the moment worse was that it was a moment when we couldn't afford to turn it over.

Varcoe tends to try and play clean footy I feel. Almost like touch footy. It has nothing to do with guts.

I was a 70kg player and was cleaned up every week but I also liked to try and play clean footy.
i.e. in that situation I know I have an opponent coming and I just try to not take possession unless I can get clear. So I'd tap it out wide a try to catch you off foot and away we go.

Varcoe is doing it too much though. In that instance it was like he wanted to get it, turn inside and give it off before being tackled.

You know what Gazza would have done in that scenario? Take the hit and either give the dont argue or give it off. Would prefer the Gazza way 85% of the time.

He might have heard footsteps and panicked, but no way would I call it gutless.

I've knocked Varcoe as much as anyone. But that was just crap play on his behalf. It had nothing to do with courage or the lack thereof

 

[vinum coupe]

Yeah, it was.

You know what made it worse? I predicted it before it happened.

You know what made it worse for me? I predicted the kick would be crap before it happened.

Was it Bartel again? I can't remember. What they are having real problems with delivering the ball up the ground. They keep putting it out in front. It was something Gazza was great at (and Varcoe is). Putting the ball on the tit of a player running away from them.

And yes. I had a feeling Varcoe wasn't going to get control of that ball either. "please don't turn this over, please don't turn this over. Oh F^&*"

 

[goyoucatters]

You know what made it worse for me? I predicted the kick would be crap before it happened.

Was it Bartel again? I can't remember. What they are having real problems with delivering the ball up the ground. They keep putting it out in front. It was something Gazza was great at (and Varcoe is). Putting the ball on the tit of a player running away from them.

And yes. I had a feeling Varcoe wasn't going to get control of that ball either. "please don't turn this over, please don't turn this over. Oh F^&*"

It was SJ. In these situations it seems to me that it's almost always SJ.

Can be too clever by half on more than the odd occasion.

No doubt it was a poor kick.

No doubt also that Trav's effort to win back the footy in the contested situation that resulted left a lot to be desired.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Can't fault anything you've said there. It's great to give underperforming players time and everything, but I still don't see why Varcoe is immune from demotion to the seconds where a lot of other players (who work much harder) aren't.

Quite curious about people saying wait for the finals, that's when the physical intensity goes up. If he stays the same as he is now he'll be the Geelong version of Leon Davis. Not exactly what we need.

He isnt immune at all, we had a spate of injuries and then the Selwood suspension. It was practical leaving him in at the time and then he played a better match vs Adelaide.

Moving on; Just a question for anyone?......Can you direct me to the U25's top executive division at any corporation earning 200k plus? I think some of us might have expectations of other young people we couldnt handle ourself as adults.

Sorry, and I understand the sentiments and it was well written too, but tell me a fight in the school yard with a peer is the same as going 12 rounds with Tyson. There is no way you can understand that intensity. By all means have an opinion on it all but that doesnt translate into a type of understanding that makes you all knowing or the type of abusive person that makes judgment calls.

 

[vinum coupe]

Got no idea what the point of that post was THP.
It is a young mans game.

But I can point you to a mate of mine who bought a 400k aston martin with his EOFY bonus when he was 27.
Does that help somehow?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Got no idea what the point of that post was THP.
It is a young mans game.

But I can point you to a mate of mine who bought a 400k aston martin with his EOFY bonus when he was 27.
Does that help somehow?

It was a conglomeration of other ppls posts rolled into one. What happens when you are at work with a million things going on. Maybe those who made the points might read it and understand somehow and perhaps not.

The bonus sounds great; just wonder why it didnt happen sooner might be the exact point I am making actually. Life is a process of advancement or the lack of. Some people get thrust into positions they arent quite ready for and other people never quite reach their full potential. Either way what other people expect of you is often wide of the mark regardless.

 

[vinum coupe]

Well, I think that when Travis makes errors like that he is going to draw criticism at the moment.

I think we'd all 'hope' a first gamer would handle that play better.
And we'd all 'expect' a 90 gamer to take control of the situation. Or at least break even !

He's quickly running out of pennies in the bank.
I love watching him play. One of the few players I truly enjoy when he has the ball. Needs to get on his bike quickly.

 

[Cattery]

And it is highly probable, this week will be a good one.

Why is it "highly probable" this week will be better?
You've been saying much the same thing for ages and he's played one good game from his past seven, hardly cause for optimism.

I've knocked Varcoe as much as anyone. But that was just crap play on his behalf. It had nothing to do with courage or the lack thereof

Ask yourself what his primary concern was in that instance. Was it winning the pill at any cost [ in a critical stage of the match ] or was it avoiding physical contact at all costs?

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

True VC. I can understand the constructive criticism completely.

The constant negative abuse is pretty sad stuff though.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Got no idea what the point of that post was THP.
It is a young mans game.

But I can point you to a mate of mine who bought a 400k aston martin with his EOFY bonus when he was 27.
Does that help somehow?

To help others with the confusion... 'TheHonestyPolicy' has been given 2 red cards on this thread by losing his head while quoting my posts. He still can't help himself and replies instead without directly quoting them.

The money AFL players earn is high when comparing to the 'real' world. I think making comparison to others with similar salaries gives a good indication of the responsibility they should have to their profession. It doesn't? Age is irrelevant.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Why is it "highly probable" this week will be better?
You've been saying much the same thing for ages and he's played one good game from his past seven, hardly cause for optimism.



Ask yourself what his primary concern was in that instance. Was it winning the pill at any cost [ in a critical stage of the match ] or was it avoiding physical contact at all costs?

Sometimes avoiding physical contact is about making the play Cattery. If it stuffs up it looks very ordinary, getting into what someone was thinking or not thinking at any given time is a very inexact science I find.

On the topic of getting into people's heads, does anyone know a good shrink?