Travis Varcoe

[topic97]

Yeah exactly! I thought his efforts around HF in the last quarter really sparked us into action - media reviews claim it was the Brown injury that helped, but the ball hardly made it past their HF line in the last quarter so Brown wouldnt have had an impact anyway.

Trav was great in that last quarter and really helped us lift.
I mean he should have had at least 2 goals if he had of ran a few more meters and actually tried to kick that one instead of doing a Milne...
But in having said that he had ran nearly the length of the ground!!

And as you said, with Bundy more than filling the midfield role, I dont think there is any reason why we need to keep Varcoe in there, especially when he is finding trouble getting the ball.

I wouldnt mind seeing him play more of a permanent HF this week and that, along with Hawkins with a recently extracted digit and jPod could be just the forward line tonic we need leading up to finals!!

 

[vinum coupe]

At the risk of escalating the intensity of the debate on this ............

I thought I'd have a look at some stats.
Because I was thinking to myself that he doesn't seem to be marking the ball enough.

Is he not leading up the wing / centre and providing a target?
Or is he still marking as much but you just don't notice it.
TV always seems to take a uncontested mark, and move the ball on quickly by foot. But usually only 15-20 metres. So it never really sticks in the head as being important.

Maybe he needs to get some confidence, wheel around, and just take off occasionally.

Anyway... the following stats don't really show a lowering of output. But they do seem to suggest he isn't getting in the guts of it enough (see last 3 stats)

Goals - Down about 1/2 a goal per game on 2010 - up on all other years.
Kicks - Equal with 2010 - up on all other years.
Handballs - Down 1/2 per game on 2010 - level or up on previous years
Marks - Down on every year bar his first - and down more than 1 a game on 2010
Hitouts - Level with all other years. Never had one

Tackles - Lowest year ever. Down from 4.8 per game in 08 to 2 per game now.
Frees For - Only 4 this year from 15 games - he had 14 from 17 in 2010
Frees Against - Only 4 this year from 15 games - he had 11 from 17 games in 2010

 

[topic97]

I think its good debate VC - at least now we are getting some rational discussion instead of just a major bagging session!!

See I guess the stats you have highlighted probably are indicitave of the positions he is playing in this year compared to last year and previous years where he was pretty much a permanent HF.
Especially the frees for stat, umpires are more willing to give frees to a marking forward than a midfielder for the same incidentes - heck, I cant count the amount of times that I have seen hands in the back in marking contests not paid because they are in the middle.

And perhaps his tackes are down because he just finds is hard to read play in the middle?

I am not sure, not making excuses for the bloke, but after what I saw when he was planted at HF for the last quarter last sunday its telling me he just isnt suited to playing on ball.

Hopefully the coaching staff see this and can give him a big stint there this week and see how it goes.
If he fails again there, then its definately time for twos - but he looked dangerous again last sunday and thats what we need from him!

 

[Geelong Fella]

Dennis Commetti made a good point with one of his throw away lines, "he's gone from not being rated to being overrated." Varcoe probably has lowered his output since 2009 and 2010 was just a breakout year which he hasn't matched. Our the expectations on him too high? That being said I think he can definately become a bona fide midfilelder, something like Daniel Wells has finally become, he won't be as good as Wells but has the potential to play like him, however it has taken Wells about 8 years to finally reach this level, so who knows if Varcoe ever will

 

[Partridge]

i reckon he tried to tap the ball to a team mate and then saw contact coming and second guessed himself and probably did try to avoid contact.

maybe like didak, he looks fine, feels fine but just doesnt have the confidence to take/make contact. shit man, i rolled my ankle severely 15 years ago and i am still constantly aware of where im walking as i have rolled it on the slightest crack in pavements.

That's fine, but if that's the case surely he needs to regain touch and confidence in the seconds. That's what the reserves is there for.

 

[vinum coupe]

See I guess the stats you have highlighted probably are indicitave of the positions he is playing in this year compared to last year and previous years where he was pretty much a permanent HF.
Especially the frees for stat, umpires are more willing to give frees to a marking forward than a midfielder for the same incidentes - heck, I cant count the amount of times that I have seen hands in the back in marking contests not paid because they are in the middle.

And perhaps his tackes are down because he just finds is hard to read play in the middle?

The game has changed enormously from 08 to 2011 though
I would suggest that wherever you are on the field now you are going to have the opportunity to lay a correct/incorrect bump or tackle every 2nd minute.

Ok, that might be over the top

FWIW

Stokes is up on Tackles, FF, FA against on every year
Kelly is up on Tackles, FF, FA against on every year
Chapman is up on Tackles, FF, FA against on every year
Bartel is DOWN on Tackles, FF, FA against on every year
Corey is DOWN on Tackles, FF, FA against on every year

Role changes?

 

[topic97]

Probably role and gameplan changes for those guys are changing those stats.
We are playing a more defensive type game this year so that would help in tackles up for those guys, Bartel and Corey down on taclkes is a bit suprising to me though.
Perhaps they been told to attack more in the absence of Gaz.

I still think in looking at those stats from Varcoe, perhaps it is just the fact that he cant read play as well in the mids and just isnt suited to it.
Maybe he reads it better when the balls coming in instead of having to give chase and we all over-rated his ability to play in the midfield?

Not saying that he cant play mids in the future, maybe he is still a season or two off.
I still think he could be damaging playing a more permanent role at HF this season.

After all, the dude is only 23 and I think it gets a little lost in translation sometimes with the younger blokes in that we all look at young guys like selwood and franklin who are just freaks that made immediate impact at a young age.

Not all footballers can do that and take a while to find form and consistency - hopefully this will be Trav!!

 

[darren forssman]

That's the difference between you and me, your fetish for an underperformer that could well cost this club a possible but unlikely premiership if he remains in the team.

Anti Geelong media have already tried to tait our years of recent success claiming our inability to capialize on our flag opportunities, this guy sabotages those chances.

As a Geelong supporter I will not say nothing, when I consistently see weakness displayed in any player for whatever reason.
Varcoe shirks physical contests which result in turnovers to the opposition, that's why he's a liability when the heats on, and if injury is his problem then the match commitee should be sacked, he's not injured!

do you read or are you really just the ignorant roy masters of bigfooty?

i dont have a fetish for him and am surprised as most that he hasnt done time in the seconds yet. ive stated this numerous times yet your ignorance just continually spews the varcoe lover line.

again, i said he lacked confidence in an injury he may have physically recovered from but not mentally. but your ignorance tries to label it as injury.

 

[PatrickBateman]

That's fine, but if that's the case surely he needs to regain touch and confidence in the seconds. That's what the reserves is there for.

If anyone is wondering why this discussion continues to persist, the statement above sums it up perfectly. Any other player in the same position would almost definitely of been given VFL time to regain touch/form, which we've seen with the new boys, Wojac, Hawkins(came back very well from VFL time) etc.

I'm thinking it's a fragility of mind issue with Varcoe, which I don't like at all. They're scared to drop him and harm is confidence/state of mind, on AND off field, which many of here have already speculated. Of course I'm only making assumptions, but in today's professional atmosphere, it simply isn't acceptable to nurse players like this at senior level. Culturally it just isn't a good idea for any club.

 

[tomthabuddah]

So much smack talked on this thread. In any event, TV is badly out of form, this is plain to see. For me he must be dropped and sent back to the VFL until he is back to the line breaking, game changing star we all know he can be.

 

[you pick one]

I'm out of this

 

[Leeds17]

My take, I think he's an outside player & there nothing wrong with that until you ask him to do inside things, i liken him to Riccardi or even Wojo these are players you need in the team, If the inside side of the game doesn't come naturally to you you can learn it to a point but that's it he's never going to have a Selwood mentality.

On the pullout incident on the weekend i don't think it was anywhere near as bad as made out, he made a slip second decision to brace for impact rather than go straight for the ball a bad decision no doubt but not one he should be hanged for.

I personally think that Scott should be looking at the defensive work of Chapman, Johnson, Stokes when going through midfield i personally think that's where the problem is.

 

[meto]

do you read or are you really just the ignorant roy masters of bigfooty?

i dont have a fetish for him and am surprised as most that he hasnt done time in the seconds yet. ive stated this numerous times yet your ignorance just continually spews the varcoe lover line.

again, i said he lacked confidence in an injury he may have physically recovered from but not mentally. but your ignorance tries to label it as injury.

You don't remember your own posts pal.
All you've ever done is resist the idea of him being dropped until recently, when arguing the positive would appear as blatant bias.
You jumped the bandwagon.

 

[David the Cat]

I was Johnny on the spot Sunday not to far from that non contest, Varcoe wanted nothing to do with it a long way out.
Your way off the mark with the ignorant comment on this one in my opinion.

No I'm not.

People who label ANY AFL footballer " gutless " are just plain ignorant. I can state I know that from personal experience. IF you are " gutless" as people put it, you just don't make it to that level to begin with.

Like you I am out of this thread....which has simply become a diatribe, reminiscent of similar attacks in the past on Mackie, Lonergan, Byrnes, Hawkins etc.... The attacks are disproportionate, sometimes slanderous, based on limited information, almost inevitably transitory, and in the long run, never resolved. I choose to support our players when they are finding things difficult rather than slander them under the guise of wanting the team to perform better. Yes, I have been disappointed overall at his inconsistent performances, but I believe with a player of his class, you try and get him to play through it. That is what the coaching staff and MC have done. I would suggest they know a damn sight more than the rest of us put together. On an academic level I believe their decision has been the correct one.

I even see one anti Varcoe scribe calling for the match committee to be sacked if Varcoe is playing under some cloud...truly hilarious. ( I bet Forssie got a kick out of that one!! ) Also indicative of the depth of feelings this thread has revealed.

In the end, Scott and his assistants and the MC are responsible for team selection and performance. So far, they appear to have done a great job. 14-2 is beyond most supporters dreams. Varcoe has been selected in every game bar one for the "general", and this sticks in the craw of a few people on here as they have been calling on his sacking for 3 months....with no success. As a result, the attacks on Varcoe have become more vitriolic and personal as time has gone by. I think that's a sad reflection on a few in here.

On form, Collingwood would have to be short priced favourites to win the flag. I think that's irrefutable. Geelong are a legitimate contender but an unlikely winner. I hope I am wrong and will support them till the end....ALL of them.

If Collingwood win the flag and Geelong don't, it wont be because of the selection or non-selection of Travis Varcoe as it appears some scribes in this thread are venturing to suggest.

 

[darren forssman]

You don't remember your own posts pal.
All you've ever done is resist the idea of him being dropped until recently, when arguing the positive would appear as blatant bias.
You jumped the bandwagon.

i dont think i have ever said he should/shouldnt be dropped, probably more amused at your roy masters ramblings about the sky falling as trav continues to get a game.

feel free to quote these posts and prove me wrong.

I even see one anti Varcoe scribe calling for the match committee to be sacked if Varcoe is playing under some cloud...truly hilarious. ( I bet Forssie got a kick out of that one!! ) Also indicative of the depth of feelings this thread has revealed.

nothing roy writes anymore surprises me, his ignorance knows no bounds.

 

[CF]

It's too late in the season to drop him now. He is obviously apart of the Cats plans heading into the finals. So he needs to get out there and start playing himself into better form. I think I am beginning to see some improvement in him over the last 2 or 3 games he has played. There was a time I thought it was a consideration early in the season, as a week or two in the VFL might have given him some confidence back. But it looks like the club have been working on things with him through the season and showing some faith in him which must also have the same effect. The coaching staff and Travis should be commended on that.

I still think he might be a worthwhile player to stick down back to play on the small forwards and then use his speed and ball skill to set up play from half back like we have seen Yarran and Leon Davis do so successfully. Travis has shown this skill many times when he plays midfield.

 

[Vdubs]

I'm out of this

I wish I could join you but I feel too strongly about some of the slander here . Looking forward to team selections tonight. I agree with CF that TV has shown signs of improvement, and is in our best 22, so now we have to just get him right, weekly.

 

[Vdubs]

Serious question. Does anyone here rate Daniel Wells? Currently, I'd put him ahead of ALL our mids, and he is essentially an elite outside player with exquisite skills. This year, finally, he is fit and confident and in AA form, and coming 2nd in the coaches' votes. Hasn't always been there. I see TV as a similar player POTENTIALLY, and hope sooner than later, he is there racking up heaps of quality possessions. Won't happen overnight.

Now, Wells is so confident he's also made himself more of an inside player this year, so it seems to me. NM supporters have had their frustrations with him, but he is super-elite and worth paying money for just to see his skills in action. Perseverence pays in special cases.

 

[meto]

i dont think i have ever said he should/shouldnt be dropped, probably more amused at your roy masters ramblings about the sky falling as trav continues to get a game.

feel free to quote these posts and prove me wrong.



nothing roy writes anymore surprises me, his ignorance knows no bounds.

As Travie continues to get a game, gee wiz! I'm glad your so impressed with him!!! Thought you said he should be dropped, that's the thread title, yes or no.
Man you're the biggest fence sitter on BF.
What's your take this time, changed your mind again?

 

[PatrickBateman]

No I'm not.

People who label ANY AFL footballer " gutless " are just plain ignorant. I can state I know that from personal experience. IF you are " gutless" as people put it, you just don't make it to that level to begin with.

Ask any AFL footballer(current or retired) if they've heard of others or have been called 'gutless' by their coach. It's in the culture my friend, right or wrong it happens ALL the time behind closed doors.

I choose to support our players when they are finding things difficult

What do YOU do to support him then sunshine? I don't think attempting to rebut posts on this thread(which I highly doubt he'd read) complies.

On an academic level I believe their decision has been the correct one.

Relating player selection to academia? You're telling us all that we are making assumptions based on little information, yet you slide in the word 'academic' to somehow try to strengthen your point? FAIL!

I even see one anti Varcoe scribe calling for the match committee to be sacked if Varcoe is playing under some cloud...truly hilarious. ( I bet Forssie got a kick out of that one!! ) Also indicative of the depth of feelings this thread has revealed.

Please re-quote this, otherwise you are again talking rubbish to sensationalise your posts.

the attacks on Varcoe

Attacks? Grow up precious.

If Collingwood win the flag and Geelong don't, it wont be because of the selection or non-selection of Travis Varcoe as it appears some scribes in this thread are venturing to suggest.

The King of contradiction has done it again! After grilling us all for making assumptions has made a very stupid, unfounded one of his own.

 

[darren forssman]

As Travie continues to get a game, gee wiz! I'm glad your so impressed with him!!! Thought you said he should be dropped, that's the thread title, yes or no.
Man you're the biggest fence sitter on BF.
What's your take this time, changed your mind again?

lack of comprehension roy?

thread title is "travis varcoe".

like how you divert when called out on these posts of mine.

 

[Partridge]

Serious question. Does anyone here rate Daniel Wells? Currently, I'd put him ahead of ALL our mids, and he is essentially an elite outside player with exquisite skills. This year, finally, he is fit and confident and in AA form, and coming 2nd in the coaches' votes. Hasn't always been there. I see TV as a similar player POTENTIALLY, and hope sooner than later, he is there racking up heaps of quality possessions. Won't happen overnight.

Nope. Never have. Overrated and soft. Also specialises in disappearing in finals.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I couldn't ever rate Wells ahead of Selwood or Bartel (for starters). Guys who get the ball to me are always more valuable than those who wait for it.

 

[Partridge]

In the end, Scott and his assistants and the MC are responsible for team selection and performance. So far, they appear to have done a great job. 14-2 is beyond most supporters dreams. Varcoe has been selected in every game bar one for the "general", and this sticks in the craw of a few people on here as they have been calling on his sacking for 3 months....with no success. As a result, the attacks on Varcoe have become more vitriolic and personal as time has gone by. I think that's a sad reflection on a few in here.

Calling for demotion to the seconds, I can't recall anyone saying he should be sacked. When he's prepared to work as hard as every other Geelong player, he's absolutely required in our best side. That's been said many times.

If Collingwood win the flag and Geelong don't, it wont be because of the selection or non-selection of Travis Varcoe as it appears some scribes in this thread are venturing to suggest.

If we lose by 3 points because he pulls out of a contest - again - then it could be.

 

[vinum coupe]

Serious question. Does anyone here rate Daniel Wells? Currently, I'd put him ahead of ALL our mids, and he is essentially an elite outside player with exquisite skills. This year, finally, he is fit and confident and in AA form, and coming 2nd in the coaches' votes. Hasn't always been there. I see TV as a similar player POTENTIALLY, and hope sooner than later, he is there racking up heaps of quality possessions. Won't happen overnight.

Now, Wells is so confident he's also made himself more of an inside player this year, so it seems to me. NM supporters have had their frustrations with him, but he is super-elite and worth paying money for just to see his skills in action. Perseverence pays in special cases.

Dangerous comparison.
Wells and Tambling you could say were similar.
Wells has come good, Tambling hasn't.
Please don't tell me I'm going to have to go through 7 years of waiting to find out if TV will come good.

I have been frustrated watching Wells and Tambling through their careers and I don't even follow those clubs. God knows what I'd be like if it was one of our own.

I've been playing supercoach since day one. Was that 2003? And I had Wells in my side every year until last. Drove me crazy waiting for him to come good. I had Hawkins in the team last year and TV the last two years. Same story. Frustrating. Sorry for the sidetrack

 

[PatrickBateman]

Calling for demotion to the seconds, I can't recall anyone saying he should be sacked. When he's prepared to work as hard as every other Geelong player, he's absolutely required in our best side. That's been said many times.

That's how 'David The Cat' and others with a similar state of mind take this, like it's a personal attack against Varcoe and his faithful to go back and do time in the VFL. It's not an attack, it could be a step forward for him and the club.
Continuing to play Varcoe at AFL level isn't getting him back to where he or the club needs him to be at.

So, David the Cat's solution is: Maintain the seemingly fragile state of Varcoe and 'some' of his fans(no other conclusion is viable) by allowing him to continue his plateau at AFL level. Even if it is at the detriment of the club, its players and possibly success.

And I agree totally with you Partridge, we all want him back to his best. I see the only argument for him remaining in the side is that we're standing at 14-2, which he's been part of. Pathetic. It means nothing and WE NEED TO IMPROVE as a team!

Scott said it last week, we have been nothing but an average team for the majority of our game time this year. Accepting mediocrity while we are a genuine contender David the Cat? No idea.