Treatment versus Vaccine

[Lavender Bushranger]

I'm sending this message on behalf of Bojurrow who was removed from this board largely for touting the benefits of Ivermectin.

I contracted COVID in Florida about two weeks ago. Luckily, I had put my money where my mouth is and secured 16 Ivermectin pills from a doctor on the FLCCC website. Now those pills were meant to be used as a preventative, but the day they arrived was the same day I lost my taste and smell, so I used them straightaway for treatment.

So, does Ivermectin work in my experience? Like a wonder a drug. The only symptoms I ever had were a low-grade fever and that was gone the second day. That was it. My brother contracted COVID around the same time I did and he had a similar experience with Ivermectin. The virus was gone within 24 hours.

If Ivermectin were used as a preventative, COVID would no longer be an issue anywhere. The fact that it is being withheld from the public will eventually be seen as a criminal act. People are needlessly dying from a very treatable illness because appropriate therapy is being kept from them.

I've included a photo of my bottle with the Big Footy website visible in background.

Ivermectin, COVID-19, and making sense of scientific evidence

Few scientific issues seem to get people as excited as ivermectin but what does the evidence say about the potential COVID-19 treatment?

www.smh.com.au

 

[The Sultan]

Ivermectin, COVID-19, and making sense of scientific evidence

Few scientific issues seem to get people as excited as ivermectin but what does the evidence say about the potential COVID-19 treatment?

www.smh.com.au

when i was much younger I had a bit of a cold, but my mates still wanted me to go out on the turps. I relented and proceeded to get blind drunk, the next day my cold had gone.

Conclution alcohol cures the common cold.

if the government were telling these people to take Ivermectin and not some internet shill, would they take it ?

 

[Goosecat]

Effect of Fluvoxamine vs Placebo on Clinical Deterioration in Outpatients With Symptomatic COVID-19

This randomized trial compares the effects of fluvoxamine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor with immunomodulatory effects vs placebo on a composite of dyspnea or pneumonia and oxygen desaturation among adult outpatients with polymerase chain reaction–confirmed mild coronavirus disease...

jamanetwork.com

 

[MisterMarcus]

Effect of Fluvoxamine vs Placebo on Clinical Deterioration in Outpatients With Symptomatic COVID-19

This randomized trial compares the effects of fluvoxamine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor with immunomodulatory effects vs placebo on a composite of dyspnea or pneumonia and oxygen desaturation among adult outpatients with polymerase chain reaction–confirmed mild coronavirus disease...

jamanetwork.com

The authors themselves admit that this only a very preliminary study, and the results might at best be worth looking into further.

They don't claim to know how or why this might work, even if it does.

 

[MisterMarcus]

The authors themselves admit that this only a very preliminary study, and the results might at best be worth looking into further.

They don't claim to know how or why this might work, even if it does.

Note also a comment by a reader of that article

In this study, the authors relied exclusively on subjective patient reported data to determine the outcomes. One can only conclude that subjective symptoms of worsening were less reported in patient taking a medication that is indicated to treat anxiety. Furthermore, the dosing pattern of intervention was similar to its use in treating social anxiety.

I believe that this preliminary study should be interpreted as 'fluvoxamine lessens anxiety and improves psychological well being in patients suffering this disease associated with significant anxie,' rather than assuming that the medication has a direct biochemical effect on the severity of the illness. In this study I think fluvoxamine likely treated the anxiety component associated with the disease rather than modified the body immune response to the disease

 

[Goosecat]

The authors themselves admit that this only a very preliminary study, and the results might at best be worth looking into further.

They don't claim to know how or why this might work, even if it does.

Yep, all true. Nonetheless I think it is ok to keep tabs on developments and research in the area, providing it at least isn't coming from obvious "extreme" or "compromised" standpoints. The world is looking for treatment options.

 

[kingswood71]

Yep, all true. Nonetheless I think it is ok to keep tabs on developments and research in the area, providing it at least isn't coming from obvious "extreme" or "compromised" standpoints. The world is looking for treatment options.

Yep. Smaller studies still add to the body of knowledge and sometimes lead to larger studies.

 

[Mofra]

From the front lines:

Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I'm running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot

A doctor featured in a Times article published Sunday on the latest wave of COVID-19 speaks for herself in a searing letter to unvaccinated people.

www.latimes.com

 

[kingswood71]

From the front lines:

Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I'm running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot

A doctor featured in a Times article published Sunday on the latest wave of COVID-19 speaks for herself in a searing letter to unvaccinated people.

www.latimes.com

Thanks for this.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

From the front lines:

Op-Ed: As a doctor in a COVID unit, I'm running out of compassion for the unvaccinated. Get the shot

A doctor featured in a Times article published Sunday on the latest wave of COVID-19 speaks for herself in a searing letter to unvaccinated people.

www.latimes.com

If anyone is interested in the experience of people on the front line, have a listen to this. Guy Maddison btw was the bass player in legendary Sydney noise band Lubricated Goat and now is the bassist in grunge legends Mudhoney.

About Emergency Room: The Covid Diaries (Links, Stats, and Info) | Podbay

Read more information and see the release schedule about Emergency Room: The Covid Diaries on Podbay.

podbay.fm

 

[Mofra]

If anyone is interested in the experience of people on the front line, have a listen to this. Guy Maddison btw was the bass player in legendary Sydney noise band Lubricated Goat and now is the bassist in grunge legends Mudhoney.

About Emergency Room: The Covid Diaries (Links, Stats, and Info) | Podbay

Read more information and see the release schedule about Emergency Room: The Covid Diaries on Podbay.

podbay.fm

A friend of mine is an ICU nurse (who battled Covid last year) and some of the stories are horrible, and that's just from survivors.

 

[Jibroni]

Best video I have seen on the subject, I wish I had a truck to buy some:

 

[The 747]

Best video I have seen on the subject, I wish I had a truck to buy some:

It is subsidised under the PBS, just go get yourself a script for the wonder drug

 

[Goosecat]

It is subsidised under the PBS, just go get yourself a script for the wonder drug

Just grab some from your local Sheep farmer, no script required. At 0.8g/litre Ivermectin active ingredient the dose is roughly 2.5ml per 5kg body weight. (This is a joke by the way, go and get it from your doctor). Dosage rates of pure Ivermection in human oral form is much smaller and measured in mcg, your doctor will let you know.
Is it safe? Yes, used all around the world, including Australia, in humans treating various parasites and won it's discoverers the Nobel prize for medicine.
Not saying it is or isn't proven effective but I do buy into the thought process that a world genuinely wanting as many people as possible "immune" to this disease and it's symptomatic spread, will require a composite of all possible solutions and all human groupings covered. If you are in that group that can't be vaccinated or even if you are in the group that refuses due to all the unknowns, it wont hurt to have this very safe drug, with long, well known usage and safety data, sitting in your armoury.
Despite the way such a view might be attacked by ideologues it is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Just grab some from your local Sheep farmer, no script required. At 0.8g/litre Ivermectin active ingredient the dose is roughly 2.5ml per 5kg body weight. (This is a joke by the way, go and get it from your doctor). Dosage rates of pure Ivermection in human oral form is much smaller and measured in mcg, your doctor will let you know.
Is it safe? Yes, used all around the world, including Australia, in humans treating various parasites and won it's discovers the Nobel prize for medicine.
Not saying it is or isn't proven effective but I do buy into the thought process that a world genuinely wanting as many people as possible "immune" to this disease and it's symptomatic spread, will require a composite of all possible solutions and all human groupings covered. If you are in that group that can't be vaccinated or even if you are in the group that refuses due to all the unknowns, it wont hurt to have this very safe drug, with long, well known usage and safety data, sitting in your armoury.
Despite the way such a view might be attacked by ideologues it is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

Isn't the argument from anti-vaxxers that "vaccines haven't been proven effective"?

If that's so, why would people be encouraged to take something else that "hasn't been proven effective"?

 

[Goosecat]

Isn't the argument from anti-vaxxers that "vaccines haven't been proven effective"?

If that's so, why would people be encouraged to take something else that "hasn't been proven effective"?

Please remember I am not Anti-vaccine. I'm not going to use the term "Anti-vaxxers" as you do in some effort to be hyperbolic. I think there are extremists on every subject however I also believe there are genuine, decent average people with concerns around these new vaccines and the way they are constructed. We will get most of them covered through coercion and mandatory measures but a percentage will require all options available to limit /reduce cough and other symptoms and affect antibody levels.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Please remember I am not Anti-vaccine. I'm not going to use the term "Anti-vaxxers" as you do in some effort to be hyperbolic. I think there are extremists on every subject however I also believe there are genuine, decent average people with concerns around these new vaccines and the way they are constructed. We will get most of them covered through coercion and mandatory measures but a percentage will require all options available to limit /reduce cough and other symptoms and affect antibody levels.

I believe that too....but the sad reality is that most of these 'concerns' are deliberately stoked by anti-vaxxers and their lies and misinformation.

It's important to call out these people when we can, and at least try to stop them.

 

[Goosecat]

I believe that too....but the sad reality is that most of these 'concerns' are deliberately stoked by anti-vaxxers and their lies and misinformation.

It's important to call out these people when we can, and at least try to stop them.

That's fine and reasonable. Just remember to not lose site of the end goal however. It's not a black and white ideological fist-fight. There will be groups, through various mechanisms, not the least being poverty, isolation, availability, religions etc, around the world, for whom Vaccine cannot be the sole available option if we are genuine in our attempts to control this disease for everyone possible.

 

[MisterMarcus]

That's fine and reasonable. Just remember to not lose site of the end goal however. It's not a black and white ideological fist-fight. There will be groups, through various mechanisms, not the least being poverty, isolation, availability, religions etc, around the world, for whom Vaccine cannot be the sole available option if we are genuine in our attempts to control this disease for everyone possible.

I'm a scientist, so ideology (as you put it) doesn't come into it for me. I believe in vaccination because science has shown it to be effective, and that most of the scaremongering 'risks' to be exceedingly minimal. I am strongly against anti-vaxxers because their positions are not based in scientific fact.

If the vaccine is not available or accessible, then the focus should be on trying to make it available and accessible. Not on encouraging unknown/unproven remedies that might do more harm than good.

 

[Goosecat]

I'm a scientist, so ideology (as you put it) doesn't come into it for me. I believe in vaccination because science has shown it to be effective, and that most of the scaremongering 'risks' to be exceedingly minimal. I am strongly against anti-vaxxers because their positions are not based in scientific fact.

If the vaccine is not available or accessible, then the focus should be on trying to make it available and accessible. Not on encouraging unknown/unproven remedies that might do more harm than good.

Scientist or not, I detect a strong ideological stance that perhaps limits your own ability to grasp new information and learn new things at times. Plenty of scientists have ended up being completely wrong or misguided down the track.

 

[Fryman]

I'm a scientist, so ideology (as you put it) doesn't come into it for me. I believe in vaccination because science has shown it to be effective, and that most of the scaremongering 'risks' to be exceedingly minimal. I am strongly against anti-vaxxers because their positions are not based in scientific fact.

Please stop with the scientist shtick.

Your turning yourself into a meme and convincing no one.

 

[The 747]

Scientist or not, I detect a strong ideological stance that perhaps limits your own ability to grasp new information and learn new things at times. Plenty of scientists have ended up being completely wrong or misguided down the track.

Scientists are frequently proven wrong by new information, it is an important part of the scientific method.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Scientist or not, I detect a strong ideological stance that perhaps limits your own ability to grasp new information and learn new things at times. Plenty of scientists have ended up being completely wrong or misguided down the track.

Ugh.....

No offence, but the whole "closed minded ideological scientist unwilling to learn new things" is yet another standard anti-vax/anti-med talking point that I've encountered many times before.

You say you're not anti-vaccine, and I guess I want to believe you. But it's not helping when you sing straight from their songbook.....

 

[Goosecat]

Ugh.....

No offence, but the whole "closed minded ideological scientist unwilling to learn new things" is yet another standard anti-vax/anti-med talking point that I've encountered many times before.

You say you're not anti-vaccine, and I guess I want to believe you. But it's not helping when you sing straight from their songbook.....

Oh I'm definitely not 'Anti Vax" as you seem to like to Hyperbolize yourself. I'm fine with people judging me on my own comments on the matter.
I do generally try to strike a central stance as much as possible however. Perhaps that's not sensationally argumentative enough for you.
The more I interact with yourself however the more I doubt you have much real scientific "Gravitas" shall we say.
If you have any you are starting to sound more and more like all the medical scientists around the world who insisted Parkinson's Disease was nothing more than an attention seeking mental figmentation with no evidence otherwise. Ah scientists who are so sure of everything. What did Oppenheimer reference? "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds".
You don't do science or your fellow scientists any favours with the dogma.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Oh I'm definitely not 'Anti Vax" as you seem to like to Hyperbolize yourself. I'm fine with people judging me on my own comments on the matter.
I do generally try to strike a central stance as much as possible however. Perhaps that's not sensationally argumentative enough for you.
The more I interact with yourself however the more I doubt you have much real scientific "Gravitas" shall we say.
If you have any you are starting to sound more and more like all the medical scientists around the world who insisted Parkinson's Disease was nothing more than an attention seeking mental figmentation with no evidence otherwise. Ah scientists who are so sure of everything. What did Oppenheimer reference? "Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds".
You don't do science or your fellow scientists any favours with the dogma.

Fair enough....if you don't trust science and scientists, I can't force you to.

I hope for your daughter's sake that enough believe and trust the science of vaccination to provide enough herd immunity for her.