Trent Cotchin or Matthew Kreuzer

[murph#3]

But what if something happens? What if a Carlton player wants out? What if Collingwood somehow poach a star? What if Collingwood draft two kids like Joel Selwood? What if Walker and Grigg don't come on?

Too many variables to say definitively that Carlton will have the best midfield. You're an idiot for not realising this.

you're an idiot for not realising that i acknowledged this in my previous post.

all of those things may well happen, but like i said in my last post it is pretty obvious carlton have the best young midfield prospects. whether that translates to us having the best midfield in 3-4 years time, as you quite rightly pointed out, is a different story. and i acknowledge that.

 

[cormick]

If I haven't already said, I think Carlton made the right choice.

 

[TheRedPill]

I honestly don't know who's worse...

We'll find out who has the best midfield in 4-5 years in 4-5 years... stupid to make statements asserting otherwise.

In that case, who will you have apart from Murphy and Gibbs?

Judd will be 29 in 4 years and a very good player, but not the player he was 2 years ago.

Gibbs, Murphy and Cotchin would have dominated the league together for 15 years.

But it's not to be.

You missed your chance

You can have your bad days but this is woeful...

 

[Heisenberg_]

thank god that halfwit has a red card.
WTF is it obvious that Carlton will have the best midfield in 3-4 years?

 

[matey]

Will go down as one of the biggest draft blunders. Cotchin will become elite. To become elite you need to have alot of resolve and I have never seen Kreuzer stand up to anyone or even have a stiff upper lip. I just compare him to some of the big boys Hawks have drafted last couple of years they stood up and were thrown around like rag dolls early on but not now. The point is its all about attitude and Kreuzer's attitude will see him go missing in games.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Without a doubt, we would still take Kreuzer.

Err, according to the poll there may in fact be some doubt.

 

[tazhawk]

I always vote to opposite to Parrot ............ that way I know I have picked the right option.

 

[davemills]

except we're developing the best midfield of the afl in 3-4 years and you guys only have deledio and foley. so it wouldn't have mattered for you, whereas we had the luxury of being able to overlook cotchin you guys didn't.

Mind if I re-work your post to give it some accuracy?

we had the necesity to overlook cotchin, not the luxury. If we had a decent ruckmen, there is no doubt Cotchin would have been a fantastic addition to our midfield, even though we are developing a top midfield. You guys only have deledio and foley that I know of, I really don't know much else about your midfield.

That'd probably be more accurate I would have thought.

 

[Halk Tawker]

I reckon the Blues made the right decision. Give Kreuzer a few years and he will be a player...

 

[The Cotch]

Will go down as one of the biggest draft blunders. Cotchin will become elite. To become elite you need to have alot of resolve and I have never seen Kreuzer stand up to anyone or even have a stiff upper lip. I just compare him to some of the big boys Hawks have drafted last couple of years they stood up and were thrown around like rag dolls early on but not now. The point is its all about attitude and Kreuzer's attitude will see him go missing in games.

That is simply not true. Do you know Kreuz yourself? He has a lot of heart and ticker.

In reply to the thread, my bias says Cotchin will be better, but Kreuzer might be more important to the Blues than Cotchin would be.

I wouldnt be surprised to see both of them captain their respective clubs in 5 years.

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

lol this thread is a joke

Is anyone apart from Murph#3 taking this that seriously?

I think a majority of the people agree that while Cotchin may be better, Carlton are most likely going to be better off with the Kreuz who is a rarity.

I think Richmond supporters are having a bit of fun with this thread because it reminds us of when Hawthorn supporters were rubbing it in for picking Tambling.

 

[TheRedPill]

Will go down as one of the biggest draft blunders. Cotchin will become elite. To become elite you need to have alot of resolve and I have never seen Kreuzer stand up to anyone or even have a stiff upper lip. I just compare him to some of the big boys Hawks have drafted last couple of years they stood up and were thrown around like rag dolls early on but not now. The point is its all about attitude and Kreuzer's attitude will see him go missing in games.

Mind if I re-work your post to give it some accuracy?

we had the necesity to overlook cotchin, not the luxury. If we had a decent ruckmen, there is no doubt Cotchin would have been a fantastic addition to our midfield, even though we are developing a top midfield. You guys only have deledio and foley that I know of, I really don't know much else about your midfield.

That'd probably be more accurate I would have thought.

k kids, just run along to Bay 13, leave this place for the grown-ups.

I agree that this thread has been a joke from the start... murph#3... ****ing hell.

 

[cormick]

Murph aint taking it too seriously anymore

 

[matey]

That is simply not true. Do you know Kreuz yourself? He has a lot of heart and ticker.

In reply to the thread, my bias says Cotchin will be better, but Kreuzer might be more important to the Blues than Cotchin would be.

I wouldnt be surprised to see both of them captain their respective clubs in 5 years.

For a bloke his size he is way to nice out on the field and I reckon this will hold him back. Not expecting him to have an immediate presence physically but you would still like to see him try. Kreuzer looks more natural when loose and having a run. During tight tough ruthless pressure games he may get found out. Don't need to know the guy just making a call from seeing him a few times and the way he goes about it.

Cotchin has skill, resolve and composure would take him before Kreuzer without thinking twice. This bloke could be Tigers future captain but I would put my money on Murphy or Gibbs to be Carlton's next.

 

[matey]

k kids, just run along to Bay 13, leave this place for the grown-ups.

I agree that this thread has been a joke from the start... murph#3... ****ing hell.

Why because I would choose Cotchin over Kreuzer and I see a potential issue in Kreuzers resolve/character. Don't get me wrong I think Kreuzer is very skillful and moves very very well for his size but I have a question over his resolve/attitude which is so important as a bigman.

As an example never forget the first game I saw Buddy/Roughy play the Lions at the 'G' both 18. Roughy got taught a lesson by Mal behind play but Buddy was funniest. He walked up and went toe to toe with Leppitsch to say I have arrived and got thrown around like a ragdoll. It did not matter but you could see that they both had attitude and would not take a backward step to anyone. Today two of the best power forwards going around. Teams have learnt not to try and physically intimidate them because it is pointless it would only fire them up. Kreuzer does not show this he seems to nice. Dowler is a player from my team who I think is the same!

 

[TheRedPill]

Why because I would choose Cotchin over Kreuzer and I see a potential issue in Kreuzers resolve/character. Don't get me wrong I think Kreuzer is very skillful and moves very very well for his size but I have a question over his resolve/attitude which is so important as a bigman.

As an example never forget the first game I saw Buddy/Roughy play the Lions at the 'G' both 18. Roughy got taught a lesson by Mal behind play but Buddy was funniest. He walked up and went toe to toe with Leppitsch to say I have arrived and got thrown around like a ragdoll. It did not matter but you could see that they both had attitude and would not take a backward step to anyone. Today two of the best power forwards going around. Teams have learnt not to try and physically intimidate them because it is pointless it would only fire them up. Kreuzer does not show this he seems to nice. Dowler is a player from my team who I think is the same!

From everything I have seen of Kreuzer, I don't think you could be any further from the truth. He plays with lots of heart and doesn't back down. You are confusing being a smartarse with being tough. I'm sure you'll see that if it comes to it, Kreuzer is happy to go toe to toe.

 

[BuddyBewdy]

carlton couldn't have gotten this pick wrong whichever way they went. i think kreuzer tipped into their favour as they already have a bevy of super midfielders coming up and needed a quality ruckman to help them out.

 

[kreuze control]

i'm still glad we took kreuzer. i still believe he will end up the better player of the two but it would not surprise me at all if cotchin ends up better. even if he does, i still think we made the right choice. i would have been very annoyed if the only thing holding us back from a premiership in a few years time was the lack of a quality ruckman. i think we already have enough midfield talent, even without cotchin i still believe we will have one of the strongest midfields in a few years.

 

[Glitch]

in reply to your first post, yes i agree kreuzer will not become a dominant tap ruckman but he will still be in the top handful in that category. he is 200cm tall, had the biggest handspan at draft camp, has a good vertical leap and kevin sheahan said he is the best junior ruckman he's ever seen int erms of being able to tap off both hands 360 degrees. that should ensure he'll at least be one of the top hadful of top ruckman.


as for the rest of your post, yes you're right in that it is too hard to predict who will have the best midfield in 3-4 years time as anything can happen between now and then but it is pretty obvious carlton have the best young midfield talent. and collingwood's midfield will not become better than carlton's. the sooner you accept that the better.

I am going to ignore your rating of Kevin Sheean's comments for this response, though that alone probably deserves a bigger response.

As far as young talent goes, you are a bit deluded. Murphy and Gibbs are young and who else? Judd is already a 1/4 century old. Stephens is how old - am open to the answer as I really don't know?

Others have used Collingwood etc, as an example, I will use Richmond.
Foley, Cotchin and Deledio are three you MAY know of. There are plenty of others who have potential as well which I will not confuse you with.

Foley almost AA and a top extractor.
Cotchin one of the most exciting young talents I have ever seen.
Deledio a top player (AA quality) and still getting better in leaps and bounds.

I would take Cotchin before, Deledio, Gibbs or Murhphy in a heartbeat. Foley may be ever so slightly below those, but still a gun who can really shape a game.

But the real point here is to show how close the 'young talent' is between our sides in midfield terms.

Personally I wouldn't swap our midfield for yours...it's a very close race, young or old.

 

[Kramer1]

Really is a stupid thread.

Of course Carlton made the right choice. Kruezer was widely acknowledged as the best available talent, and that is exactly what we have ended up with. Couldn't of hoped for any more in his first year...he far exceeded already high expectations.

Physical attributes are one thing, but this guy seems to have an incredible footy brain. Runs to the right positions, smart in contests, does the little things well like spoils and knock ons. I was also impressed by his courage on a number of occasions. His potential seems fairly limitless at this point in time, and clearly the dolt questioning his attitude doesn't watch a lot of Carlton games.

Cotchin was good this year, and looks set to be the best mid-fielder from the 2007 draft, but Kruezer was easily the correct choice for Carlton

 

[kreuze control]

I am going to ignore your rating of Kevin Sheean's comments for this response, though that alone probably deserves a bigger response.

how very convenient...

As far as young talent goes, you are a bit deluded. Murphy and Gibbs are young and who else? Judd is already a 1/4 century old. Stephens is how old - am open to the answer as I really don't know?

if judd is 1/4 of a century old, then cotchin is 1/5 of a century old. so what? both are young enough to have big impacts on our next premierships.

Others have used Collingwood etc, as an example, I will use Richmond.
Foley, Cotchin and Deledio are three you MAY know of. There are plenty of others who have potential as well which I will not confuse you with.p

you did not have cotchin at the time you chose him and needed to build on just 2 good midfield prospects. you call me deluded, but i bet you believe that some of the players you were too embarrassed to mention such as connors, edwards, polo, tambling and white will all turn out star midfielders.

i'm not saying none of them will, i think tambling could have his break-out year while i like the look of polo but you should count yourself lucky if 2 of them make it in the afl.

Foley almost AA and a top extractor.
Cotchin one of the most exciting young talents I have ever seen.
Deledio a top player (AA quality) and still getting better in leaps and bounds.

i never doubted the quality of those three. all three will be (and 2 already are) star midfielders of the game.

I would take Cotchin before, Deledio, Gibbs or Murhphy in a heartbeat. Foley may be ever so slightly below those, but still a gun who can really shape a game.

i respect your opinion. however i would take them in this order: 1-gibbs, 2-deledio, 3-cotchin, 4-murphy, 5-foley.

But the real point here is to show how close the 'young talent' is between our sides in midfield terms.

Personally I wouldn't swap our midfield for yours...it's a very close race, young or old.

again, that's your opinion and you are entitled to that. but at a guess, i think 80% of neutral supporters would rather ours. not that that counts for anything, as time will tell all and anything can happen.

 

[AGRESSION]

Hypothetically,

If Carlton had already been in talks ( behind closed doors ) with Warnock pre- 2007 National Draft. And it had been determined that at the end 0f 2008 he would become a Blue.

Would you have still taken Kreuzer ?

I think NOT.

 

[kreuze control]

Hypothetically,

If Carlton had already been in talks ( behind closed doors ) with Warnock pre- 2007 National Draft. And it had been determined that at the end 0f 2008 he would become a Blue.

Would you have still taken Kreuzer ?

I think NOT.

i still would have. i don't believe warnock is all that he is hyped up to be and it would not surprise me one bit if he turns out a flop. and even if he does turn out a gun, kreuzer could just as easily become a centre half forward, a full forward even a wingman and pinch hit in the ruck and around the ground that's the beauty of him.

 

[AGRESSION]

i still would have. i don't believe warnock is all that he is hyped up to be and it would not surprise me one bit if he turns out a flop. and even if he does turn out a gun, kreuzer could just as easily become a centre half forward, a full forward even a wingman and pinch hit in the ruck and around the ground that's the beauty of him.

Yeh Right.

 

[kreuze control]

Yeh Right.

Fine, believe whatever you want to believe but i just cannot understand why you feel so insecure about carlton still not choosing cotchin over kreuzer. why does it mean so much to you? it's not as if you have stuffed up yet another draft pick, why is it so hard for you to accept that carlton would still choose kreuzer? it doesn't make cotchin any less of a player.