Twiggy sticks a great big log up Rudd

[Dawson]

Hardly irrational...I'm in the game and this shit is real. This is happening.

20% down, Hang Seng

Rubbish you work at Bunnings

 

[medusala]

I take your comment as an admission that decreased tax for Australian business is a good thing and thus you now support the tax on mining super profits in order to assist the non mining sector with reduced tax, improved infrastructure and increased national savings and investment.

Once again you demonstrate you have no idea.

There is every reason to believe increased taxes on mining will decrease revenue compared to what it would otherwise have been.

There is every reason to believe this will not be offset by a 2% (Treasury argued for 5%) cut in corporate tax particularly when a new 3% payroll tax is added on top.

How much is raised from the new tax? How much is offset by the reduction (net after payroll tax)?

It is a net large tax rise on business across the economy.

That this is bad policy is indeed common sense.

Pity the Pavlovian cheerleaders can not comprehend this.

 

[Financialpanther]

Once again you demonstrate you have no idea.

There is every reason to believe increased taxes on mining will decrease revenue compared to what it would otherwise have been.

There is every reason to believe this will not be offset by a 2% (Treasury argued for 5%) cut in corporate tax particularly when a new 3% payroll tax is added on top.

How much is raised from the new tax? How much is offset by the reduction (net after payroll tax)?

It is a net large tax rise on business across the economy.

That this is bad policy is indeed common sense.

Pity the Pavlovian cheerleaders can not comprehend this.

Geez - its not like he can't differentiate a risk free rate from WACC...........

 

[Womble]

You're call twiggy - the resources aren't going anywhere until someone mines them though, we'll just wait

 

[Clay Davis]

Clay, a lot of the large instos are fairly indinscriminate. If they decide to lighten their exposure to Australia, for whatever reason on a particular day, or over a number of days, they sell the entire basket of stocks; not just BHP/ Rio. Its all index weighted.

I imagine they might. But I also imagine they might return quite quickly. And that they'd also ditch countries like Australia because of other worries.

Pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is sheer lunacy when world events are so much larger.

As my homies say - keep it real.

 

[morgoth]

I imagine they might. But I also imagine they might return quite quickly. And that they'd also ditch countries like Australia because of other worries.

Pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is sheer lunacy when world events are so much larger.

As my homies say - keep it real.

Tax is paying a huge part, ignore it as much as you want but when it finally comes out in the press you will have to eat humble pie.

Rudd and his gang have poured petrol onto the fire, we would have gone down but they have made sure it is worse than it should be and that we will not rebound quickly.

Until the matter of the tax is resolved they will stay away. Foreign investors do not like hearing Govts say their profits belong to the locals.

 

[Financialpanther]

I imagine they might. But I also imagine they might return quite quickly. And that they'd also ditch countries like Australia because of other worries.

Pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is sheer lunacy when world events are so much larger.

As my homies say - keep it real.

Fair to say that pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is akin to pinning the reason for avoiding the recession wholely and solely from government stimulus?

 

[Juddism]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...review-super-tax/story-e6frg9dx-1225868605991



Announcement just in time for Question Time.

What's Kev's next move? Nationalising the banks?

and? no doubt it will be a temporary hold...FMG is too heavily debt funded.

 

[Bodicifer]

I imagine they might. But I also imagine they might return quite quickly. And that they'd also ditch countries like Australia because of other worries.

Pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is sheer lunacy when world events are so much larger.

As my homies say - keep it real.[/quote]



If you keep your head up there for so long you'll eventually suffocate ! You have got no idea. The flood of money out of our market is mainly due to the mining tax announcement. How stupid/ignorant/full of yourself do you have to be not to realise that??? That's the real world.

 

[Bodicifer]

Rubbish you work at Bunnings

Ah ha ha ha... Centrelink pay day today for you today...don't buy too many packs of smokes and cans of bourbon!!!

 

[Clay Davis]

Fair to say that pinning the movements of the ASX or AUD on a specific tax is akin to pinning the reason for avoiding the recession wholely and solely from government stimulus?

Yep. I agree with that.

But you can't criticise this government's economic record given we're one of the few major countries that didn't have a recession.

 

[Clay Davis]

Tax is paying a huge part, ignore it as much as you want but when it finally comes out in the press you will have to eat humble pie.

Nah, I'll have my own opinions, thanks. I don't believe everything I read in the papers.

Rudd and his gang have poured petrol onto the fire, we would have gone down but they have made sure it is worse than it should be and that we will not rebound quickly.

Wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttttttttttttt? So effectively I'm right, just more firebrand rhetoric from you.

Until the matter of the tax is resolved they will stay away. Foreign investors do not like hearing Govts say their profits belong to the locals.

Yeah, nah. They're actually giving more profits back to the companies. The company tax is being reduced. Geddit?

I reckon those apparatchiks like Dawson are complete morons, but I think they're right when they say you work in a credit union.

 

[Clay Davis]

Geez - its not like he can't differentiate a risk free rate from WACC...........

Just a quick question, FP - what is the number for WACC for resource cos?

Because on this slide (page 3) it seems the new tax system is only better for mining cos if the rate of return is less than ~10%.

That seems absurdly low to me.

 

[Dawson]

Ah ha ha ha... Centrelink pay day today for you today...don't buy too many packs of smokes and cans of bourbon!!!

Yes, but I admit it.

You just pretend to be in finance

 

[Financialpanther]

Yep. I agree with that.

But you can't criticise this government's economic record given we're one of the few major countries that didn't have a recession.

That wasn't a criticism of government spending - rather pinning their efforts as the panacea that allowed us to avoid recession is incredibly short sighted. The government got extremely lucky in that China were there to support this country and the Reserve Bank dropped the rates as low as they did in such a quick time - this does not make them good nor bad economic managers. This is a criticism of their spending though - their stimulus was ill directed and flawed - we simply did not get enough bang for our buck in their delivery. You want to refute that - fine but its my view and you can have yours The proof of their economic management will be once the world has settled down and the full effects of their policy has filtered through - take away a booming resources industry and we will see whether they are good or bad (either way - this will become apparant sooner rather than later).

 

[Financialpanther]

Just a quick question, FP - what is the number for WACC for resource cos?

Because on this slide (page 3) it seems the new tax system is only better for mining cos if the rate of return is less than ~10%.

That seems absurdly low to me.

Don't operate in that sector - sorry.

 

[Bodicifer]

Yes, but I admit it.

You just pretend to be in finance

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha, pisser....if you only knew...

 

[Oscarman]

Could there be a (possibly) unintended consequence from the tax that the stuff we are digging out of the ground will be dug out at a slower rate, enabling the resources industry to be sustainable for longer?

Of course, I'm assuming there isn't a huge amount of reserves either not found or not being mined yet, as I wouldn't have a clue how much is in the ground waiting to be found and/or dug.

 

[pazza]

All Twiggy is doing is raising the white flag...instead of that, he and his greed driven mates should be saying to the government - stuff your tax, we'll continue to do our business. Better to fight than to run away and be a coward.

 

[King Elvis]

Could there be a (possibly) unintended consequence from the tax that the stuff we are digging out of the ground will be dug out at a slower rate, enabling the resources industry to be sustainable for longer?

Of course, I'm assuming there isn't a huge amount of reserves either not found or not being mined yet, as I wouldn't have a clue how much is in the ground waiting to be found and/or dug.

Depends how long the resource is in demand as well; who knows what could happen in 5-10 years time - perhaps we wont need as much coal?

I'd say the Mining Industry is also pretty filthy about there being absolutely no consultation with them before this was announced.

 

[Oscarman]

Depends how long the resource is in demand as well; who knows what could happen in 5-10 years time - perhaps we wont need as much coal?

Did Ken Henry say that we were is a period of super demand that would last 50 years and that Government $$$ etc should be focused on the areas where resources are extracted, processed etc?

I'd say the Mining Industry is also pretty filthy about there being absolutely no consultation with them before this was announced.

Agree with this - no doubt Rudd saw the $$$$ to be gouged would help get the deficit wiped out quicker and said 'show me the money'.

 

[Bodicifer]

The delivery of this thing is one of the biggest political debacles our investment markets have seen for a long time. KRudd has ZERO idea.

 

[fairdinkum]

Depends how long the resource is in demand as well; who knows what could happen in 5-10 years time - perhaps we wont need as much coal?

Wouldn't count on it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9947668

China will build 500 coal-fired power plants in the next decade, at the rate of almost one a week. This massive appetite for coal means equally huge greenhouse gas emissions.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9947668

 

[Eagle87]

All Twiggy is doing is raising the white flag...instead of that, he and his greed driven mates should be saying to the government - stuff your tax, we'll continue to do our business. Better to fight than to run away and be a coward.

Huh??

So if a potential project is now either unfundable or likely marginal because of the new tax regime, they should just roll the dice with a few billion dollars to prove their courage?

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Huh??

So if a potential project is now either unfundable or likely marginal because of the new tax regime, they should just roll the dice with a few billion dollars to prove their courage?

Wouldnt be because of a falling price for commodities across the board ?

The AUD rides the commodity market more than any. AUD is a currency which punches well above its weight, but sits in the middle ground. Big enough to take strategic interests in, but small enough to be pushed around.

We are seeing this right now