Twiggy sticks a great big log up Rudd

[Mayneman]

The AUD is a commodity dollar.

The Mining sector is what drives our economy.

The implications of this new tax - an increase in sovreign risk, combined with lower profit margins and falling commodoty prices is smashing the Aussie dollar.

To simply sit back and say the the RSPT is not having an effect on our market and dollar is ridiculous.

Kevin Rudd has concreted the boots of our economy.

The man is a moron.

All hail the Monk.

 

[Eagle87]

Wouldnt be because of a falling price for commodities across the board ?

The AUD rides the commodity market more than any. AUD is a currency which punches well above its weight, but sits in the middle ground. Big enough to take strategic interests in, but small enough to be pushed around.

We are seeing this right now

Huh?

Did you read the post I was responding to?

Nothing to do with AUD.

 

[Dry Rot]

You get abusive when you don't understand. Foreign investors are selling their holdings of Australian shares (not just mining shares, all shares) because they do not want their capital/returns put at risk of further govt tax grabs. It is called soverign/politcal risk and if you don't believe it is happening you are living in la la land.

I doubt you know any insto brokers but if by some fluke you do, go ask them.

I have spoken with 2 seperate brokers today and they both have told me that foreign investors, the Yanks in particular are pulling out of Australia for this particular reason.

Seen similar research in the last couple of days from a few brokers.

For the clueless folk here, these are private reports for major institutional and overseas investors, not some mining company PR or bile aimed at voters and the govt.

They are giving their private investment analysis and advice, not public mouthpieces for the Libs trying for political gain.

 

[Dry Rot]

All Twiggy is doing is raising the white flag...instead of that, he and his greed driven mates should be saying to the government - stuff your tax, we'll continue to do our business. Better to fight than to run away and be a coward.

Huh??

So if a potential project is now either unfundable or likely marginal because of the new tax regime, they should just roll the dice with a few billion dollars to prove their courage?

Wouldnt be because of a falling price for commodities across the board ?

The AUD rides the commodity market more than any. AUD is a currency which punches well above its weight, but sits in the middle ground. Big enough to take strategic interests in, but small enough to be pushed around.

We are seeing this right now

Huh?

Did you read the post I was responding to?

Nothing to do with AUD.

Agreed. How the third post above could follow the first two is quite bizarre.

 

[Grin]

The AUD is a commodity dollar.

The Mining sector is what drives our economy.

The implications of this new tax - an increase in sovreign risk, combined with lower profit margins and falling commodoty prices is smashing the Aussie dollar.

To simply sit back and say the the RSPT is not having an effect on our market and dollar is ridiculous.

Kevin Rudd has concreted the boots of our economy.

The man is a moron.

All hail the Monk.

So a tax cut for business is bad

A high Ausie dollar is good (presumably because it destroys the non mining sector)

Spending on infrastructure is bad

Paying down national debt is bad

National savings are bad.

I think you people who want to push Liberal party propaganda need to argue why a proposed tax for mining forces down the value of Ausie shares but that reducing tax on all other business has no effect.

If the people commenting on this thread are the economic gurus they claim to be, then they are a great argument for increased regulation. These fools need to be kept on a very tight leash. They are the very same people who drove the world into recession with utterly stupid, senseless ideology aimed at ripping off the community for short term profits for their masters. They are arguing a dogma and seem to have NFI about finance. They constantly get caught contradicting themselves.

Pathetic and mindless stuff by the same people who though Costello was a genius for selling off our gold stocks at bargain basement prices.

Please explain why tax cuts for business, reduced national debt, increased private savings and investment and spending on infrastructure are such bad things for the economy or stop pretending to be anything other than utterly ignorant of all things financial.

They're like little children who will deny themselves long term gain for instant gratification. If they had half a brain they would be looking at picking up bargains on the stock market as I am. I'm glad you financial experts are dumb arses. It makes it really easy for those of us who have no financial training to do well out of the market at the expense of your clients.

 

[pazza]

So a tax cut for business is bad

A high Ausie dollar is good (presumably because it destroys the non mining sector)

Spending on infrastructure is bad

Paying down national debt is bad

National savings are bad.

I think you people who want to push Liberal party propaganda need to argue why a proposed tax for mining forces down the value of Ausie shares but that reducing tax on all other business has no effect.

If the people commenting on this thread are the economic gurus they claim to be, then they are a great argument for increased regulation. These fools need to be kept on a very tight leash. They are the very same people who drove the world into recession with utterly stupid, senseless ideology aimed at ripping off the community for short term profits for their masters. They are arguing a dogma and seem to have NFI about finance. They constantly get caught contradicting themselves.

Pathetic and mindless stuff by the same people who though Costello was a genius for selling off our gold stocks at bargain basement prices.

Please explain why tax cuts for business, reduced national debt, increased private savings and investment and spending on infrastructure are such bad things for the economy or stop pretending to be anything other than utterly ignorant of all things financial.

They're like little children who will deny themselves long term gain for instant gratification. If they had half a brain they would be looking at picking up bargains on the stock market as I am. I'm glad you financial experts are dumb arses. It makes it really easy for those of us who have no financial training to do well out of the market at the expense of your clients.

Agreed...this place is full of Gordon Gecko-types.

 

[bullish23]

Foreign investors are selling their holdings of Australian shares (not just mining shares, all shares) because they do not want their capital/returns put at risk of further govt tax grabs. It is called soverign/politcal risk and if you don't believe it is happening you are living in la la land.

Sovereign risk is at play but not because the Austrailan government is suddenly going to clamp on a super profit's tax to all and sundry. You would have a lot more credibility if you stopped being so melodramatic.

It's a flight to safety across all markets, not because of some proposed mining tax (which replaces royalties) in the world's ditch. As The Economist stated this week, if markets did not cool presently, it would be even more surprising.

I can tell you for certain that our trading floors in London have much bigger concerns then the Australian government's proposed mining tax.

 

[Eagle87]

Agreed...this place is full of Gordon Gecko-types.

So you going to respond to my question on your twiggy post or just expose more of your inner clown by being a fanboi of the fanbois?

 

[Bodicifer]

So a tax cut for business is bad

A high Ausie dollar is good (presumably because it destroys the non mining sector)

Spending on infrastructure is bad

Paying down national debt is bad

National savings are bad.

I think you people who want to push Liberal party propaganda need to argue why a proposed tax for mining forces down the value of Ausie shares but that reducing tax on all other business has no effect.

If the people commenting on this thread are the economic gurus they claim to be, then they are a great argument for increased regulation. These fools need to be kept on a very tight leash. They are the very same people who drove the world into recession with utterly stupid, senseless ideology aimed at ripping off the community for short term profits for their masters. They are arguing a dogma and seem to have NFI about finance. They constantly get caught contradicting themselves.

Pathetic and mindless stuff by the same people who though Costello was a genius for selling off our gold stocks at bargain basement prices.

Please explain why tax cuts for business, reduced national debt, increased private savings and investment and spending on infrastructure are such bad things for the economy or stop pretending to be anything other than utterly ignorant of all things financial.

They're like little children who will deny themselves long term gain for instant gratification. If they had half a brain they would be looking at picking up bargains on the stock market as I am. I'm glad you financial experts are dumb arses. It makes it really easy for those of us who have no financial training to do well out of the market at the expense of your clients.

You've got no idea! Obviously you can type which makes that Arts degree come in handy but other than that, you really have no idea.

Firstly, why are we now in so much debt and how much of that debt has been pissed up against the wall by this 'brilliant' Labor government?

Secondly, how does a 2% decrease in the company tax of non-mining companies give you are warm and fuzzy feeling about this governments economic management when the mining sector, which has been the recession saviour of the country, is going to be paying 58% company tax?

Thirdly, why do you think so much money is now flooding back offshore from AUD? Insto's don't want to take on the new political risk that we have here in Oz because of your wonderful back flipping, money wasting government.

Fourthly, your genius of picking up bargains on the stock market. You were obivously shorting at 5,000, closed out last night and want to use the cash to pick up bargains today??? What a w***er!!! Your $5,000 BHP purchase today aint going to shake the markets!!!

 

[1jasonoz]

The AUD is a commodity dollar.

The Mining sector is what drives our economy.
The implications of this new tax - an increase in sovreign risk, combined with lower profit margins and falling commodoty prices is smashing the Aussie dollar.

To simply sit back and say the the RSPT is not having an effect on our market and dollar is ridiculous.

Kevin Rudd has concreted the boots of our economy.

The man is a moron.

All hail the Monk.

This was denied by Liberal supporters during Howard time in power.

 

[1jasonoz]

You've got no idea! Obviously you can type which makes that Arts degree come in handy but other than that, you really have no idea.

Firstly, why are we now in so much debt and how much of that debt has been pissed up against the wall by this 'brilliant' Labor government?

Secondly, how does a 2% decrease in the company tax of non-mining companies give you are warm and fuzzy feeling about this governments economic management when the mining sector, which has been the recession saviour of the country, is going to be paying 58% company tax?

Thirdly, why do you think so much money is now flooding back offshore from AUD? Insto's don't want to take on the new political risk that we have here in Oz because of your wonderful back flipping, money wasting government.

Fourthly, your genius of picking up bargains on the stock market. You were obivously shorting at 5,000, closed out last night and want to use the cash to pick up bargains today??? What a w***er!!! Your $5,000 BHP purchase today aint going to shake the markets!!!

Firstly, why are we now in so much debt and how much of that debt has been pissed up against the wall by this 'brilliant' Labor government?

What do you mean by "so much debt"?

Is this so much debt related to recurrent spending policies announced by the previous government, and how much is as a result of this government?

Secondly, how does a 2% decrease in the company tax of non-mining companies give you are warm and fuzzy feeling about this governments economic management when the mining sector, which has been the recession saviour of the country, is going to be paying 58% company tax?

1. Mining was not the sole saviour of the economy, it was one of 4 factors that saved the economy.

2. What would be the economic effect on the economy of a 2% cut in the company tax rate?

3. What will be the economic effect of an increase in the SGC of 3%?

4. What will be the economic effect of the 50% cut to savings as proposed by the Henry review?

4. When will this 58% tax rate you keep saying the mining sector will now be facing cut in?

Thirdly, why do you think so much money is now flooding back offshore from AUD? Insto's don't want to take on the new political risk that we have here in Oz because of your wonderful back flipping, money wasting government.

You may not be aware of world events re Greece and dodgy finance deals.

 

[pazza]

Huh??

So if a potential project is now either unfundable or likely marginal because of the new tax regime, they should just roll the dice with a few billion dollars to prove their courage?

Absolutely.

They know the stuff is in the ground...they know it is needed. Don't fear the tax - mine more and forgo some of the exorbitant salaries instead.

 

[Bodicifer]

What do you mean by "so much debt"?

Is this so much debt related to recurrent spending policies announced by the previous government, and how much is as a result of this government?



1. Mining was not the sole saviour of the economy, it was one of 4 factors that saved the economy.

2. What would be the economic effect on the economy of a 2% cut in the company tax rate?

3. What will be the economic effect of an increase in the SGC of 3%?

4. What will be the economic effect of the 50% cut to savings as proposed by the Henry review?

4. When will this 58% tax rate you keep saying the mining sector will now be facing cut in?



You may not be aware of world events re Greece and dodgy finance deals.

Debt - Let's give $900 to everyone, including dead people and those living overseas. Let's waste $$$$$$ on an ETS that we NEED to have to survive apparently. Let's cost the nation some lives and $$$$$$ with dodgy insulation. Let's pay $2,200 per roof to be checked, not fixed, just checked.

1. Mining was a huge factor and you know it. The good state of the economy that the former government left this ******ed government was also another major factor.
2. A 2% cut in the company tax rate to non-mining companies will have a very small impact. If you were taxed on your income after your expenses and it dropped by 2% would your life change dramatically?
3. An increase in SGC will have a cost to employers or employees now. Yes it will increase super accumulation however, someone has to pay and it aint the government.
4. 2 years time and if you can't work out that it is an effective 58% company tax rate then you need to get a new calculator.

Anybody who does not think that this tax announcement has had a major impact on the ASX and the AUD needs their heads read. Yes there are other associated problems BUT, this is a f*ck up of monumental proportions by the Labor government.

 

[BarryG]

I have been thinking lately if the government is to up the tax on what they consider excess rofits, would it not be a good idea to use this time to spend as much as you can within reason on exploration and the likes. Anything that you planned to do that can be used as an expense and reduce the companies profit. Every dollar spent now when the tax is 40% is a saving on tax especially if it drops back to 30%.

If they brought forawrd this type of spending, every say every $100,000 spent reduces the profit they make by $100,000 and reduces the tax bill by $40,000 (@ 40%) instead of $30,000 as it would be now.

Just dont dig any more of it up than already is being done.

Is this an option??

 

[1jasonoz]

Debt - Let's give $900 to everyone, including dead people and those living overseas. Let's waste $$$$$$ on an ETS that we NEED to have to survive apparently. Let's cost the nation some lives and $$$$$$ with dodgy insulation. Let's pay $2,200 per roof to be checked, not fixed, just checked.

1. Mining was a huge factor and you know it. The good state of the economy that the former government left this ******ed government was also another major factor.
2. A 2% cut in the company tax rate to non-mining companies will have a very small impact. If you were taxed on your income after your expenses and it dropped by 2% would your life change dramatically?
3. An increase in SGC will have a cost to employers or employees now. Yes it will increase super accumulation however, someone has to pay and it aint the government.
4. 2 years time and if you can't work out that it is an effective 58% company tax rate then you need to get a new calculator.

Anybody who does not think that this tax announcement has had a major impact on the ASX and the AUD needs their heads read. Yes there are other associated problems BUT, this is a f*ck up of monumental proportions by the Labor government.

Debt - Let's give $900 to everyone, including dead people and those living overseas. Let's waste $$$$$$ on an ETS that we NEED to have to survive apparently. Let's cost the nation some lives and $$$$$$ with dodgy insulation. Let's pay $2,200 per roof to be checked, not fixed, just checked.

1. Tony Abbott has stated he supported the sending of cash in the form of $900 to taxpayers;

2. Once again how much of this debt is related to recurrent spending policies announced by the previous government, and how much is as a result of this government?

3. You are blaming the government for the deaths of employees in the private sector-if you do then why are private sector employers currently being charged for these deaths rather than the government?

1. Mining was a huge factor and you know it. The good state of the economy that the former government left this ******ed government was also another major factor.

I know there were 4 factors identified by Treasury and the RBA as helping the ecomomy, mining was one what were the other 3?

A 2% cut in the company tax rate to non-mining companies will have a very small impact.

1. Do you have any modelling on the economic effect of a 2% reduction in the company tax rate?

If you were taxed on your income after your expenses and it dropped by 2% would your life change dramatically?

See above, and see the various models on rolling in workplace deducyions which would result in the funding of a 2% reduction in income tax rates for a start.

An increase in SGC will have a cost to employers or employees now. Yes it will increase super accumulation however, someone has to pay and it aint the government.

So what will the ecomomic effect be on the economy through an increase of 3% of the SGC?

2 years time and if you can't work out that it is an effective 58% company tax rate then you need to get a new calculator.

Maybe i will have to a little clearer, at what rate of return will this 58% tax rate you keep talking about cut in at, and what are the other items involved with the proposal?

 

[Relativity]

Absolutely.

They know the stuff is in the ground...they know it is needed. Don't fear the tax - mine more and forgo some of the exorbitant salaries instead.

This works on the premise that Australia has a monopoly on resources which is not the case. The market can just as easily purchase their minerals from South America/Africa.

 

[Dawson]

This works on the premise that Australia has a monopoly on resources which is not the case. The market can just as easily purchase their minerals from South America/Africa.

Then why don't they?

 

[Eagle87]

Then why don't they?

Because the investment in mines has been greater here because of a range of factors.

Cost (which includes tax) is a key factor. We now make our market less attractive and conversely others more attractive. Investments in future mining operations are never guaranteed and we have just made all miners go back and reconsider Africa, South America, Asia and Canada.

But hey, in the short term it shouldn't hurt Australia much, and, in the short term it makes for some nice election slogans for Labor (balanced budgets and the like) and as we all know, you and the ALP are all about the short term

 

[Eagle87]

Absolutely.

They know the stuff is in the ground...they know it is needed. Don't fear the tax - mine more and forgo some of the exorbitant salaries instead.

Good god

Are you an idiot or a troll?

For clarity, they are the only 2 options that explain your post.

 

[GuruJane]

Then why don't they?

Er, possibly because until just three weeks ago there was not a 40% super tax on mining companies profits, Dawson?

Also possibly because until just three weeks ago there had not been a single government in Australia that had whipped up a demonisation of foreign investment and resource companies since 1975 - 35 years ago?

 

[Eagle87]

Er, possibly because until just three weeks ago there was not a 40% super tax on mining companies profits, Dawson?

Also possibly because until just three weeks ago there had not been a single government in Australia that had whipped up a demonisation of resource companies since 1975 - 25 years ago?

Hi Jane - 35 years maybe? (2010 - 1975)

 

[GuruJane]

Hi Jane - 35 years maybe? (2010 - 1975)

Ta. These claret-ridden braincells!

In defence of some of the ignorants posting here, 35 years ago is the ancient world before-you-were-born.

But Kevin, Wayne, Julia and Lindsay do not have that excuse.

 

[Dawson]

Er, possibly because until just three weeks ago there was not a 40% super tax on mining companies profits, Dawson?

Also possibly because until just three weeks ago there had not been a single government in Australia that had whipped up a demonisation of foreign investment and resource companies since 1975 - 35 years ago?

The fact is, its all just piss and wind from the Miners.
Piss and wind Jane, you know about that, right?

 

[Eagle87]

The fact is, its all just piss and wind from the Miners.
Piss and wind Jane, you know about that, right?

The FACT is, it isn't. Any open minded analysis of remotely knowledgeable media in Australia or overseas would show that.

Fortunately for you Dawson the majority of voters have NFI

 

[nylexbandit]

The FACT is, it isn't. Any open minded analysis of remotely knowledgeable media in Australia or overseas would show that.

Fortunately for you Dawson the majority of voters have NFI

Eagle, quick question for you. In the long run what happens to the price of a finite resource?

Will a potential small drop (or even larger) in investment now lead to much greater returns in future when Canada and SA have less resources to fill demand? Do you think Australia can sustain the drop in investment in the short run?