Uphill Skiers - who has climbed the biggest mountain?

[Wolfgang West]

LRT.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Cox also "only" had 8 contested marks that night, not a dozen like you suggested, so it still makes you wrong.

haha you're picking me up on some embellishment on BF. Thanks

 

[Masqualero]

Tory Dickson seems to become a deadeye in finals.

 

[John Who]

Thread isn’t complete without a Shane Ellen mention. Was an obscure part of the crows side but became integral to the GF win.

Ellen was the first example in the original post.

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Jack Graham in the Grand Final, in game number #5 after doing very little in the finals but tackle, tags Rory Sloane out of the game after half time, kicks 3 goals and writes a name for himself in Richmond folklore

Would that be Graham, Jack Graham, that is?

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

Ricky Henderson. Delisted by the crows and top 3 b&f at the hawks.

Is top 3 in the Hawks B&F really that hard these days though?

 

[PerthBoy86]

This sounds more like outstanding finals performances in an otherwise unremarkable career.

When I think 'uphill skiier' I think someone who's struggled for a long time with a lot of adversity to show their grit, determination and talent. I think a fair few players fit under that category. Some inspiring stories.

 

[Reality Check!]

This sounds more like outstanding finals performances in an otherwise unremarkable career.

When I think 'uphill skiier' I think someone who's struggled for a long time with a lot of adversity to show their grit, determination and talent. I think a fair few players fit under that category. Some inspiring stories.

This guy gets it.

James Hird - a classic example. Injured several times, had to have his face peeled off for surgery after his face was caved in. Kept on going. But I await the plebocratic masses to respond to this post with "YUH DRUGS" because they cannot comprehend the fact that this guy might well have been the toughest player in the game.

 

[PerthBoy86]

This guy gets it.

James Hird - a classic example. Injured several times, had to have his face peeled off for surgery after his face was caved in. Kept on going. But I await the plebocratic masses to respond to this post with "YUH DRUGS" because they cannot comprehend the fact that this guy might well have been the toughest player in the game.

Oh an out and out champion and an inspiring leader, could lift his team like very few others could. The 90s and 00s had some tremendous captains/leaders. Hated the Bombers in the 90s, but had to give Hirdy respect.

 

[craffles]

This sounds more like outstanding finals performances in an otherwise unremarkable career.

When I think 'uphill skiier' I think someone who's struggled for a long time with a lot of adversity to show their grit, determination and talent. I think a fair few players fit under that category. Some inspiring stories.

Agree. A good recent example is the turnaround by Chris Mayne. On the scrap heap at Collingwood, intense media scrutiny about the size and duration of his contract his back was pressed so hard against the wall it’s a surprise he didn’t have cracked ribs.

Fought back, took on a new role and re-established himself as a key part of a nearly premiership winning side.

Other players that spring to mind are the mature age guys who just have to fight to get on a list and prove themselves. Your Michael Barlow, Sam Mitchell, Matt Priddis type operators

 

[PerthBoy86]

Agree. A good recent example is the turnaround by Chris Mayne. On the scrap heap at Collingwood, intense media scrutiny about the size and duration of his contract his back was pressed so hard against the wall it’s a surprise he didn’t have cracked ribs.

Fought back, took on a new role and re-established himself as a key part of a nearly premiership winning side.

Other players that spring to mind are the mature age guys who just have to fight to get on a list and prove themselves. Your Michael Barlow, Sam Mitchell, Matt Priddis type operators

Bit like Paul Medhurst back in the day. Always great to see players get a second shot at another club.

 

[craffles]

Bit like Paul Medhurst back in the day. Always great to see players get a second shot at another club.

I think Mayne was travelling pretty well at Freo but not well enough to justify the contract the pies gave him but he turned to absolute shit in his first year at Collingwood. Credit it to him he fought back.

 

[PerthBoy86]

I think Mayne was travelling pretty well at Freo but not well enough to justify the contract the pies gave him but he turned to absolute s**t in his first year at Collingwood. Credit it to him he fought back.

Yeah he kinda disappeared and has almost returned from the ashes.

 

[ioppolo]

Doesn't really fit this thread, but in round 22 2016 Naitanui injures himself against Hawthorn. The following week we travel to Adelaide who sport a decent at the time Sam Jacobs. We bring in Jonathon Giles. We need to win to have a home final and a chance at top 4.

Big Jono pulls out a Naitanui-esque first half clunking marks, kicking goals, and destroying Sam Jacobs. He would never play this well ever again.

 

[Testekill]

Tory Dickson seems to become a deadeye in finals.

He's always been one.

 

[Masqualero]

He's always been one.

He went to another level in that finals series.

 

[btdg]

I always thought a downhill skier was someone who dominated in blowout wins, and went missing in losses/close games.

An uphill skier would be the opposite - someone who tends to fade out in big wins or against lower teams, but plays best in losses or against the top teams.

I’d nominate Patrick Cripps for this category, particularly 2018 version who polled Brownlow votes 9x in 20 losses. As a contrast, last year’s winner Tom Mitchell polled 2x in 7 losses, while Steele Sidebottom (the other player ahead of Cripps) did not poll any votes in losses. That’s not a criticism of either player - it’s just bloody hard to poll votes in losses.

In 2019 Cripps averaged 28 disposals per game overall. Against the top 4 teams he averaged 37.5 disposals in 5 matches (1 win). Against the bottom 5 teams he averaged 27.5 disposals in 6 matches (3 wins). That’s pretty clear ‘uphill skiing’.

Weirdly, Cripps worst games this year came against the bottom half of the top 8 (20.5 disposals in a 1-4 record, with 37 disposals in our win and an average of 17.5 touches in losses). A mid year injury affected a couple of those games but there is a range where he seems to struggle for motivation (teams who aren’t elite, but who are clearly better than 2019 Carlton) while he saves his efforts for the top 4 and in winnable games

 

[Ricmel]

Snake Baker.

In 106 games kicked 126 goals. In the 3 Grand Finals he played he kicked 15 ( 6, 6, 3) including taking about 3 marks of the year in 78 GF where he kicked 6. Kicked 6 of North's 9 goals in the 77 draw to keep Roos in it. Never kicked over 5 goals outside a GF.

 

[Golden_6]

I think Liam Picken signifies a lot of this.

Overlooked as a father son for the Pies and then from every other club for years. Practically had to get Williamstown to beg and offer up some of his rookie salary so the Dogs will take him.

He was a hard nosed unremarkable player. A tagger or a back pocket with no real stand out attributes, just a lot of determination.

Beveridge arrives and turns him into a dangerous half forward. It eventually culminates with Picken being a key member of the Bulldogs finals side and a stand out performer on grand final day.

 

[HairyO]

Nathan Jones carried an entire football club on his shoulders for a decade without even once lowering them and giving up on a game.

That takes supreme mental strength.

Brilliant footballer too.

 

[Scotland]

He's always been one.

181.61 @ 74.8%.

Only current player above 70% is Ben McEvoy who has 84 goals in 206 games and rarely plays forward.

When Dickson retires clubs will be mad not to sign him up as a goalkicking coach.

 

[HairyO]

I’d nominate Patrick Cripps for this category, particularly 2018 version who polled Brownlow votes 9x in 20 losses. As a contrast, last year’s winner Tom Mitchell polled 2x in 7 losses, while Steele Sidebottom (the other player ahead of Cripps) did not poll any votes in losses. That’s not a criticism of either player - it’s just bloody hard to poll votes in losses.

Its an interesting one. When we win, unless its by 10+ goals there is almost always an opposition player (or even 2) who get votes. When we lose, regardless of the amount, we almost never get a player to sneak some votes.

Whether mindset of umpires, or a sign that we are a fairly balanced team with few stand-outs, its always intrigued me.

 

[Scotland]

I reckon 'won't play in enough wins' doesn't really apply to the Brownlow any more. Cripps, Fyfe, Steven, Beams all polled strongly last year. Tom Mitchell got 3 more votes in a top 4 side than he did the year before in an ordinary one. To have the best chance of winning you need to be the standout mid in any team. The main thing holding Fyfe back is that he never seems to play all 22 games. Fyfe was BOG against Richmond last year and his team was out of the game by quarter time. Richmond were pretty even across the board and no other Freo player except Neale was even close to the best players on the ground.

Would not surprise me at all to see Dangerfield, Kelly, Ablett (probably not Selwood) all get 10-20 votes this year and Cripps or Fyfe end up with 25. Neale also has been great in a top 2 team and has stood out more than their next best mids.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Its an interesting one. When we win, unless its by 10+ goals there is almost always an opposition player (or even 2) who get votes. When we lose, regardless of the amount, we almost never get a player to sneak some votes.

Whether mindset of umpires, or a sign that we are a fairly balanced team with few stand-outs, its always intrigued me.

A rough ordinal measure, 2014-18 (higher 'voting bias' = bias against):

Club	W	Opp Votes	Opp V/W	Rank	L	Votes	V/L	Rank	Voting bias​
Adel	67	60	0.90	7th	41	45	1.10	7th	14​
Bris	24	30	1.25	16th	86	75	0.87	13th	29​
Carl	26	24	0.92	8th	83	92	1.11	6th	14​
Coll	54	46	0.85	5th	55	77	1.40	1st	6​
Ess	45	48	1.07	12th	64	55	0.86	15th	27​
Frem	53	40	0.75	3rd	57	61	1.07	8th	11​
Geel	73	80	1.10	13th	34	35	1.03	10th	23​
G.C.	30	24	0.80	4th	79	57	0.72	18th	22​
GWS	60	53	0.88	6th	47	41	0.87	12th	18​
Haw	75	87	1.16	14th	34	36	1.06	9th	23​
Melb	47	34	0.72	1st	63	74	1.17	3rd	4​
N.M.	57	77	1.35	18th	53	42	0.79	17th	35​
P.A.	62	63	1.02	10th	48	56	1.17	4th	14​
Rich	68	82	1.21	15th	42	47	1.12	5th	20​
St.K	37	37	1.00	11th	71	60	0.85	16th	27​
Syd	78	58	0.74	2nd	32	44	1.38	2nd	4​
WC	71	70	0.99	9th	38	33	0.87	14th	23​
W.B.	55	69	1.25	17th	55	52	0.95	11th	28​

 

[HairyO]

A rough ordinal measure, 2014-18 (higher 'voting bias' = bias against):

Club	W	Opp Votes	Opp V/W	Rank	L	Votes	V/L	Rank	Voting bias​
Adel	67	60	0.90	7th	41	45	1.10	7th	14​
Bris	24	30	1.25	16th	86	75	0.87	13th	29​
Carl	26	24	0.92	8th	83	92	1.11	6th	14​
Coll	54	46	0.85	5th	55	77	1.40	1st	6​
Ess	45	48	1.07	12th	64	55	0.86	15th	27​
Frem	53	40	0.75	3rd	57	61	1.07	8th	11​
Geel	73	80	1.10	13th	34	35	1.03	10th	23​
G.C.	30	24	0.80	4th	79	57	0.72	18th	22​
GWS	60	53	0.88	6th	47	41	0.87	12th	18​
Haw	75	87	1.16	14th	34	36	1.06	9th	23​
Melb	47	34	0.72	1st	63	74	1.17	3rd	4​
N.M.	57	77	1.35	18th	53	42	0.79	17th	35​
P.A.	62	63	1.02	10th	48	56	1.17	4th	14​
Rich	68	82	1.21	15th	42	47	1.12	5th	20​
St.K	37	37	1.00	11th	71	60	0.85	16th	27​
Syd	78	58	0.74	2nd	32	44	1.38	2nd	4​
WC	71	70	0.99	9th	38	33	0.87	14th	23​
W.B.	55	69	1.25	17th	55	52	0.95	11th	28​

That is a whole lot of info !

So to see if I understand, from 2014 we won 75 games and opposition players got 87 votes? To compare, Swans won 78 games and opposition players got 58 votes ? Our other obvious contemporary is Geelong with 73 wins and 80 opposition votes.

And the Roos get shafted the most when it comes to opposition players stealing votes when the Roos win?

Cheers !

And to bring this back to my post above, I suspect Nathan Jones probably got a fair few of the votes when Melbourne would invariably lose.