People say this as it fits their argument and they know nobody is going to call them out on it.
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Fidel Cashflow
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There wouldn't be a team that picks Mills or Daniel in front of 2MP or Moore if they had a chance to draft them today. That's the real guide.
We need someone to write up a comparative list showing the extra picks, list size, salary concessions to copy and paste when required to refute this.
All our concessions ended in 2014 but GWS are still receiving theirs until 2019 or something. That's a fair chunk of an advantage to start with. I think our concessions were more than fair but in retrospect we really stuffed the 2010 draft and ability to draft 16 uncontracted players signing up just eight including spuds or hasbeens like Brown, Fraser, Krakouer, Harris etc.
However, GWS taking the road paved with draft picks just shored up a shitload of draft currency for future use. They would have had to be totally incompetent to fail with what they were given and ended up with by spending their first few years anchored near the bottom of the ladder. I think the AFL has underestimated how good they would be with building a super team so quickly. IMO They'll need to remain at or near the top of the ladder for a good ten years from now to build a core group of supporters to make them self-sustainable. If they only stay up there for say four to five years, the support will drop away and they could be left with crowds of only 5k - 10k again.
One thing I did notice while in Melbourne the past week is that the Giants have a shitload more presence in Victoria than we have. Finals will do that. We are totally irrelevant down there. I saw more rugby league merchandise than Suns merchandise in the Melbourne CBD.
They'll still say it if we have no players left from the initial build.
Wallross
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So, I quickly texed this pdf up. I tried to include a comparison of all of the concessions, and demonstrate that GWS had been treated much more favourably.
There are a couple of things that I wanted to include but couldn't. The first was salary cap dollar per player. Since GWS were given a larger list size, they need a proportional salary cap concession. Obviously, this wasn't proportional, and I want to quantify this. I couldn't find any historical salary cap data for 2011 onwards. Could anyone link me to something that has this?
Secondly, I would like to add citations/references. Can anyone link me to one of the times they seen someone claim that the two expansion clubs were given the same concessions.
Finally, can you guys not link this anywhere else? I put a big draft watermark over it to discourage this. I will release a non-draft version later tonight that you guys can share.
Quality first post
Talking sense and backing it up with facts.............you won't last long around here
Welcome aboard
Wallross
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Thanks for the compliments everyone. Happy to be a part of the community. Here is the final report. Not many changes, just a few grammatical things (and the removal of the DRAFT watermark, of course). I also posted this to the afl subreddit, if anyone is wants to see further discussion over there.
Feel free to share this around, although please don't credit this handle (Wallross). The content, LATEX formatting and parts of my username will burn all my online accounts.
Feel free to share this around, although please don't credit this handle (Wallross). The content, LATEX formatting and parts of my username will burn all my online accounts.
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what will the rest of us do now you are here with real facts and analysis
, many of us only survive on rumour, opinion and hearsay............ never let a good story be spoiled by fact. Actually congrats and thanks, this is a pretty serious issue that will become fact in the future if we don't become more proactive about putting forward the differences between the two teams concessions from the clubs inceptions
Wallross
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I won't pretend this is real analysis. I just copied Wikipedia and calculated the draft points. The TeX formatting just makes it look a little more scientific than it actually is.
Also, I won't pretend for a second that we needed more. The concessions given to both clubs were quite generous. GWS were given more, but all that means is they should be number 1, and the Suns number 2. Bad injury luck and some mismanagement have widened this gap.
Wow. That looks better written then some of my uni reports! How long did this take you to produce?
The only other thing, and it is hard to quantify, and not technically concession, is that coming in the season after us, the Giants got the best of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts for finishing last, while we only got the 2010 draft. Although we ended up with JOM and Martin from those draft picks we would have had.
The only other thing, and it is hard to quantify, and not technically concession, is that coming in the season after us, the Giants got the best of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 drafts for finishing last, while we only got the 2010 draft. Although we ended up with JOM and Martin from those draft picks we would have had.
Wallross
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It took me the best part of an hour. Then maybe another half hour to edit and revise. The two column TeX formatting makes it look really nice and academic. I recommend LaTeX to everyone, once you switch from Word/whatever, you'll never go back.
I was going to mention that our wooden spoon pick got commuted to pick 4, while GWS' didn't. Must have forgotten to add that.
LynchysMob
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Good work mate. Spread the word.
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Pardon the intrusion but I gotta say, Daniel has been a vital part of our mids this year, and a BOG performance in a final speaks volumes for his abilities under pressure. Wright will be a gun, no question. Would love to have him in the side, but not at the expense of Caleb Daniel. His classy use in traffic and decision making should have placed him top 10 in the draft.
LynchysMob
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You came all the way to our board to say that knowing we'd all disagree? You spas. He's a midfielder, easily replaceable and that's coming from someone who's loved Daniel since his draft year.
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ha, ok. Classy reply. Spas? Would be a walk-up start to your side.
Good luck next year.
Yeah, I'm not sure what Spas means. Surely it's not short for *******? wow that's just.... Anyway moving on.
I thought straight away, you're kidding, Daniel over Wright and it got me thinking from our point of view, do we want Miller over Hogan... We love Miller but let's get real here we are taking Hogan every day of the week and I think if you are honest you got to take Wright over Daniel as much as I know you guys would love him.
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Its a tricky one, Wright is probably more a genuine forward than Boyd at this stage who spends half his time in the ruck, so obviously we would badly need Wright. Would certainly fix most of our forward line issues.
But Caleb is possibly the only player in our side that I have complete faith in with ball-in-hand (in a midfield containing Bont, Libber and Dahlhaus). Just a rolls royce decision maker.
Each to his own I guess, but it is interesting seeing non-dog supporters underrating the little guy.
And I only came here as I have an interest in the Suns being Qld based. Wife is a suns supporter too, though I've tried to convert her. Wouldn't call you guys my 2nd team but if we ever were to fold I'd probably jump on board. I'm also a Rocket Eade fan from way back. Great bloke.
Anyway, probably overstayed my welcome. Hope you guys can push into the 8 next year.
you
you think Lin Jong would come to us and would he be of worth?
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Personally hope he doesn't leave, he's tough as nails and really good overhead mark for his size. Can be a bit reckless with his kicking, he's certainly butchered quite a few forward entries over the last couple of years, but is still young and developing. At the moment he is depth for us, but has certainly looked comfortable when he has come into our best 22.
Rumoured that we have a 2 year 600k a season deal in front of him for 2 years, but has a 3 year deal from either you guys or Collingwood as well, for possibly slightly more a season?
Definitely of worth, as I said I hope he doesn't leave. Great kid from all reports too.
Absolutely he's a gun future B&F potentially for sure. The wife's family are WB people so l watch them a lot. I think the point he was making is that key position players especially forwards are becoming a lot harder to get right/find at draft time. Would do a straight swap for O'meara in a heartbeat.
600k a year for a fringe 15-25 player in a full side
Holly smokes.
Tom lynch is only on 800k
Tom Mitchell is rumoured to be worth 600 I know which I'd rather.
vide0n
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Think it is fair to say Jong is not being offered quite as much..
