Vent thread vs pies

[lioninthesand]

Young list.. sometimes it's going to take a hammering... sometimes it's not..The problem's on whether we can execute a game plan when our basic skills aren't there or just not happening...

As you would know as the Dees have had their fair share of misery.. On the upside it has resulted in getting some very nice draft picks...We may well be mimicking that..

Hi everyone, as you can tell I don't post here much but I have been supporting the Bears-Lions from a distance since 1990 and I'm beginning to think I can't handle it any more.

Today I got the "Leaders' Digest" email (like many here did too, I expect), this time apparently written by Tom Rockliff. Maybe he wrote it all himself, maybe it was ghost-written, or maybe he wrote it and it was "vetted" by the Corp Comms department. To my eye the vernacular of the weekly Leaders' Digest emails is suspiciously consistent, and from my experience with corporate communications I would be surprised if someone in the organisation had not "vetted" it at the very least, but perhaps the leaders actually write the email themselves, I really don't know.

But I was concerned by what I read. I think it speaks volumes about what is going on at the club. Here below I offer my comments on that email: words, phrases, and underlying attitude I would have preferred to read and infer, rather than what was actually written.

What follows is IN NO WAY a criticism of Tom Rockliff himself, I want to make that clear. He's my favourite Lion and I wish him all the best. Here goes:

"We'd gone into last night's match hopeful." I would prefer to read "determined", "confident", "resolute", or "vengeful".

"...we were confident going in we had a game-plan we could match against Collingwood". What about a game-plan which gives you confidence you can beat them.

"Unfortunately we started poorly..." Luck has very little to do with it. We have been starting poorly for years and years and years. Blaming luck is avoiding reality.

"...and never really got a look in..." You want Collingwood to play nice and give you a look in? Nasty Collingwood, not giving you a look in, how mean of them. It's a stock phrase, but to me it reveals an underlying attitude problem.

"It definitely wasn't the result we wanted". Ok, you wanted to win, I understand that. But did you really want it? Really? Because watching the game, it really didn't look like it.

"If you look at the group..." I hate that term "group". You're supposed to be a TEAM for Cliff's sake.

"...energy was down..." what, again? More gastro? What are you talking about? If there's one game in the season etc. etc. I don't need to elaborate, we all know what I'm getting at.

"...the unwillingness to play roles continued last night." This is perhaps the most telling clause in the whole text. What is he saying here? Does it suggest the players are fed up with being played out of position? Or that they just aren't buying in to the structures? Or they don't have respect for the leaders, or the coaches? The "unwillingness to pay roles continued...." Really????? Unwillingness? What the hell is going on?????

"...once the team jumps you early on..." So they are a "team", we are a "group". And anyway, we should be very familiar with going behind early by letting other teams get the jump on us, it's happened several times a season, every season, for about decade now. We should be the best team in the league at dealing with that situation.

"We were lucky they didn't kick straight..." There's that appeal to Lady Luck again. When we start poorly it's because of bad luck, but when they don't kick straight, it's down to good luck. Right.

"Our focus for the next match is hard to tell initially..." Here's my suggestion: winning.

"I think you'll see a spirited effort next week." You "think" we'll see a spirited effort? That's nice, but why aren't you certain we'll see a spirited effort? Maybe it's for the same reason that I, too, am not certain of that. Why should we believe you anyway? We didn't see a spirited effort this week, or last week. Granted, the Swans and Suns games offer evidence that the "group" can put it together, but it speaks volumes that the writer feels the need to reassure us on effort. We're regularly told that the team is going to put in a better effort "next week", and here we go again. There must be a difference that I am unaware of between getting thrashed by Port and getting thrashed by Collingwood which is for some reason going to produce a spirited effort against Melbourne next week.

"Stick with us." Been doing that for 26 years. The triple was great. Winning a final against Carlton was very satisfying. But holy crap, that first quarter, against that opposition, was that bad, that "stick with us" rings very, very hollow after all this time of "we're young", "we're re-building", "we're on track", "we've got lots of injuries", "we've got a tough draw", "we travel a lot", "the coach needs time", "the players need to adjust to the new system", "we've got forwards but no midfield", "we've got a midfield but no forwards", "so-and-so will be great once we get some games into him", "QLD's not a footy state" (for some reason that excuse doesn't apply to Brisbane Roar), and on and on and on.

I'm sorry everyone, I realise I'm over-analysing an email. It's just an email. I hope what I have written doesn't upset anyone. But I'm close to being fed up with this.

Totally agree. Bizaar email, full of very uninspiring / non commital language.

 

[M Malice]

Hi everyone, as you can tell I don't post here much but I have been supporting the Bears-Lions from a distance since 1990 and I'm beginning to think I can't handle it any more.

Today I got the "Leaders' Digest" email (like many here did too, I expect), this time apparently written by Tom Rockliff. Maybe he wrote it all himself, maybe it was ghost-written, or maybe he wrote it and it was "vetted" by the Corp Comms department. To my eye the vernacular of the weekly Leaders' Digest emails is suspiciously consistent, and from my experience with corporate communications I would be surprised if someone in the organisation had not "vetted" it at the very least, but perhaps the leaders actually write the email themselves, I really don't know.

But I was concerned by what I read. I think it speaks volumes about what is going on at the club. Here below I offer my comments on that email: words, phrases, and underlying attitude I would have preferred to read and infer, rather than what was actually written.

What follows is IN NO WAY a criticism of Tom Rockliff himself, I want to make that clear. He's my favourite Lion and I wish him all the best. Here goes:

"We'd gone into last night's match hopeful." I would prefer to read "determined", "confident", "resolute", or "vengeful".

"...we were confident going in we had a game-plan we could match against Collingwood". What about a game-plan which gives you confidence you can beat them.

"Unfortunately we started poorly..." Luck has very little to do with it. We have been starting poorly for years and years and years. Blaming luck is avoiding reality.

"...and never really got a look in..." You want Collingwood to play nice and give you a look in? Nasty Collingwood, not giving you a look in, how mean of them. It's a stock phrase, but to me it reveals an underlying attitude problem.

"It definitely wasn't the result we wanted". Ok, you wanted to win, I understand that. But did you really want it? Really? Because watching the game, it really didn't look like it.

"If you look at the group..." I hate that term "group". You're supposed to be a TEAM for Cliff's sake.

"...energy was down..." what, again? More gastro? What are you talking about? If there's one game in the season etc. etc. I don't need to elaborate, we all know what I'm getting at.

"...the unwillingness to play roles continued last night." This is perhaps the most telling clause in the whole text. What is he saying here? Does it suggest the players are fed up with being played out of position? Or that they just aren't buying in to the structures? Or they don't have respect for the leaders, or the coaches? The "unwillingness to pay roles continued...." Really????? Unwillingness? What the hell is going on?????

"...once the team jumps you early on..." So they are a "team", we are a "group". And anyway, we should be very familiar with going behind early by letting other teams get the jump on us, it's happened several times a season, every season, for about decade now. We should be the best team in the league at dealing with that situation.

"We were lucky they didn't kick straight..." There's that appeal to Lady Luck again. When we start poorly it's because of bad luck, but when they don't kick straight, it's down to good luck. Right.

"Our focus for the next match is hard to tell initially..." Here's my suggestion: winning.

"I think you'll see a spirited effort next week." You "think" we'll see a spirited effort? That's nice, but why aren't you certain we'll see a spirited effort? Maybe it's for the same reason that I, too, am not certain of that. Why should we believe you anyway? We didn't see a spirited effort this week, or last week. Granted, the Swans and Suns games offer evidence that the "group" can put it together, but it speaks volumes that the writer feels the need to reassure us on effort. We're regularly told that the team is going to put in a better effort "next week", and here we go again. There must be a difference that I am unaware of between getting thrashed by Port and getting thrashed by Collingwood which is for some reason going to produce a spirited effort against Melbourne next week.

"Stick with us." Been doing that for 26 years. The triple was great. Winning a final against Carlton was very satisfying. But holy crap, that first quarter, against that opposition, was that bad, that "stick with us" rings very, very hollow after all this time of "we're young", "we're re-building", "we're on track", "we've got lots of injuries", "we've got a tough draw", "we travel a lot", "the coach needs time", "the players need to adjust to the new system", "we've got forwards but no midfield", "we've got a midfield but no forwards", "so-and-so will be great once we get some games into him", "QLD's not a footy state" (for some reason that excuse doesn't apply to Brisbane Roar), and on and on and on.

I'm sorry everyone, I realise I'm over-analysing an email. It's just an email. I hope what I have written doesn't upset anyone. But I'm close to being fed up with this.

great post. after thinking a little too much about our situation following the massacre on grass on saturday night i have a couple more thoughts.

leppa was told to modify his gruff/aloof style with the players which apparently he has, which from reports was player and craig lambert driven.

leppa said during the off season that after the great round 23 win v the dogs that the playing group had come to him saying they wanted to play a more open "run and gun" style of footy which he relented to which at the time i didn't give much thought to, a collaborative approach and all that.

then yesterday i read on a news link on BF that the players had a long honesty session following the game on saturday night and the result was they told leppa that reputations mean nothing and to pick players on form and not reputations.

questions-
1. who besides tom rockliff and dayne beams has a reputation as a consistent elite/A grade player?

2. do the players have too much say?

3. leppa shouldn't need to be told to pick on form surely?

i sincerely hope that leppas authority/respect within the playing group has not been undermined through these processes, if it has there is hardly ever a way back IMO.

 

[Skoob]

Hi everyone, as you can tell I don't post here much but I have been supporting the Bears-Lions from a distance since 1990 and I'm beginning to think I can't handle it any more.

Today I got the "Leaders' Digest" email (like many here did too, I expect), this time apparently written by Tom Rockliff. Maybe he wrote it all himself, maybe it was ghost-written, or maybe he wrote it and it was "vetted" by the Corp Comms department. To my eye the vernacular of the weekly Leaders' Digest emails is suspiciously consistent, and from my experience with corporate communications I would be surprised if someone in the organisation had not "vetted" it at the very least, but perhaps the leaders actually write the email themselves, I really don't know.

But I was concerned by what I read. I think it speaks volumes about what is going on at the club. Here below I offer my comments on that email: words, phrases, and underlying attitude I would have preferred to read and infer, rather than what was actually written.

What follows is IN NO WAY a criticism of Tom Rockliff himself, I want to make that clear. He's my favourite Lion and I wish him all the best. Here goes:

"We'd gone into last night's match hopeful." I would prefer to read "determined", "confident", "resolute", or "vengeful".

"...we were confident going in we had a game-plan we could match against Collingwood". What about a game-plan which gives you confidence you can beat them.

"Unfortunately we started poorly..." Luck has very little to do with it. We have been starting poorly for years and years and years. Blaming luck is avoiding reality.

"...and never really got a look in..." You want Collingwood to play nice and give you a look in? Nasty Collingwood, not giving you a look in, how mean of them. It's a stock phrase, but to me it reveals an underlying attitude problem.

"It definitely wasn't the result we wanted". Ok, you wanted to win, I understand that. But did you really want it? Really? Because watching the game, it really didn't look like it.

"If you look at the group..." I hate that term "group". You're supposed to be a TEAM for Cliff's sake.

"...energy was down..." what, again? More gastro? What are you talking about? If there's one game in the season etc. etc. I don't need to elaborate, we all know what I'm getting at.

"...the unwillingness to play roles continued last night." This is perhaps the most telling clause in the whole text. What is he saying here? Does it suggest the players are fed up with being played out of position? Or that they just aren't buying in to the structures? Or they don't have respect for the leaders, or the coaches? The "unwillingness to pay roles continued...." Really????? Unwillingness? What the hell is going on?????

"...once the team jumps you early on..." So they are a "team", we are a "group". And anyway, we should be very familiar with going behind early by letting other teams get the jump on us, it's happened several times a season, every season, for about decade now. We should be the best team in the league at dealing with that situation.

"We were lucky they didn't kick straight..." There's that appeal to Lady Luck again. When we start poorly it's because of bad luck, but when they don't kick straight, it's down to good luck. Right.

"Our focus for the next match is hard to tell initially..." Here's my suggestion: winning.

"I think you'll see a spirited effort next week." You "think" we'll see a spirited effort? That's nice, but why aren't you certain we'll see a spirited effort? Maybe it's for the same reason that I, too, am not certain of that. Why should we believe you anyway? We didn't see a spirited effort this week, or last week. Granted, the Swans and Suns games offer evidence that the "group" can put it together, but it speaks volumes that the writer feels the need to reassure us on effort. We're regularly told that the team is going to put in a better effort "next week", and here we go again. There must be a difference that I am unaware of between getting thrashed by Port and getting thrashed by Collingwood which is for some reason going to produce a spirited effort against Melbourne next week.

"Stick with us." Been doing that for 26 years. The triple was great. Winning a final against Carlton was very satisfying. But holy crap, that first quarter, against that opposition, was that bad, that "stick with us" rings very, very hollow after all this time of "we're young", "we're re-building", "we're on track", "we've got lots of injuries", "we've got a tough draw", "we travel a lot", "the coach needs time", "the players need to adjust to the new system", "we've got forwards but no midfield", "we've got a midfield but no forwards", "so-and-so will be great once we get some games into him", "QLD's not a footy state" (for some reason that excuse doesn't apply to Brisbane Roar), and on and on and on.

I'm sorry everyone, I realise I'm over-analysing an email. It's just an email. I hope what I have written doesn't upset anyone. But I'm close to being fed up with this.

All very fair points. To me, anything written/said by anyone at the club was going to be hollow and meaningless. The club was compelled to say something, anything, after Saturday, they had to, but at the same time it was never going to be good enough. Short of telling us that the entire squad had gastro, there is no excuse. And you're right, we've heard it all before. Words don't matter here; We need to see action. Don't tell us you think next week will be spirited, because we don't believe it. If we see a strong performance, we'll feel a little better about things (but still lament what could have been the week before).

moncon you get extra points for the use of "for Cliff's sake".

 

[royboys4eva]

Yeah the emails from the players are a nice gesture but mean very little to me. Would have been nice for Rocky to say this was a joke of an effort and the players and club need to have a good hard look at themselves, but he would have got torn to shreds by the media. Well except Hammo

 

[dlanod]

Yeah the emails from the players are a nice gesture but mean very little to me. Would have been nice for Rocky to say this was a joke of an effort and the players and club need to have a good hard look at themselves, but he would have got torn to shreds by the media. Well except Hammo

I agree - I enjoy getting them and reading them, and I tend to assume they're written by the players in question (though almost definitely proof-read for grammar and spelling) but ultimately they are a corporate communication. You're not going to get anything trashing the club like some people would hope to see. They're basically a summary of what the player would say in a press Q&A plus a bit more insight into how the players are feeling about it. It's nice, but don't read more into them than they are.

 

[adey115]

Tired of getting to round 6,7 or 8, knowing full well that the season was probably over well before I was prepared to even acknowledge it.
Tired of that moment being even before winter actually starts.
Tired of putting up with more than a handful of insipid performances each year, but year in and year out. A couple a year is palatable, but not every year. We're a decade (less one year) into the handful of insipid performances each year though.
Tired of guys playing like they don't actually give a damn.
Tired of thinking that our depth is shallow and that those guys who should be providing the depth, are not developing due to our system, our facilities, and the crap seconds league we play in (which we're crap in anyway).
Tired of wondering when my club is actually going to come good. That feeling of turning the corner, it just never really arrives.
Tired of being apathetic about my team. This is my team. I don't have any expectation of them being successful. I'm tired of that.
Tired of finding reasons not to want and go and see my team play, on the few times per year they are here and I'm available to see them live.
Tired of knowing a few minutes into a game, that the team just isn't switched on and in the contest.
Tired of knowing that the guys on my team really aren't much chop, and knowing that there is a big chance that during the game I'll think they they aren't even having a go. What supporters want, if they know they're at the bottom but developing, is that feeling that the guys are learning, but also that they're really having a go at the contest. I'm tired of not having that feeling.

I feel like walking into the rooms next weekend, and going up to half the team and asking them to hand over their jumper. I'll wear it. I'm likely to get actually killed out there, but at least I'll give a shit about wearing it, I'll be passionate about representing it, and I'll try my guts out even though I'll be crap.

 

[harvester]

I think the problem is the team is used to losing, and can't snap out of it. I am expecting similar for the rest of the year unfortunately. We dont have a cast of positive young leaders like we had in the mid - late 90's, led by the champ roger merrett... Who had been through many tough times back then, but turned the corner. We also dont have a wallsy to straighten the team out and expect better.. earn some respect.

Our game is woeful, sounds exciting, but only looks good once or twice a match. We dont have the cattle to play like that and must start playing a more defensive style.

Leppa needs to change things or his gig is up unfortunately.

 

[winged1]

Re that blow up thing they run through onto the ground.

They keep playing like this they need to turn it around, will be more accurate to what we are likely to get.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

I followed Fitzroy for a long time before Brisbane. We got flogged every week for years but I never was as disgusted or disillusioned as I am now. I never thought Fitzroy was shit from top to bottom and that's how I feel now about Brisbane right now. I never thought "the Roy boys did not try today or they don't care or our team is full of blokes who are lazy and ahead of themselves". This is what I feel about Brisbane at the moment. Fitzroy had little talent but gave everything every week. That's all I want but we are never going to get it untill something changes, too many pompous and overpaid flogs. I have stopped caring because it's clear majority of the players don't.

 

[Sherrinator]

Think it's time to get rid of Brion. Bring back the banners.

We don't have an official cheersquad to make banners due to lack of interest!

 

[OldLion]

yep, we've been running up a lions behind for long enough.

Maybe we entered the mouth and got excreted onto the ground. Played like it.

 

[Football Pope]

I agree - I enjoy getting them and reading them, and I tend to assume they're written by the players in question (though almost definitely proof-read for grammar and spelling) but ultimately they are a corporate communication. You're not going to get anything trashing the club like some people would hope to see. They're basically a summary of what the player would say in a press Q&A plus a bit more insight into how the players are feeling about it. It's nice, but don't read more into them than they are.

Yeah, I wondered how many of us had the accent going in the head while reading Pearce's?

 

[Football Pope]

We don't have an official cheersquad to make banners due to lack of interest!

That's QLD only, which supports Matthews comments...The AFL signs off seat allocation ....There is always one in Melbourne (Includes Geelong games), Tasmania, Adelaide, Sydney and I believe Perth as well...Pathetic that Qld chapter can't get their act together...chance to write some witty stuff for the lads to run through...Seems the poorer part of the merger, The Granny Brigade, have outlived their Northern counterparts...

 

[Len S]

That's QLD only, which supports Matthews comments...The AFL signs off seat allocation ....There is always one in Melbourne (Includes Geelong games), Tasmania, Adelaide, Sydney and I believe Perth as well...Pathetic that Qld chapter can't get their act together...chance to write some witty stuff for the lads to run through...Seems the poorer part of the merger, The Granny Brigade, have outlived their Northern counterparts...

I made some suggestions about banners and wording, rang from Melbourne, citing the witty Bulldog banners.They are often done by a local comedian. The lions office just couldn't get their heads around it..no sense of humour, no idea.The doggies again turned up with a great banner thjs week which got huge coverage.

 

[Football Pope]

I made some suggestions about banners and wording, rang from Melbourne, citing the witty Bulldog banners.They are often done by a local comedian. The lions office just couldn't get their heads around it..no sense of humour, no idea.The doggies again turned up with a great banner thjs week which got huge coverage.

Yep.....I made the suggestion, last year, against Essendon we should have the following on the banner

I say you'd better take Hird - needle in a haystack
You'd better play hard to get
Or you're gonna regret
Good guys are like findin' - a needle in a haystack.

Edit:
Dogs banners always take a snipe at the opposition...

 

[moncon]

All very fair points. To me, anything written/said by anyone at the club was going to be hollow and meaningless. The club was compelled to say something, anything, after Saturday, they had to, but at the same time it was never going to be good enough. Short of telling us that the entire squad had gastro, there is no excuse. And you're right, we've heard it all before. Words don't matter here; We need to see action. Don't tell us you think next week will be spirited, because we don't believe it. If we see a strong performance, we'll feel a little better about things (but still lament what could have been the week before).

moncon you get extra points for the use of "for Cliff's sake".

Hah! I've been quoting "Wick', the People's Poet, for years! I reckon you're the first who's ever picked up on it! Rest in peace Rik Mayall. Cheers Skoob!

 

[alscotoz2]

All very fair points. To me, anything written/said by anyone at the club was going to be hollow and meaningless. The club was compelled to say something, anything, after Saturday, they had to, but at the same time it was never going to be good enough. Short of telling us that the entire squad had gastro, there is no excuse. And you're right, we've heard it all before. Words don't matter here; We need to see action. Don't tell us you think next week will be spirited, because we don't believe it. If we see a strong performance, we'll feel a little better about things (but still lament what could have been the week before).

moncon you get extra points for the use of "for Cliff's sake".

 

[SizeMatters]

Yep.....I made the suggestion, last year, against Essendon we should have the following on the banner

I say you'd better take Hird - needle in a haystack
You'd better play hard to get
Or you're gonna regret
Good guys are like findin' - a needle in a haystack.

Edit:
Dogs banners always take a snipe at the opposition...

Funny, but no chance in hell that the AFL would allow something like this.

 

[luthor]

Been a bit of speculation lately about the Players taking industrial action if the AFL doesn't meet their demands for a fixed percentage of revenue.

I am comforted that our Brisbane Lions players are ahead of the curve, apparently.

Looks like they went on strike at 7.25pm last Saturday

 

[SRH17]

Just completed the survey that was sent to me about my match day experience for the Brisbane Collingwood match - would love to see some of the responses that they get.