-
AFLW 2024 - Round 7 - Pride Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
VFL Premierships......
- Thread starter speedy
- Start date
- Tagged users None
It isn't really any different. The competition was barely any different between 1989 and 1991.
But then again there is no harm either in counting the 1989 flag against a "VFL" label and the 1991 flag against an "AFL" label.
Hawthorn still get credit for both flags.
There are however benefits to separating out the counts.
STILL no-one has yet come up with a real objection to having separate counts.
Soooo ... once again, I ask ... why not ?
I could just as easily come out with a dummy spit that over half of the AFL following have no interest whatsoever in 14 of Essendons flags or all but one of Collingwoods flags or Carltons flags.
I could just as easily point out that it is Victorian insecurity about their history to insist on counting them all together in one tally as a hedge against the likes of Brisbane's 3 AFL flags.
After all, we can't possibly think the johnny-come-latelys are better sides than the glorious Blues, can we now Deej?
Heaven forbid that there should be a means to compare apples with apples.
The SANFL has changed names a few times in the past 100 years - should Port's Premierships be divided up?
Should Collingwood and Essendon etc add the VFA flags they won in the 1800's????
Its pedantic and pathetic (not to mention too much information), and there are no benefits except in the eyes of some people with inferiority complexes
Should Collingwood and Essendon etc add the VFA flags they won in the 1800's????
Its pedantic and pathetic (not to mention too much information), and there are no benefits except in the eyes of some people with inferiority complexes
There is no suggestion of re-starting any counts at zero.
There is that Victorian inferiority complex coming out again ... twisting the suggestion around to something else entirly being the only way of attacking it.
- Banned
- #85
Precisely my thoughts.
MTC stop thinking about this, the truth is that the AFL is the VFL renamed, we let you into our comp so you play by our rules. If you want to count DVFL or WAFL or tuggeranong under 13's flags then that's fine, but in this comp which has been going for over a hundred years HENCE THE AFL'S CENTENARY YEAR IN 1996 we only count flags won in this comp. End of story.
I think they have.
Mine is that factually saying Essendon have 16 flags in this competition is correct, everyone knows what a simple 16 premierships means in respect of Essendon and anything more is driven by subject assessments of relative worth or merit and is superfluous. Others have said it aint broke don’t fix it in a manner of speaking. These are reasons are they not?
In any event it is surely incumbent on someone promoting change to show sufficient benefit for the change and you have proven none to me. A why not defense is not a sufficient argument. Deej is right IMO; insecurity is a larger driver of this debate.
Yes there is. You are trying to divide one competition (the VFL which was renamed the AFL) into two, thereby arbitrarily making a distinction between a 1989 Premiership and a 1991 Premiership.
You are telling the VFL clubs they have to start at zero.
At no time the the SANFL change its scope outside of the bounds of a suburban-based competition.
Yes. As long as they are counted as VFA flags and not VFL flags or AFL flags.
I could easily counter by saying that the only benefit in retaining statistics from a long-gone state-based league is to pander to the insecurity of Victorian fans with an inferiority complex.
But I don't. There is merit in paying heed to the history of the game, and giving credit for historical achievement.
Just pay heed to all of that history, is the suggestion.
There is a suggestion on the table that achieves that end. There are STILL no valid objections raised.
Sooooo ... once again, I ask ... why not ?
I a way I am, and in another way I'm not.
There is absolutely NO suggestion that Essendon's 14 VFL flags don't count. They do count. As VFL flags. There is no re-set to zero here.
OTOH - I am saying that prior to 1990 all VFL clubs had zero AFL flags.
That I guess is the contention. It seems perfectly true to me. I'm sure it also seems perfectly true to over half of the AFL total following.
I don't. A huge dummy spit over "it has just been renamed" is hardly a good reason.
They are reasons, just not valid ones. They ignore large slices of the history of the game that the statistics such as flag counts is trying to acknowledge.
I have stated the reason many times. We should aknowledge the history of the game. All of the history. Not just the Victorian history.
I proposed a means to acknowledge it all, yet not detract from the credit accorded to VFL clubs.
That is a sufficient benefit. Not alienating half of your audience is a HUGE benefit.
- Banned
- #92
MTC you can pay as much acknowledgment to the game as you like, but when we ask how many flags your club has in this competition you must answer "2" and I must answer "16", and Porthos must answer "zero", and it's as simple as that.
The Crows history as a club doesn't extend back 100+ years.
Port's history does.
PS: - this response hotpie illustrates very well exactly which of us it is who is insecure about history, and it ain't me.
Becaue they are contrary to yours. They are based on fact in that the current AFL is the former VFL whereas yours are based on subjective judgements.
More than happy for that but the right medium is surely the issue. The AFL is not part of some nationally originated competition in the way say the NSL is. The AFL is a Victorian originated competition called the AFL which grew to a point that bodies from other States paid to join it and thereby contributed to it's ongoing evolution. That is the history and it is you who is trying to revise it.
So the effect of all these alienated supporters is what exactly? They feel so strongly that Adelaide and West Coast are the biggest most profitable clubs. A few internet whingers doesn't make for an alientated supporter base.
A question on a similar line:
Should the NRL distinguish between flags pre Brisbane and/or Storm and/or NZ? From when?
The VFL/AFL's history extends back 100+ years. Port's history in the AFL extends back five minutes.
P.S. Your response to my response illustrates very well how touchy you are, when I make a light hearted dig at the Crows and you get all sooky about it.
- Aug 31, 2003
- 732
- 4
"As for the debate about state leagues, Footscray defeated Essendon in a VFA vs VFL 'play-off' in 1920 (?). But that doesn't change the fact that Footscray don't count their VFA "
Footscray VFA Premiers defeated Essendon VFL premiers in 1924 at the MCG for the Champions of Victoria and have a blue and white premiership type flag at the Western Oval to prove it.
I believe that all priemierships should be counted seperately.
Interestingly all the present Melbourne AFL clubs were also originally in the VFA at some stage and many were playing each other well before 1877 when the VFA was formed..
Heres a list of AFL clubs with VFA Flags.
Footscray 9
Geelong 7 + I new VFL
North Melb 6
South Melb/Swans 5
Essendon 4
Carlton 2
Richmond 2
Collingwood 1
Fitzroy/ Brisbane 1
ST Kilda none
Melbourne none
Footscray VFA Premiers defeated Essendon VFL premiers in 1924 at the MCG for the Champions of Victoria and have a blue and white premiership type flag at the Western Oval to prove it.
I believe that all priemierships should be counted seperately.
Interestingly all the present Melbourne AFL clubs were also originally in the VFA at some stage and many were playing each other well before 1877 when the VFA was formed..
Heres a list of AFL clubs with VFA Flags.
Footscray 9
Geelong 7 + I new VFL
North Melb 6
South Melb/Swans 5
Essendon 4
Carlton 2
Richmond 2
Collingwood 1
Fitzroy/ Brisbane 1
ST Kilda none
Melbourne none
I am not one bit sooky about it, and once again you miss the point.
Your counting ignores most of the history of the game.
My counting doesn't, and it rightly accords due credit to a current AFL club that has a 100+ year history. My counting also does not detract from the credit accorded to VFL clubs.
Where is the merit in your counting ?
