Vic Club dominating (10 flags in 11 years)

[go_the_dockers]

No I'm the victim. Please, guess most of you don't remember the ten years prior to that where North and Essendon were the only two Victorian teams to win a flag. Swings and roundabouts.

Most of them were either due to the initial squads given those teams, or additional salary cap.

92,94, 97, 98, 04 - The initial squad came together.
01,02,03 - an extra 10% in the salary cap helped, plus they got everything else correct.

PS - Carlton won one in 1995 or around then as well.

Only the Eagles have built a side through the draft with out major salary cap advantages.

On a different note, I wonder if the scouting has improved so much that WA\SA clubs can no longer hide players in the draft.

 

[Luv_our_club]

You can't blame getting smashed in the midfield on GF day on the shape of the ground.

You can't blame missing easy shots at goal.

You can't blame getting pushed off the ball, over powered in the contest.

You can't blame running into an open 50 and passing to the opposition.

West Coast, Sydney, Freo, Adelaide have all played like shit on GF day over the past 5 years. The only exception is perhaps 2016.

 

[Taylor]

How'd they accumulate 25 weeks of travel?

Because they fly out Thursday and fly in Sunday.

On a plane once per week

 

[BTs Nana]

All they need to do is allocate interstate clubs an extra 20% of tickets when they are facing a Victorian club.

Interstate clubs need to be smarter in matching their ground dimensions to that of the MCG and if they cannot or will not do that then they need to lobby the AFL to allow the highest ranked team the opportunity to dictate field dimensions on the day.

That is about as equal as it will get if the interstate clubs don't band together to get a guarantee from the AFL that they will not renew the MCG agreement. We know they won't because they are career administrators.

 

[BTs Nana]

You can't blame getting smashed in the midfield on GF day on the shape of the ground.

You can't blame missing easy shots at goal.

You can't blame getting pushed off the ball, over powered in the contest.

You can't blame running into an open 50 and passing to the opposition.

West Coast, Sydney, Freo, Adelaide have all played like shit on GF day over the past 5 years. The only exception is perhaps 2016.

If not for the crowd and field dimensions then explain home ground advantage?

 

[conrad_437]

2014 doesn't piss me off because we were shite that day, but 2016 annoys me greatly as honestly the umpiring was a disgrace, and part of the reason for that could have easily been the fact the game was at the MCG and the neutrals were all supporting the Bulldogs. The umpiring that day no doubt affected the result.

omg this has been done to death. umpiring DID NOT affect the result on the day. over a year ago. get over it.

 

[Luv_our_club]

If not for the crowd and field dimensions then explain home ground advantage?

You should have also excluded geography and weather

 

[Stax on the mill]

Goes to show interstate clubs have just got to get smarter and better. Their perennial whingeing about the raw deal they cop is becoming tiresome. Pretty clear they’ve dropped the ball over the years, despite the clear advantages they enjoy over the Victorian based clubs, gifted to them by the AFL.

 

[Always Ballin]

Goes to show interstate clubs have just got to get smarter and better. Their perennial whingeing about the raw deal they cop is becoming tiresome. Pretty clear they’ve dropped the ball over the years, despite the clear advantages they enjoy over the Victorian based clubs, gifted to them by the AFL.

Delusional.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The game was barely professional in the 1990's. Players still went out and had beer and pizza as their after match routine so what happened back then is not too relevant today.

Only two of those were in the 90's. Brisbane, Port, Sydney and West Coast won 01-06.

 

[Bokonon_]

If not for the crowd and field dimensions then explain home ground advantage?

I dont think it's as strong as people think, particularly in finals. H/A season some extra motivation, local knowlege for the home side. One of the best indicators of a serious contender is a team that can win anywhere during the home and away season.

 

[Power Play]

West Coast 2006 are the only non Victorian team to have won a premiership without concessions, and lets face it most of that team was on the gear anyway.

Does the viability of non Victorian teams need to come into question?

 

[M Malice]

The GF should remain at the MCG in perpetuity IMO, if you are good enough you'll win anywhere.

Just highlights how fantastic the Lions 01-03 side was beating the Bombers and Pies on their home ground to win the 3peat.

 

[Thats Wright]

West Coast 2006 are the only non Victorian team to have won a premiership without concessions, and lets face it most of that team was on the gear anyway.

Does the viability of non Victorian teams need to come into question?

What was the point of letting the WA teams enter in the first place?

Obviously too far away and it really dilutes the WAFL.

 

[Monkey King]

It is my opinion that playing 17 out of 22 games in the same city each season represents a greater advantage than playing a WA side who has also just flown back into WA within the week too.

In 2017 Freo played 12 games in WA at the same stadium. 10 of those against teams that had travelled from out of state. Carlton played 16 games in Victoria, 10 at one stadium, 6 at another. 4 of those were against teams that had travelled from out of state. It’s a four game difference, which is not massive and is somewhat offset by the advantages of playing more often against travelling teams at a consistent home venue.

In the end, I think this gets blown out of proportion a bit and in time, as the league evolves and the balance between Vic and non-Vic clubs equalises (eg. say a third WA team and a team from Tassie), it might even turn out to be an advantage for WA sides, with the travel cut down to potentially only a game the difference.

 

[boncer34]

Because they fly out Thursday and fly in Sunday.

On a plane once per week

They do that every week?

 

[footyfan1978]

It is my opinion that playing 17 out of 22 games in the same city each season represents a greater advantage than playing a WA side who has also just flown back into WA within the week too.

This is why playing Gold Coast at home in round 3 represents such an benefit for Fremantle next year. We don't have to travel back to WA to play a side at home the following week.

There isn't any way around it though, 10 of 18 clubs are in one city.

Lets break this down just for a laugh at all this with a club I have no time for but from here anyway.
Essendon play 16 games in the city of Melbourne, 6 times interstate with distinct disadvantage.
Now of the 16 games they play here where is there distinct advantage to balance out the distinct disadvantage of 6 times in those 22 games ?

I'll tell you. There is none!

They actually play 4 teams from interstate here and I would also argue due to nature of more clubs from interstate getting to visit grounds like ES and MCG a few times each year the advantage is not the same enjoyed by those in Perth the other way around. No clubs from my experience even get to train on MCG or Etihad anyway. Not really like any club makes it their distinct home advantage here.
So anyway they play 16 times here of which 12 of those are against other clubs from this region. They are basically games with no advantage either side for 12 of their 22 games. So 6 games with distinct disadvantage weighed up against 4 at most of advantage. So all things being equal on playing ability if in theory Fremantle and Essendon had same playing ability you would expect Essendon win 6 of those 12 games against other clubs based in Victoria, lose 6 interstate and win 4 against clubs here from interstate which would lead them to average 10 wins.

Now Fremantle have only 2 games of the season of a club from same city.
11 of them with distinct advantage next season of clubs from other states so that is almost leading towards expectation of 12 wins right there.


2 wins ahead and advantaged to be more likely to make finals and furthermore if better than average even more likely to double up and run with that unfair advantage of home finals with more distinct advantages. All in all it leads one to believe it is far easier to make a grand final if you are from Fremantle than it is if you are from a Victorian based club. But as you might say, "There isn't any way around it though" so we just live with it as part of the nations geography and how it plays out in the fixture each year I guess. But we should not be throwing Fremantle an extra home game when they already have such an advantage to start with. It is not just unfair to some clubs here but also to other clubs from Perth, Adelaide , Sydney and Brisbane in this case.

My only wish this season to amuse me no end is this farce comes to full light by some minor miracle Lyon coaches Fremantle to be better than average and they run with the unfair fixture handed to them by nufty Gll types end up 2nd on ladder by maybe 4 premiership points on ladder and less percentage than Collingwood in 3rd place and Eddie McEgo finds his precious Colliwobbles drawn to play Fremantle in Perth in week one of finals and his head actually explodes from all his late whinging he will do and cries about how unfair it all is for all clubs and he is not doing it just because it is against his club. But he said nothing when fixture released....

 

[RUNVS]

omg this has been done to death. umpiring DID NOT affect the result on the day. over a year ago. get over it.

Except the AFL admitted that in a combination of dodgy free kicks for the Bulldogs, and obvious free kicks missed for the Swans that the Swans were robbed of about 4 or 5 goals. You can't say 4 or 5 goals would not have mattered.

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

What if those interstate sides having bad days was the result of accumulating 25 weeks of travel?

Adelaide took a trip to the Gold Coast......that they didn't have to

Man travel must be so bad

 

[PrinceCharles]

The game was barely professional in the 1990's. Players still went out and had beer and pizza as their after match routine so what happened back then is not too relevant today.

Yeah and Carey wasn't even getting good stats. Amiright?

 

[Taylor]

In 2017 Freo played 12 games in WA at the same stadium. 10 of those against teams that had travelled from out of state. Carlton played 16 games in Victoria, 10 at one stadium, 6 at another. 4 of those were against teams that had travelled from out of state. It’s a four game difference, which is not massive and is somewhat offset by the advantages of playing more often against travelling teams at a consistent home venue.

In the end, I think this gets blown out of proportion a bit and in time, as the league evolves and the balance between Vic and non-Vic clubs equalises (eg. say a third WA team and a team from Tassie), it might even turn out to be an advantage for WA sides, with the travel cut down to potentially only a game the difference.

I would hope a third WA side makes that much difference, it would mean we have 13-15 games in our home state a year assuming we play the other WA sides twice each year. If that can be A,H,H,H,A,H,H,H,A,H,H,H,A,H,H,H,A,H,H,H,H,A where H is home state and A is a travelling game.

They do that every week?

Not every week, Fremantle get two weeks next season where they aren't either getting on a plane to fly interstate or coming back from interstate.

Lets break this down just for a laugh at all this with a club I have no time for but from here anyway.
Essendon play 16 games in the city of Melbourne, 6 times interstate with distinct disadvantage.
Now of the 16 games they play here where is there distinct advantage to balance out the distinct disadvantage of 6 times in those 22 games ?

I'll tell you. There is none!

They actually play 4 teams from interstate here and I would also argue due to nature of more clubs from interstate getting to visit grounds like ES and MCG a few times each year the advantage is not the same enjoyed by those in Perth the other way around. No clubs from my experience even get to train on MCG or Etihad anyway. Not really like any club makes it their distinct home advantage here.
So anyway they play 16 times here of which 12 of those are against other clubs from this region. They are basically games with no advantage either side for 12 of their 22 games. So 6 games with distinct disadvantage weighed up against 4 at most of advantage. So all things being equal on playing ability if in theory Fremantle and Essendon had same playing ability you would expect Essendon win 6 of those 12 games against other clubs based in Victoria, lose 6 interstate and win 4 against clubs here from interstate which would lead them to average 10 wins.

Now Fremantle have only 2 games of the season of a club from same city.
11 of them with distinct advantage next season of clubs from other states so that is almost leading towards expectation of 12 wins right there.


2 wins ahead and advantaged to be more likely to make finals and furthermore if better than average even more likely to double up and run with that unfair advantage of home finals with more distinct advantages. All in all it leads one to believe it is far easier to make a grand final if you are from Fremantle than it is if you are from a Victorian based club. But as you might say, "There isn't any way around it though" so we just live with it as part of the nations geography and how it plays out in the fixture each year I guess. But we should not be throwing Fremantle an extra home game when they already have such an advantage to start with. It is not just unfair to some clubs here but also to other clubs from Perth, Adelaide , Sydney and Brisbane in this case.

My only wish this season to amuse me no end is this farce comes to full light by some minor miracle Lyon coaches Fremantle to be better than average and they run with the unfair fixture handed to them by nufty Gll types end up 2nd on ladder by maybe 4 premiership points on ladder and less percentage than Collingwood in 3rd place and Eddie McEgo finds his precious Colliwobbles drawn to play Fremantle in Perth in week one of finals and his head actually explodes from all his late whinging he will do and cries about how unfair it all is for all clubs and he is not doing it just because it is against his club. But he said nothing when fixture released....

I'm guessing that for your position to work I have to entirely discount the effect of travel so that a stadium full of fans can be the sole difference?

The significant disadvantage Carlton has flying over to play in WA is what the WA teams have to deal with every week. I can run between the two stadiums that Carlton will play almost three quarters of their season at in less than 20 minutes. That Carlton aren't used to it doesn't discount that WA sides have to get on a plane, either coming or going, almost every week.

The WA sides get less equality by playing a team in WA than the VIC sides do playing out of Victoria.

 

[Taylor]

Adelaide took a trip to the Gold Coast......that they didn't have to

Man travel must be so bad

Citation needed.

I don't remember them playing a game up there and they still managed to come back with a season ending hamstring injury.

 

[footyfan1978]

The WA sides get less equality by playing a team in WA than the VIC sides do playing out of Victoria.

Yes, you actually get MORE ADVANTAGE which is the whole point of the example of just highlighted that clearly went over your head. Clubs here in essence have to win more of their games on merit with only rare times enjoying anything like the distinct advantages your club receives of more home games next season than anyone else. Totally unfair what Gil handed to you but enjoy it for what it is. Just do not make out the complete opposite without me laughing at the farce it is. The fixture and system is weighted that you are more likely to make a grand final than most clubs. Just the way it is. Makes me laugh when you cry to make out you are disadvantaged compared to most.

 

[go_the_dockers]

You can't blame getting smashed in the midfield on GF day on the shape of the ground.

You can't blame missing easy shots at goal.

You can't blame getting pushed off the ball, over powered in the contest.

You can't blame running into an open 50 and passing to the opposition.

West Coast, Sydney, Freo, Adelaide have all played like shit on GF day over the past 5 years. The only exception is perhaps 2016.

Is that why the Hawks lost to the Eagles in Perth 3 weeks before?

 

[boncer34]

Not every week, Fremantle get two weeks next season where they aren't either getting on a plane to fly interstate or coming back from interstate.
.

Just so we're clear your say flying out Thursday and back in Sun is 2 weeks of travel?

So then what's the 10 days between the home trip Sunday and the next trip out?