Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Colonial]

The issue is that I know what I'm talking about because I can speak with experiences

No the issue is the only reason you can afford to go is it’s in your backyard every year, bit different if it was around the nation.

Most Victorian in this thread are measured and sensible in their views,

No they are thinking they don’t want to lose the advantages that are in this competition, and the GF is a whopper.

and in fact, ironically, we hate the other Victorian teams.

Not about that.

People like you are projecting a bias that doesn't exist out of an assumption that is baseless. Stop pretending to be a victim. It's utterly pathetic.

Baseless? how entitled can you get.

 

[Maddo11]

Sydney play 11 home games at SCG (all against opponents who play just 1 game at the ground).

Sydney have to travel outside of Sydney 11 times (including the neutral game in Adelaide for gather round).

Hawthorn play only 9 MCG games (none against opponents who play just 1 game at the ground, the only non-vic teams they get are Syd and Adel)

Hawthorn have to travel outside of Melbourne 11 times (including the neutral game in Adelaide for gather round).

So despite leaving Melbourne the same number of times as Sydney, they only get 2 games at the MCG where they have any real ground advantage compared to 11 for Sydney.

But it is the entitled Sydney softies who cant see how good they have it!

Hawthorn and Melbourne sell home games to Tasmania and the NT respectively though

 

[Franc de Borges]

Let’s look at the Grand Finals that should’ve been played elsewhere based on ladder position (excluding 1991 as Hawthorn beat WCE in Perth during the finals):

1994 - WCE won
1996 - SYD disadvantage
2002 - BL won
2014 - SYD disadvantage
2015 - WCE disadvantage
2016 - SYD disadvantage
2017 - ADE disadvantage
2018 - WCE won

On the five occasions that this has been an issue and the disadvantaged team has lost, I think you could strongly argue that the result would’ve been different in at least three of those (I’m going for 15, 16, and 17).

Clearly there’s an advantage.

 

[doppleganger]

Hawthorn and Melbourne sell home games to Tasmania and the NT respectively though

The old only certain types of travel actually count line.

Despite Hawthorn leaving Melbourne the same number of times as the Swans leave Sydney, they only get 2 games at the MCG where they have any real ground advantage compared to 11 for Sydney.

Yet the Swans fans think AFL bias is to the Hawks, who clearly have a tougher fixture.

 

[doppleganger]

That’s true. lol you are kidding right?

Last year the Saints played their elimination final against the Giants at the G.

The Saints home ground is Marvel Stadium. In 2023 H&A season the Saints played 14 games at Marvel.

Marvel is the ground Saints players and fans call home and are familiar with.

They didnt get a home advantage final, as the AFL doesnt Fixture Victorian games at home grounds, instead it puts them at the G.

More VICBias to StK obviously.

 

[sr36]

Let’s look at the Grand Finals that should’ve been played elsewhere based on ladder position (excluding 1991 as Hawthorn beat WCE in Perth during the finals):

1994 - WCE won
1996 - SYD disadvantage
2002 - BL won
2014 - SYD disadvantage
2015 - WCE disadvantage
2016 - SYD disadvantage
2017 - ADE disadvantage
2018 - WCE won

On the five occasions that this has been an issue and the disadvantaged team has lost, I think you could strongly argue that the result would’ve been different in at least three of those (I’m going for 15, 16, and 17).

Clearly there’s an advantage.

You think 5 v 3 clearly shows an advantage?

And you've included two of that great Hawthorn teams flags as ones that would have gone differently? And Richmond's first?

I do think there's an advantage in the MCG grand final, but those results show nothing.

 

[magpielicious]

Cry me a river!

 

[doppleganger]

Let’s look at the Grand Finals that should’ve been played elsewhere based on ladder position (excluding 1991 as Hawthorn beat WCE in Perth during the finals):

1994 - WCE won
1996 - SYD disadvantage
2002 - BL won
2014 - SYD disadvantage
2015 - WCE disadvantage
2016 - SYD disadvantage
2017 - ADE disadvantage
2018 - WCE won

On the five occasions that this has been an issue and the disadvantaged team has lost, I think you could strongly argue that the result would’ve been different in at least three of those (I’m going for 15, 16, and 17).

Clearly there’s an advantage.

You do realise they dont actually use H&A rankings for finals match-ups after week 1? If you beat minor premier, you just take their spot.

In 2015 the PF were 1v3 and 2v8, if 3rd is good enough to beat 1st on the road why dont they earn the right to host?

In 2016, Sydney lost their home QF to the Giants. The Bulldogs then beat GWS in Sydney in the PF, why do Sydney deserve to host the GF?

If awarding a GF to a home team, would need a shake-up of finals series and have a reutrn to a 2nd semi style game where 1st plays 2nd, winner gets the home GF.

So ignoring those 2 when minor premier was beaten, it is 3-3 where more teams mentally not showing up, Sydney in 2014 when they did in 2012.

 

[Franc de Borges]

You do realise they dont actually use H&A rankings for finals match-ups after week 1? If you beat minor premier, you just take their spot.

In 2015 the PF were 1v3 and 2v8, if 3rd is good enough to beat 1st on the road why dont they earn the right to host?

In 2016, Sydney lost their home QF to the Giants. The Bulldogs then beat GWS in Sydney in the PF, why do Sydney deserve to host the GF?

If awarding a GF to a home team, would need a shake-up of finals series and have a reutrn to a 2nd semi style game where 1st plays 2nd, winner gets the home GF.

So ignoring those 2 when minor premier was beaten, it is 3-3 where more teams mentally not showing up, Sydney in 2014 when they did in 2012.

Fair point regarding finals rankings, but the advantage remains.

You can’t tell me that playing the Eagles at Optus would’ve been preferable to the MCG in 2018.

It’s not going to change, but to deny reality is bizarre.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Bombers have played 10 games in a row in Victoria, the last 3 all against interstate teams. Comp is an effing rort.

 

[Grin]

I bet a large percentage of VICBias Cookers are also anti-vaxx crazies and down various other rabbit holes.

I don't mind them as much as anti-vaxxers because they're benign and also fun to point and laugh at. Although they do seem just as hateful and entitled.

 

[Colonial]

I bet a large percentage of VICBias Cookers are also anti-vaxx crazies and down other various rabbit holes.

I don't mind them as much as anti-vaxxers because they're benign and also fun to point and laugh at. Although they do seem just as hateful and entitled.

You, and your fellow deniers saying that is like when Trump supporters associate themselves to the Rebels in Star Wars.

 

[Outtatym]

Bombers have played 10 games in a row in Victoria, the last 3 all against interstate teams. Comp is an effing rort.

Impressive they are still this shit tbh

 

[doppleganger]

Fair point regarding finals rankings, but the advantage remains.

If minor premier loses a final, the team that beats them effectively takes their highest seeding.

That is how current finals are designed.

You can’t tell me that playing the Eagles at Optus would’ve been preferable to the MCG in 2018.

It’s not going to change, but to deny reality is bizarre.

Who is denying anything?

People keep also pretending a GF is just like a normal H&A game, ridiculous.

GF has always been about getting 100k fans into the biggest venue available to the league.

Nobody cared that the G was at Melbourne and Richmond's ground if they made it, it wasnt unfair that Carlton didnt get to play the GF at Princes Park.

It was always acknowledged as the big league game, played at the biggest stadium to get 100k at the ground. Nothing has changed.

GWS fans thinking they are entitled to a home GF at Energie Stadium, tell em they are dreaming.

 

[doppleganger]

Bombers have played 10 games in a row in Victoria, the last 3 all against interstate teams. Comp is an effing rort.

Port played 3 games in a row earlier in the season in SA all against non-SA teams, this was part of getting 6 of their first 8 games in SA to set up their season.

The comp is an effing rort.

 

[Franc de Borges]

If minor premier loses a final, the team that beats them effectively takes their highest seeding.

That is how current finals are designed.


Who is denying anything?

People keep also pretending a GF is just like a normal H&A game, ridiculous.

GF has always been about getting 100k fans into the biggest venue available to the league.

Nobody cared that the G was at Melbourne and Richmond's ground if they made it, it wasnt unfair that Carlton didnt get to play the GF at Princes Park.

It was always acknowledged as the big league game, played at the biggest stadium to get 100k at the ground. Nothing has changed.

GWS fans thinking they are entitled to a home GF at Energie Stadium, tell em they are dreaming.

I already acknowledged your first point, so it didn’t need to be repeated.

If you think playing the Grand Final at the biggest stadium in Melbourne, when all teams were from Melbourne/Victoria and played there several times a year, is the same as the situation we have now, then you’re delusional.

I totally understand why the Grand Final is played at the MCG and I’m actually in favour of it, but to argue that it’s not a disadvantage to non-Victorian teams is disingenuous.

 

[Underarm]

Bombers have played 10 games in a row in Victoria, the last 3 all against interstate teams. Comp is an effing rort.

And how that go for them?

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Port played 3 games in a row earlier in the season in SA all against non-SA teams, this was part of getting 6 of their first 8 games in SA to set up their season.

The comp is an effing rort.

Did port play 10 games in a row in Adelaide?

 

[blue harvest]

Bombers have played 10 games in a row in Victoria, the last 3 all against interstate teams. Comp is an effing rort.

And how did that work out for them?
They played the bulk of their interstate games in the first half of the season and were 2nd on the ladder after them!

 

[Astro35]

Port played 3 games in a row earlier in the season in SA all against non-SA teams, this was part of getting 6 of their first 8 games in SA to set up their season.

The comp is an effing rort.

Maths is hard

 

[blue harvest]

On the five occasions that this has been an issue and the disadvantaged team has lost, I think you could strongly argue that the result would’ve been different in at least three of those (I’m going for 15, 16, and 17).

I'm not so sure.

In 2015 the Hawks travelled interstate the same number of times as Eagles and 1 more than Freo, beat both of them at Subi and beat both of them in finals.

In 2016 the Bulldogs played at the G the same number of times as the Swans, won 2 interstate finals and beat the reigning premier away in their other final.

In 2017 the Tigers timed their run perfectly and were brilliant in September, whilst the Crows were mucking around with power stances and training camps on the Gold Coast in the middle of finals. You need to remember too that ticketing is different for GFs, an Adelaide Oval GF the Crows wouldn't have the bulk of the crowd like normal, Tigers could have ended up with greater support.

 

[doppleganger]

I already acknowledged your first point, so it didn’t need to be repeated.

Always need to repeat factual statements in this thread, as most of the lazy VICBias wowsers keep repeating falsehoods.

If you think playing the Grand Final at the biggest stadium in Melbourne, when all teams were from Melbourne/Victoria and played there several times a year, is the same as the situation we have now, then you’re delusional.

It was the same scenario.

In the 1970s, Carlton played just 2 H&A games at the G. Richmond played 10+.

Carlton 'earnt' the right to a home GF by winning the 2nd semi in 1973, but had to play the GF at the G against Richmond...despite only playing 2 or 3 games at the G, compared to Richmond with 12-13.

It is the same, nobody cared as everybody got that finals aren't home and away games.

I totally understand why the Grand Final is played at the MCG and I’m actually in favour of it, but to argue that it’s not a disadvantage to non-Victorian teams is disingenuous.

It is a minot disadvantage that really isnt worth complaining about.

It hasn't cost any teams a premiership.

And the bigger problem is the bias against Melbourne teams during H&A.

Teams that retain an actual home ground, with a ground familiairty advantage, dominate the H&A ladder. They then also get an advantage with a home ground advantage final in weeks 1-3, something again not provided to all Melbourne teams.

So in the pros n cons, after having H&A season and then week 1-3 in their advantage, fair enough to cop a slight disadvantage in GF.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Always need to repeat factual statements in this thread, as most of the lazy VICBias wowsers keep repeating falsehoods.


It was the same scenario.

In the 1970s, Carlton played just 2 H&A games at the G. Richmond played 10+.

Carlton 'earnt' the right to a home GF by winning the 2nd semi in 1973, but had to play the GF at the G against Richmond...despite only playing 2 or 3 games at the G, compared to Richmond with 12-13.

It is the same, nobody cared as everybody got that finals aren't home and away games.


It is a minot disadvantage that really isnt worth complaining about.

It hasn't cost any teams a premiership.

And the bigger problem is the bias against Melbourne teams during H&A.

Teams that retain an actual home ground, with a ground familiairty advantage, dominate the H&A ladder. They then also get an advantage with a home ground advantage final in weeks 1-3, something again not provided to all Melbourne teams.

So in the pros n cons, after having H&A season and then week 1-3 in their advantage, fair enough to cop a slight disadvantage in GF.

The bolded part is my favorite

 

[paulige]

In 2015 the Hawks travelled interstate the same number of times as Eagles and 1 more than Freo, beat both of them at Subi and beat both of them in finals.

Details are important.

H&A:

• Tassie 4* (3 of which were against Suns, Bris, Freo... who all had to travel much further)
• Adelaide 2
• Sydney 2
• Perth 1

8 of those 9 are aproximately 1 hour flights (one way), and 4 of them were by choice.

Total flight time for H&A of ~24 hours.

The Eagles by comparison would average around an 8 hour return trip, made 10 times that year. ~80 hours.

Another 2 Perth trips in finals... against opposition who had earned the right to play in Perth.

And then a Grand Final at... your home ground. 3 weeks after the Eagles, the top seed, comfortably beat you in Perth.

 

[doppleganger]

The bolded part is my favorite

Tis my fav too.

All the sooking over nothing.

And they keep ignoring how teams like Adelaide in 2017, WC in 2015 finished higher on the H&A due to the biased fixture.

They didnt actually earn their higher H&A ranking and were exposed as pretenders by much stronger teams.