Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

How does that happen? So no more selling games to Tasmania, Ballarat etc?
Collingwood for example get all their games at the G?

Yep it aint hard.
Every club gets their home games at home.

If AFL wants some gimmick rounds and regional games, make it even and have ALL clubs lose a home game for the regional stuff.

I agree with all of that. But don't ask us non vic clubs to do the Ballarat, Tassie, etc thing.

The entire point is that it is the Melbourne based home team who is giving up home advantage.

If your opponent is also playing away from their home, it is the nominal "home team" who are losing their home advantage, the away team has their disadvantage reduced.

 

[sr36]

Actually it only adds a week (we already have two byes). And if they go back to 22 it means no Gather Round.

Only the opening round clubs - which has added a week.

 

[Walshawk]

Only the opening round clubs - which has added a week.

Pre - finals bye. You can actually structure the fixture so it doesn’t even add a week over what we have now.

 

[JackOutback]

It is hard to take any travel complaints of GC or GWS seriously when they are selling off home games interstate but one possible way to mitigate the travel for non Vic clubs:

When Tassie come in, and we move to 24 games. Non - Vic clubs get 12 home games (SA clubs get their extra at Gather Round), and the Vic club keep 11, plus a neutral games (Gather Round plus three others - e.g. Canberra or Darwin).

I mean, it isn't really, it's just they have competing problems to deal with. As a team in a non-traditional AFL state, they have to work harder to build a following. They are not selling games interstate because travel isn't a burden, they are doing it to try and build the supporter base and improve the financials, and they have to sacrifice something to make that happen.

 

[Walshawk]

I mean, it isn't really, it's just they have competing problems to deal with. As a team in a non-traditional AFL state, they have to work harder to build a following. They are not selling games interstate because travel isn't a burden, they are doing it to try and build the supporter base and improve the financials, and they have to sacrifice something to make that happen.

Disagree. Both clubs should be building up support in their home town by playing all their games there.

 

[sr36]

Pre - finals bye. You can actually structure the fixture so it doesn’t even add a week over what we have now.

Pre finals bye doesn't count. Unless you chose to get rid of it and not consider wild card shite. You'd need a minimum of 2 byes within the home and away season and they'll be sporadically spread out causing increased whining as well as a longer home and away season.

Gather round and opening round have already added 2 weeks to home and away. An additional game with 19 clubs would add at least one more week.

 

[Walshawk]

Pre finals bye doesn't count. Unless you chose to get rid of it and not consider wild card shite. You'd need a minimum of 2 byes within the home and away season and they'll be sporadically spread out causing increased whining as well as a longer home and away season.

Gather round and opening round have already added 2 weeks to home and away. An additional game with 19 clubs would add at least one more week.

Not necessarily. You can start the same week as Opening Round this season (Labour Day weekend), and finish where we currently have the pre-finals bye. It is possible to rejig the fixture after 19 rounds to schedule the top 12 teams to have a bye in round 26 leading into the finals. There are actually multiple ways to do it.

Does anyone seriously think that the AFL is going to go back to 22 games, which would mean scrapping Gather Round? More games = more $$$. The AFL, clubs, and players will not support a reduction.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yep it aint hard.
Every club gets their home games at home.

If AFL wants some gimmick rounds and regional games, make it even and have ALL clubs lose a home game for the regional stuff.


The entire point is that it is the Melbourne based home team who is giving up home advantage.

If your opponent is also playing away from their home, it is the nominal "home team" who are losing their home advantage, the away team has their disadvantage reduced.

Could not agree more.

 

[Bulldog1954]

I agree totally with you, I am not disputing it. But you did sign up for it. When ground rationalisation happened your CEO at the time grabbed his pen and agreed to sign up to it.
I think you should be playing at Marvel stadium, but as you don't even fight to play there then its hard to do anything other than shrug your shoulders and go they seem happy with it.

It is silly to suggest that when ground rationalisation happened we actually had a choice. The league wasn't going to let us keep playing at Princess Park or Whitten Oval, they needed us to play at Docklands to help pay off the ground.

 

[sr36]

Not necessarily. You can start the same week as Opening Round this season (Labour Day weekend), and finish where we currently have the pre-finals bye. It is possible to rejig the fixture after 19 rounds to schedule the top 12 teams to have a bye in round 26 leading into the finals. There are actually multiple ways to do it.

Does anyone seriously think that the AFL is going to go back to 22 games, which would mean scrapping Gather Round? More games = more $$$. The AFL, clubs, and players will not support a reduction.

Hawks would be playing their final game this weekend without the pre-finals bye that every other finalist gets. Probably would have been GWS and/or Blues last year. not to mention that some teams wouldn't have had a bye since round 1-5 coming up against teams fresh of their second bye. It would make the fixture even more uneven.

No I don't think they'll go back to 22games- it'll be 22+gather round. 11 home and 11 away. There's no data to suggest that the extra travel impacts home and awy outcomes for non-Vic teams. And the extra travel disadvantage theory ignores the extra advantage of teams travelling to them.

All of that doesn't mention the biggest obstacle:

9 teams with 12 home games and 11 away games and 10 teams with 12 away games and 11 home games doesn't actually add up - so some teams would have to get disadvantage or advantaged with the formula not applying to them.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It is silly to suggest that when ground rationalisation happened we actually had a choice. The league wasn't going to let us keep playing at Princess Park or Whitten Oval, they needed us to play at Docklands to help pay off the ground.

The AFL has o be the only organisation in the world where these massive national clubs turning over multi millions of dollars sign up to deals that make them lose money.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

The entire point is that it is the Melbourne based home team who is giving up home advantage.

If your opponent is also playing away from their home, it is the nominal "home team" who are losing their home advantage, the away team has their disadvantage reduced.

Nah, scrap all that shit.

If I'm playing Norf or Hawthorn away I want to play them in Melbourne not Tassie UNLESS Collingwood also has to play them away in Tassie. Which isn't happening. You know why.

 

[doppleganger]

Nah, scrap all that shit.

If I'm playing Norf or Hawthorn away I want to play them in Melbourne not Tassie UNLESS Collingwood also has to play them away in Tassie. Which isn't happening. You know why.

I assume you are one of those gooses who think travel isnt a disadvantage if you are the home team.

It should be obvious, that playing a team on their home ground in front of their home fans where they enjoy their regular routine is a harder propsect compared to playing that team at a random ground, that isn't their familiar home ground, is not in front of their home fans, and players have travelled and dont enjoy their home game routine.

But the VICBias wowser position magically has them disadvantaged when they play a Melbourne based team like North in Tassie instead of at Marvel.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Of course, Collingwood shouldn't have to play Hawthorn or North Melbourne in an away game in Tassie, you're right, what was I thinking, MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, THERE'S NO BIAS!!!

 

[doppleganger]

Of course, Collingwood shouldn't have to play Hawthorn or North Melbourne in an away game in Tassie, you're right, what was I thinking, MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, THERE'S NO BIAS!!!

Marvel is North's actual home ground.

WC get to play North at a ground that isn't their home ground, and North players have to travel to get to.

It is North who are shafted as they give up a home game, and WC who benefit as they get an away disadvantage game replaced with a neutral away game where both teams are travelling.

North should play WC at Marvel and actually enjoy a home advantage, and WC cop the away disadvantage.

 

[doppleganger]

Could not agree more.

If you agree with the logic, you should then agree that VICBias is a nonsense, and it that it is actually non-Melbourne teams that are advantaged in H&A.

Results are clear, just look at the ladder in the 21st century.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

North should play WC at Marvel and actually enjoy a home advantage, and WC cop the away disadvantage.

This was my entire point. We should play North or Hawthorn in Melbourne UNLESS teams like Collingwood also have to play them away at Tassie. Which we all know will never happen.

Then you got all worked up for some reason

 

[sr36]

Of course, Collingwood shouldn't have to play Hawthorn or North Melbourne in an away game in Tassie, you're right, what was I thinking, MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO, THERE'S NO BIAS!!!

No qualms about going to Tassie if North or Hawthorn want to play their home game against us there. Seems pretty unlikely though.

Or are you suggesting that Nth and Haw should have no say in where they play their home games?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I'm starting to understand how Collingwood fans have kept this thread going for so long.

If Hawthorn/North play games in Tassie, then all teams should have to play them there. But that's not going to happen. You know why. Far out.

 

[LoungeLizard]

This was my entire point. We should play North or Hawthorn in Melbourne UNLESS teams like Collingwood also have to play them away at Tassie. Which we all know will never happen.

Then you got all worked up for some reason

I think you're serious.
Typing in caps is considered yelling and you're accusing someone else of getting worked up.

As for the status quo you keep going on about, I couldn't care less if they send us to the moon to play games, I don't think I've seen many Collingwood supporters who care, I think you have voices in your head telling you furphies, get checked out.

 

[doppleganger]

This was my entire point. We should play North or Hawthorn in Melbourne UNLESS teams like Collingwood also have to play them away at Tassie. Which we all know will never happen.

Then you got all worked up for some reason

Worked up?

Why would a Collingwood fan be upset about playing North away from Marvel, their actual home ground?

It is easier to play a team away from their home ground.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'm starting to understand how Collingwood fans have kept this thread going for so long.

If Hawthorn/North play games in Tassie, then all teams should have to play them there. But that's not going to happen. You know why. Far out.

When you get to play a home game against North at Marvel, then you may have something to yell about.

The AFL won't send Collingwood to Tassie, because we make them money playing in Melbourne, West Coast don't, that's the gist of it.
I know you think that's not fair, but even if they did send us to Tassie, it's not disadvantaging us and it won't stop you going there either.

 

[doppleganger]

I think you're serious.
Typing in caps is considered yelling and you're accusing someone else of getting worked up.

As for the status quo you keep going on about, I couldn't care less if they send us to the moon to play games, I don't think I've seen many Collingwood supporters who care, I think you have voices in your head telling you furphies, get checked out.

Yep, not many Pie fans who really care where our away games are.

Give us our 11 home games at the G and then hit the random button for away games.

Currently we don't even get that.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I'm starting to understand how Collingwood fans have kept this thread going for so long.

There's an undeniable bias in fixturing where certain teams do not travel to certain locations.

Now Collingwood fans, spend a page or two replying to each other about why there's nothing wrong with that

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yep, not many Pie fans who really care where our away games are.

Give us our 11 home games at the G and then hit the random button for away games.

Currently we don't even get that.

Poor AB is getting worked up yelling at the clouds literally.
Just have to go look at our record at Geelong to see we are better off playing them there than the MCG, the MCG is not our best ground to play on, we have a shit record there.