Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Carringbush2010]

Having a tough few days mate?

Nup, incorrect assumption on your part

How do you not understand people wanting to follow the top tier of the game?

I do understand that, I've clearly stated, repeatedly. What I don't understand if one (not necessarily you) perpetually complains about the league (or pointing out flaws as you put it) and yet insists that this is the only league (or main one) that they'll follow.

If one doesn't like it, it doesn't make sense to follow it.

And again what is wrong with pointing out flaws of the league and how it operates if thats what we think?

Never said there was anything wrong with pointing out flaws, read above

Just don't understand why this bothers you so much.

It doesn't, just pointing out it is impractical to dislike something yet loyally follow it.

 

[sr36]

Funnily enough it actually used to be winner of PF1.

Patrick Keane sent this tweet in the lead up to the 2015 GF:

View attachment 2100365

At the time, this was in keeping with every other year under the current system that the minor premier had not won directly through:

• 2002 Collingwood (4th) vs Brisbane (2nd)
• 2003 Bris (3) vs Coll (2)
• 2005 Syd (3) vs WCE (2)
• 2006 Syd (4) vs WCE (1)

But then for some reason they backflipped in 2016. Sydney (1) lost their QF and so ended up on the bottom half of the draw. GWS hosted PF1 and lost to the Bulldogs, so under that convention the GF should’ve been WB v Syd. And indeed the early versions of the AFL record were printed that way:

View attachment 2100369

Nobody knows why this decision was made, and no announcements were made at the time.

A couple years down the track in 2018, Keane then made this tweet, which clearly contradicts his earlier one from 2015:

View attachment 2100370

And it’s been that way ever since. 2019 would’ve been GWS vs Richmond under the old convention.

So basically, the AFL makes up the rules as they go.

Typical Sydney bias. Dogs version got silver, but they not only changed the rules to make it Sydney, but upgraded it to Gold once it became the Swans.

 

[Bushdid911]

Because Hawthorn is getting the advantage in this instance and you know, they're Victorian.

Hawthorn are more victorian than bulldogs? I didn't know there was levels of victorianness

 

[Carringbush2010]

You look different to your avatar

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Hawthorn are more victorian than bulldogs? I didn't know there was levels of victorianness

Lol, they arent, but 1 vic club getting an advantsge over another vic club isnt proof of no #VICBIAS either.

 

[doppleganger]

Yes, doppleganger knows all, so it must be the AFL that gets it wrong on those occasions.

Pretty obvious that AFL House does get plenty wrong, and frequently make things up and change their minds on issues as they go along.

They still cant implement a proper clash jumper policy.

So is it really surprising that they flip flop and change approach to who is listed as the "home team" just to appease Sydney?

And as they changed for that year, they then come up with a woeful explanation that is inconsistent with the approach to the finals series.

 

[sr36]

Lol, they arent, but 1 vic club getting an advantsge over another vic club isnt proof of no #VICBIAS either.

True. Hawks have an easier path through than a non Vic side would get and Dogs have a more difficult path through.

Nets out the same in the long run as Dogs would be the beneficiary as often as theyre the loser like they are this year. Except the issue for the purely marvel teams like the Dogs is that it's never at their actual home ground.

So your theory works if you're looking at it as Vic vs Non-Vic, but Vic teams don't view it that way. We view it as 18 teams against each other. To us Dogs get a raw deal in both the short and the long run- they're the disadvantaged club and the MCG tenants get a good deal. No matter where they finish, Dogs get an away final.

 

[Ross]

Dogs are playing a home final at the MCG, a ground where they've played once since the opening game of the season. The last time Dogs played there was round 10, which means 16 teams have played at the MCG more recently than Dogs. Only Fremantle played there less recent. How's that for #VICBIAS?

Dogs haven't even played a 'home' game at the MCG since 2009 on top of that. You guys have every right to be absolutely filthy about this, especially when Dillon was quoted as saying they never considered moving Sydney's final to a bigger nearby ground because Sydney plays their home games at the SCG.

Some people have tried to frame the complaints about playing home finals at the MCG as purely being a big Geelong sook but that's only because we've pretty much been the only team getting a raw deal from it over the last dozen years. At least they've been able to justify it by falsely claiming that we ask to play home games at the MCG, they can't do that with the Dogs.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Geelong should absolutely play all their home games in Geelong.

 

[sr36]

Geelong should absolutely play all their home games in Geelong.

I wouldn't want it changed if I was telling cats. The granny us at the g. Three home games at the g pus usually a couple of away games plus finals there puts them in a better position to win flags as that's where they're played.

I actually think they should have won one or two more between 2011 and 2022, but they played too defensive a style that worked well on their narrow long home ground.

 

[PowerBaz]

I wouldn't want it changed if I was telling cats. The granny us at the g. Three home games at the g pus usually a couple of away games plus finals there puts them in a better position to win flags as that's where they're played.

I actually think they should have won one or two more between 2011 and 2022, but they played too defensive a style that worked well on their narrow long home ground.

So what you’re saying is there is an advantage to playing a lot of games at the G?

 

[FootyLad0]

I wouldn't want it changed if I was telling cats. The granny us at the g. Three home games at the g pus usually a couple of away games plus finals there puts them in a better position to win flags as that's where they're played.

I actually think they should have won one or two more between 2011 and 2022, but they played too defensive a style that worked well on their narrow long home ground.

If you look at some of those Cats sides especially around 2014-2018 we massively overachieved with the players we had.

 

[sr36]

So what you’re saying is there is an advantage to playing a lot of games at the G?

Of course there is. When they're good enough to make it, the MCG tenants and co-tenants have an advantage over teams that barely play there. I certainly wouldn't suggest otherwise.

Just as Melbourne and then Melbourne and Richmond had an advantage there in the VFL days. The other Vic clubs just didn't whinge about it, as it was the logical venue for the Grand Final. It still is.

When you lose as many MCG grand finals to MCG tenants as the pies did when it was an away venue we only played at a couple of times a year, I might start sympathizing. At a guess, it'd be about 10.

 

[Ross]

I wouldn't want it changed if I was telling cats. The granny us at the g. Three home games at the g pus usually a couple of away games plus finals there puts them in a better position to win flags as that's where they're played.

For me, if the club wants 11 games at home then I'll back them in to ask for it. Personally, I'd be good with us doing a 10-1 split with no MCG teams getting an exemption to playing us at home. Maybe something like Hawks on Easter Monday every third year and then one of the other big MCG teams the other two. But I say that because I think we'd still end up playing 3-5 games at the MCG each year even with a 10-1 home split since we haven't played Essendon or Carlton at Docklands for years now, we'd be playing away games against six of the nine Victorian teams at the MCG plus any double-ups against those sides.

I actually think they should have won one or two more between 2011 and 2022, but they played too defensive a style that worked well on their narrow long home ground.

I'd like to think we'd have won another flag or two since 2007 if we got all our home games and home finals but it's pointless speculating which years those might have been. 2016, 2017 and 2019 are the obvious cases where we lost out on getting home finals but those are three of the years where I'm not sure we'd have been good enough to win the flag even if we had cheat ground finals.

 

[sr36]

For me, if the club wants 11 games at home then I'll back them in to ask for it. Personally, I'd be good with us doing a 10-1 split with no MCG teams getting an exemption to playing us at home. Maybe something like Hawks on Easter Monday every third year and then one of the other big MCG teams the other two. But I say that because I think we'd still end up playing 3-5 games at the MCG each year even with a 10-1 home split since we haven't played Essendon or Carlton at Docklands for years now, we'd be playing away games against six of the nine Victorian teams at the MCG plus any double-ups against those sides.


I'd like to think we'd have won another flag or two since 2007 if we got all our home games and home finals but it's pointless speculating which years those might have been. 2016, 2017 and 2019 are the obvious cases where we lost out on getting home finals but those are three of the years where I'm not sure we'd have been good enough to win the flag even if we had cheat ground finals.

To me there were flag opportunities between 2018 and 2022. But Cats didn't adjust quick enough to the Tigers style and continued with that lock it in style with ball movement that was too slow. It was Kardinia Park ball movement where the narrow ground makes it easier to lock teams in.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

What about 2013? Geelong actually got a proper home final (against a non-Vic team of course) and lost to Freo of all teams

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Where's the GF this year?

At the home of football. Always will be.

 

[sr36]

At the home of football. Always will be.

It's got easily the biggest crowd capacity. It's in the parklands where the game was invented. Its got the nostalgia and history of hosting all but 3 if the 130 or so Grand Finals. It's got a real name, but hey let's play it at some stupidly named venue - the Metricon Grand Final in front of 30,000 rather than 100,000. **** logic, **** history. **** tradition. Mamma Mia. What are people talking about?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It's got easily the biggest crowd capacity. It's in the parklands where the game was invented. Its got the nostalgia and history of hosting all but 3 if the 130 or so Grand Finals. It's got a real name, but hey let's play it at some stupidly named venue - the Metricon Grand Final in front of 30,000 rather than 100,000. **** logic, and tradition. Mamma Mia. What are people talking about?

It's already locked in until 2057. It will probably be extended again well before that. It will never move from the MCG.

 

[Ross]

To me there were flag opportunities between 2018 and 2022. But Cats didn't adjust quick enough to the Tigers style and continued with that lock it in style with ball movement that was too slow. It was Kardinia Park ball movement where the narrow ground makes it easier to lock teams in.

Yeah agreed, we weren't good enough in that period. In 2019 I think even if we beat you in a QF in Geelong and then we beat GWS in the prelim we'd likely still have lost to either Richmond or the Pies at the MCG.

 

[sr36]

Yeah agreed, we weren't good enough in that period. In 2019 I think even if we beat you in a QF in Geelong and then we beat GWS in the prelim we'd likely still have lost to either Richmond or the Pies at the MCG.

It was a strange period. Usually everyone copies the Premiers, but everyone seemed to think that what the Tigers were doing wouldn't keep working and continued on with their pre-Tigers style.

 

[PowerBaz]

It's got easily the biggest crowd capacity. It's in the parklands where the game was invented. Its got the nostalgia and history of hosting all but 3 if the 130 or so Grand Finals. It's got a real name, but hey let's play it at some stupidly named venue - the Metricon Grand Final in front of 30,000 rather than 100,000. ** logic, ** history. **** tradition. Mamma Mia. What are people talking about?

I don’t mind it at the G. But seriously Adelaide Oval has as much parklands and history in spades as the G.

 

[sr36]

I don’t mind it at the G. But seriously Adelaide Oval has as much parklands and history in spades as the G.

I live in walking distance of Adelaide Oval. Love it and the Parklands. But they're not the parklands where Aussie rules was invented. And SA gave up SANFL grand finals to move to Football Park. So it doesn't have the history or tradition or size or nostalgia. It's just not the Coliseum of footy like the G is.

 

[PowerBaz]

I live in walking distance of Adelaide Oval. Love it and the Parklands. But they're not the parklands where Aussie rules was invented. And SA gave up SANFL grand finals to move to Football Park. So it doesn't have the history or tradition or size or nostalgia. It's just not the Coliseum of footy like the G is.

I think you’ll find that was Bradman.

 

[sr36]

I think you’ll find that was Bradman.

If he invented footy he does deserve his knighthood - give him another one