Visy Poach: chickens coming home

[Old Spice]

The very extraordinary decision by Ken Wood to give the tick-off to Carlton's Visy deal with Judd, worth $200 thousand a season, may be coming home to roost very soon.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-doom-for-demons/story-e6frf9jf-1226094204738

While Wood tightened the rules surrounding 3rd party agreements with AFL support last year - knocking back Geelong's bid to retain Ablett through a deal with clothing giant Cotton-On and any effort by Melbourne to retain the services of Scully - Judd's deal was upheld on the very flaccid basis that it had already been signed off previously.

If the AFL were not in a position to negate an already existing contract, surely they would have been able to even up the ledger on the credit side by either allowing similar contracts for other clubs for the duration of Judd's deal, or have been in a position to lift ASA funds for other clubs during that period.

The underlying rationale for this decision is surely to give Carlton, as a powerhouse and fundamental team, a leg-up. I wouldn't want to see my nemesis die, but really, this goes beyond a leg-up to almost unadalterated pump-priming of a club which had mishanlded its finances and been stung for salary cap breaches. Surely the reward for dodgy financial dealings is not formalised cap breaches?

As a Collingwood fan whose club went cap in hand to the AFL in the late 90's for some respite with a $1.7 million debt, and was offered 100k for selling a game in Sydney (a deal which we told them to stick up their dates), the idea that Carlton should be given such a financial gift is outrageous.

I'd have been okay with the AFL offering to assist Carlton to pay down their debts, as I would with any club, because I'm a sentimentalist. But giving them a filip of 200k in the TPP/ASA situation p.a. is beyond the pale.

While Carlton were not a threat to the flag, it didn't seem to ruffle too many feathers. But the effective excising of Judd's Visy income from the realm of the Salary Cap and Additional Services Agreement, means that they have an unfair advantage in seeking to lure other players.

That the Pies are having to parley with Carlton for Dawes services is a direct result of this shabby agreement. If the Pies manage to hold Dawes, that is by no means the end of the matter. I'd expect carlton to make a serious play for players likle Goddard or others when Free Agency comes into play at the end of next year.

What is the care factor on this issue?

 

[huggy_b]

You'll never see another deal like that again.

As much as I dislike Carlton, I think the AFL realised they smacked Carlton a bit hard and they virtually crippled the club with a stroke of the pen. They needed to be punished for rorting the system, but in retrospect the punishment was pretty severe. I think this is the swing back correction.

He had a 5 year deal right (?) which will be finished at the end of next year and everything should be back to equilibrium??

 

[NAUGHT5]

There were over 100 third party deals in the league last year. So i'm assuming there is still plenty of active third party deals right now. Now they're cracking down so it will be harder to create new ones.

There's probably not much anyone can do about the existing deals.

 

[Mop]

As a West Coast fan who was bitterly disappointed to say the least when Judd left, the whole Visy thing wreaked of sham from the start.
The sheer double standards involves boggles the mind and further reinforces the fact that the AFL isn't one for equal standards.

 

[Kong]

This'll fall on deaf ears.

 

[Jade]

This'll fall on deaf ears.

True, good read though.

 

[King Elvis]

Legalised cheating

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

[youtube]39P2E_zHeSk[/youtube]

 

[Old Spice]

You'll never see another deal like that again.

As much as I dislike Carlton, I think the AFL realised they smacked Carlton a bit hard and they virtually crippled the club with a stroke of the pen. They needed to be punished for rorting the system, but in retrospect the punishment was pretty severe. I think this is the swing back correction.

He had a 5 year deal right (?) which will be finished at the end of next year and everything should be back to equilibrium??

There's the Carlton contract then there's the Visy deal. Who knows how long that lasts, but even presuming it ends at the end of next year, at the very dumbest reckoning, that's another 200k for one year.

The reality though is that Carlton will have been able to front load contracts during the whole duration. That amount of money sloshing around every year is nothing to sneeze at when you are seeking to nab players or fend off advances from the expansion teams.

And while we all realise that it's ending, the point remains that the AFL could very easily have compensated for that by giving every other club the capacity to spend another 200k per year if they felt they couldn't dissolve that contract. How it got signed off in the first place is rank.

It also means that Carlton would have done some very creative accounting. Front loading contracts for stars like Murphy, knowing that post 2012, the funds would dry up.

 

[Silvagnis]

As a West Coast fan who was bitterly disappointed to say the least when Judd left, the whole Visy thing wreaked of sham from the start.
The sheer double standards involves boggles the mind and further reinforces the fact that the AFL isn't one for equal standards.

You're crying poor about Judd's agreement and additional services agreements?

Footy's 'also-rans' see a bright future

Scott believes the playing field is not level because of the high number of additional service agreements being used by the richer clubs to pay their players. He said West Coast had more than 50 ASAs this year, cash-poor North Melbourne just four. ''The AFL are talking to us about that. The commission and the executive are acutely aware of that issue and they're doing an enormous amount of work in the area. The CBA needs to be sorted out before we can start planning for next year. That's critical, but I think all parties know that,'' he said.

Footy's 'also-rans' see a bright future

That's almost as funny as Essendon supporters with their history commenting on the salary cap. Perhaps Essendon can ask the AFL if they can keep Hurley by purchasing an imaginary website like they did with Lloyd and Hird.

The Suns and Giants have just been handed the biggest free kicks in history, yet Carlton's the one you have to worry about.

The Pies must have a generous salary cap if they can afford to sign Jolly and Ball in the one off season.

 

[Twocents]

Another illogical and ignorant post from one of the many Collingwood haters…

Without the benefit of Collingwood’s generosity and loyal supporter base, football teams with fair weather supporters like Melbourne will cease to exist in the near future.

Supporters like yourself seem to have a propensity to shoot your mouth off over absurd conspiracy theories that the AFL is somewhat of an extension of the Collingwood football Club Management.

The category of supporter group you fall into cannot seem to differentiate or separate your bias and obvious inability to comprehend the reasoning in the decisions implemented by the AFL.

This thread is about Carlton and the current salary cap issues only highlighted by a Collingwood supporter. How about posting something that doesn’t highlight your shortcomings as an impartial football fan?

 

[blueboy25]

As a West Coast fan who was bitterly disappointed to say the least when Judd left, the whole Visy thing wreaked of sham from the start.
The sheer double standards involves boggles the mind and further reinforces the fact that the AFL isn't one for equal standards.

The Eagles had organised a very large third party deal courtesy of the Satterly Property Group to try and retain Judd. Would you consider that deal a sham if it helped him stay at the club?

 

[garlic munchers]

I always wondered where Pratt filed the Judd deal?

Perhaps it was under E for Escort given his success in this regards, just that he was sticking to all other clubs and supporters just not one.

Edit: I just realised that it was called the NAB Cup in 2007 and not the Escort Cup (showing my age).

 

[Old Spice]

You're crying poor about Judd's agreement and additional services agreements?

Footy's 'also-rans' see a bright future

The Pies must have a generous salary cap if they can afford to sign Jolly and Ball in the one off season.

The Eagles can run 100 ASA agrrements if they like. The number doesn't matter so long as they don't go outside the dollar value.

And this is the very issue. Judd's deal has been excised and counted out of the TPP and ASA deals as an exception that no-one else enjoys.

The Eagles had organised a very large third party deal courtesy of the Satterly Property Group to try and retain Judd. Would you consider that deal a sham if it helped him stay at the club?

Firstly, was it outside of the ASA provisions and secondly, if it was, was it ever consumated?

 

[Jentleman Geff]

How are the chickens coming home to roost?

 

[le dominateur]

Collingwoood supporters complaining about a level playing field.

 

[MaddAdam]

We don't need the AFL to give us maximum exposure to become a powerhouse. Our maximum exposure comes from the fact that we ARE in fact, a powerhouse. We can't help who coat-tail rides. Meh.

Hmmmm. After eschewing Friday nights after playing the first one Collingwood spend the late 80s and early to mid 90s in moribund financial position.

McGuire - a TV man - comes in, lobbies the AFL to "maximise" the fixture and HEY PRESTO! Collingwood are rolling in bucks.

 

[mediumsizered]

Collingwoood supporters complaining about a level playing field.

The ironing is delicious. Apparently it was okay for a little bit of draft tampering to occur in 2009 though.

 

[Madblue]

The very extraordinary decision by Ken Wood to give the tick-off to Carlton's Visy deal with Judd, worth $200 thousand a season, may be coming home to roost very soon.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-doom-for-demons/story-e6frf9jf-1226094204738

While Wood tightened the rules surrounding 3rd party agreements with AFL support last year - knocking back Geelong's bid to retain Ablett through a deal with clothing giant Cotton-On and any effort by Melbourne to retain the services of Scully - Judd's deal was upheld on the very flaccid basis that it had already been signed off previously.

If the AFL were not in a position to negate an already existing contract, surely they would have been able to even up the ledger on the credit side by either allowing similar contracts for other clubs for the duration of Judd's deal, or have been in a position to lift ASA funds for other clubs during that period.

The underlying rationale for this decision is surely to give Carlton, as a powerhouse and fundamental team, a leg-up. I wouldn't want to see my nemesis die, but really, this goes beyond a leg-up to almost unadalterated pump-priming of a club which had mishanlded its finances and been stung for salary cap breaches. Surely the reward for dodgy financial dealings is not formalised cap breaches?

As a Collingwood fan whose club went cap in hand to the AFL in the late 90's for some respite with a $1.7 million debt, and was offered 100k for selling a game in Sydney (a deal which we told them to stick up their dates), the idea that Carlton should be given such a financial gift is outrageous.

I'd have been okay with the AFL offering to assist Carlton to pay down their debts, as I would with any club, because I'm a sentimentalist. But giving them a filip of 200k in the TPP/ASA situation p.a. is beyond the pale.

While Carlton were not a threat to the flag, it didn't seem to ruffle too many feathers. But the effective excising of Judd's Visy income from the realm of the Salary Cap and Additional Services Agreement, means that they have an unfair advantage in seeking to lure other players.

That the Pies are having to parley with Carlton for Dawes services is a direct result of this shabby agreement. If the Pies manage to hold Dawes, that is by no means the end of the matter. I'd expect carlton to make a serious play for players likle Goddard or others when Free Agency comes into play at the end of next year.

What is the care factor on this issue?

Yawn......

 

[MaddAdam]

This is like an argument between Communists about whether Mao or Stalin was better/worse.

 

[Max zero]

You'll never see another deal like that again.

As much as I dislike Carlton, I think the AFL realised they smacked Carlton a bit hard and they virtually crippled the club with a stroke of the pen. They needed to be punished for rorting the system, but in retrospect the punishment was pretty severe. I think this is the swing back correction.

He had a 5 year deal right (?) which will be finished at the end of next year and everything should be back to equilibrium??

They engaged is systemic and deliberate cheating over a number of years. Look what happened to the Storm and then compare it to how lightly Carlton got off.

They deserved everything they got.

 

[Old Spice]

The ironing is delicious. Apparently it was okay for a little bit of draft tampering to occur in 2009 though.

By a little bit do you mean none? As I understand it EVERY recycled draftee is legally able to state their preferred wage. I also am led to believe that there were 29 picks before we picked up Ball. He could easily have been picked up by Brisbane or Melbourne who expressed interest. In fact, anyone who was willing to pay his wage might have picked him up.

That's quite different to ONE club having an extra 200k p.a. capacity over every other club. Stop me if I'm wrong.

 

[jacko57]

You'll never see another deal like that again.

As much as I dislike Carlton, I think the AFL realised they smacked Carlton a bit hard and they virtually crippled the club with a stroke of the pen. They needed to be punished for rorting the system, but in retrospect the punishment was pretty severe. I think this is the swing back correction.

He had a 5 year deal right (?) which will be finished at the end of next year and everything should be back to equilibrium??

Much the same as an ump making a shocker of a decision, then squaring up at the next opportunity with an equally bad call the other way.

 

[Old Spice]

Hmmmm. After eschewing Friday nights after playing the first one Collingwood spend the late 80s and early to mid 90s in moribund financial position.

McGuire - a TV man - comes in, lobbies the AFL to "maximise" the fixture and HEY PRESTO! Collingwood are rolling in bucks.

I'll be very generous and say that's a glib and not bizzare analysis / response to the question.

I think your saying Eddie had Machiavellian powers of manipulation which made Collingwood a powerhouse. In which case we'll soon expect Brayshaw to turn North into a behemoth of its own.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

This is like an argument between Communists about whether Mao or Stalin was better/worse.

I'm sure Old Spice indulges such debate often.