stupidlikeafox
All Australian
There are degrees of doping, yes.
Armstrong is another level to EFC players, yes.
However, there is a black and white line and that has been crossed in this instance (i.e. can't be half pregnant).
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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Play Nice WADA v Essendon 34: Guilty, 2 Yr Susp. (backdated to Mar 2015). Affects 17 current AFL plyrs.
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There are degrees of doping, yes.
Armstrong is another level to EFC players, yes.
However, there is a black and white line and that has been crossed in this instance (i.e. can't be half pregnant).
Oh look a blue car *disappears off into the distance*
They cheated and they still couldn't win the premiership, makes the whole thing laughable really.
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
At the time the AFL said that line they were very clear to say it was for governance issues.
Yes we know that it wasn't just for that, but it is very reasonable to now demand the AFL take action on actually being found guilty OR admit publicly they lied about it being governance only AND then all the commission from 2013 stands down.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
If clubs are required to keep ASADA constantly informed on player locations (residence, holiday locations,etc), why on earth aren't they required to inform of what supplements/medications the club has administered to the players?
I know there's a requirement on the player but why not have the clubs do it too? (even if just for expediency)
I know there's a requirement on the player but why not have the clubs do it too? (even if just for expediency)
- Apr 18, 2015
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- PAOK of SALONIKA LIVERPOOL
Hird has a calm intelligence and presence that can suck anyone in.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
If someone makes a movie about this episode it should be called "Hirdtown".
Couldn't believe the shit Tanner was spinning about him yesterday.
- Feb 12, 2010
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The biggest lie exposed in all of this - the players cooperated fully with the investigation. Every day we were told there would be no games missed because the darling angels cooperated. And this whole time Jab and Co is keeping the secret that players dodged writing thymosin on the doping control forms. What lying sacks of crap.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,405
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- AFL Club
- Collingwood
It probably goes deeper than that.
Way back at the beginning, they were saying "the players are being fully cooperative" when those saying that knew it was a lie
We were being conditioned way back then, the question is, by whom
One thing is fairly clear now.
The court case to get the evidence quashed, they knew it was damning.
The EFC fans on here got that one wrong big time.
- Feb 21, 2006
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- Turtles NYJets Celtics Spurs Fake Sports
Watching the panel shows last night and reading about the CAS outcome yesterday I had the same feelings. The punishment had to happen for the sake of the sport.
But it got me thinking about which other clubs may have been implicated in different circumstances. I have no doubt that if the same kind of investigation was run over several other clubs they would be in trouble including clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong, West Coast and yes, my own Melbourne (who were implicated in texts between Bates and Dank).
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
These days Robbo can't even express a coherent thought. That could've been a really interesting interview, but time and time again Gil was waiting for an actual question and Robbo just spewed jibber.
He's been good to laugh at and all during this saga but it's time they replaced Robbo. He is seriously bloody useless.
Crankyhawk
Hall of Famer
Yes because they would be dealing with the AFL tribunal and its insistence on the chain of events rather than the "cable" of evidence strand approach.
- Jun 24, 2014
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Interesting that Tim Watson was asked directly 'why didn't the players declare the substances on (the control forms) when asked to by ASADA in 2012' (I'm paraphrasing slightly). He totally dodged the question, just said there were 'reasons for that' but didn't elaborate.
For mine it's perhaps the most damning point from the CAS finding and I haven't heard anyone directly employed by EFC, or its associates even try to address this.
For mine it's perhaps the most damning point from the CAS finding and I haven't heard anyone directly employed by EFC, or its associates even try to address this.
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
it's staggering
It was a 2 year suspension backdated to March 31 2015. Technically means Culbert is correct.
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,405
- 35,588
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
As CAS said on that point "it was fatal"
Tracey Holmes on 3AW right now, rightfully being called out as a cringeworthy James Hird sympathiser with some of the uncomfortable rhetoric she's using. James Hird is a victim of the mafia media! Tune in to her special interview on Sunday to hear "the real truth!"
Spare me.
Spare me.
- Jan 12, 2011
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Did anyone catch that arse clown Stephen Peak on SEN last night.
Someone told me this idiot is a Barrister, FMD!!
Someone told me this idiot is a Barrister, FMD!!
That is a very good point you make.
2015 should be wiped from the books.
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nobbyiscool
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 11, 2006
- 21,569
- 23,956
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- Tasmania
I don't understand this notion that Armstrong is a different level to Essendon players.
- there was systematic doping in both cases.
- there were pharmacological experiments in both cases in the apparent endeavor to be "cutting edge".
- in both cases they were gaining an unfair competitive advantage.
- both spent years lying at every turn to cover up what had gone on.
- both have spent years making excuses ("everyone was doing it"/"we don't know what we took but we know it wasn't the banned ones").
- both have apparently bullied others to prevent an unfavorable narrative.
Why is there this determination that it's on different levels to Armstrong? It is absolutely on the same level.
If there are any Essendon supporters reading this ...
If you feel hard done by, just go and read the AFL/WADA code. Not only are the rules clearly laid out, the intention is clearly laid out as well. Basically, if you come within a whiff of any doping product you can be done. If you order a doping product online but don't receive it, you can be done. If you're in the same room as someone who is doping, you can (probably) be done. On the other hand, if you're not in the room you said you'd be and ASADA come knocking for a sample, you can be done. And so it goes.
The rules are in place to avoid any of the kind of "the dog ate my homework" or "honest gov, I didn't know what I was taking" or even "we can't remember what we took" or "they told me it was OK" excuses. If any of those circumstances apply to you and prohibited substances were involved ... you can be done. Probably.
If you've followed any doping cases in the past (e.g. cycling), this case was about as open and shut as it gets. People have had careers ended for less. So, forget about witch hunts and political interference and ASADA incompetence and any other conspiracy theory you might have. The rules are as clear as day, and just as clearly, the players fell foul of them.
If you feel hard done by, just go and read the AFL/WADA code. Not only are the rules clearly laid out, the intention is clearly laid out as well. Basically, if you come within a whiff of any doping product you can be done. If you order a doping product online but don't receive it, you can be done. If you're in the same room as someone who is doping, you can (probably) be done. On the other hand, if you're not in the room you said you'd be and ASADA come knocking for a sample, you can be done. And so it goes.
The rules are in place to avoid any of the kind of "the dog ate my homework" or "honest gov, I didn't know what I was taking" or even "we can't remember what we took" or "they told me it was OK" excuses. If any of those circumstances apply to you and prohibited substances were involved ... you can be done. Probably.
If you've followed any doping cases in the past (e.g. cycling), this case was about as open and shut as it gets. People have had careers ended for less. So, forget about witch hunts and political interference and ASADA incompetence and any other conspiracy theory you might have. The rules are as clear as day, and just as clearly, the players fell foul of them.
evo
Let's hit the f*ken road!
Absolutely.
It's about the closest evidence you can get to a sure thing that there was intention to cheat by the players.
- Aug 20, 2010
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Agreed. There is no defence to it. Also the fact that they all had blood tests for no medical reason other than it was related to taking TymosinB4. That's how I read the judgment anyway.
