Play Nice WADA v Essendon 34: Guilty, 2 Yr Susp. (backdated to Mar 2015). Affects 17 current AFL plyrs.

[Jars458]

and the truth would be nice to hear, particularly as CAS all but called Jobe a liar

When did they do that?

 

[LoungeLizard]

I don't understand this notion that Armstrong is a different level to Essendon players.

- there was systematic doping in both cases.
- there were pharmacological experiments in both cases in the apparent endeavor to be "cutting edge".
- in both cases they were gaining an unfair competitive advantage.
- both spent years lying at every turn to cover up what had gone on.
- both have spent years making excuses ("everyone was doing it"/"we don't know what we took but we know it wasn't the banned ones").
- both have apparently bullied others to prevent an unfavorable narrative.

Why is there this determination that it's on different levels to Armstrong? It is absolutely on the same level.

The difference being:
Armstrong sought out the drugs, IMO Hird sought the drugs out for the players and told them to shut up.
I just can't understand how Hird is not getting made to tell his story.
The bloke is a stain on this game, that is the glue with Atmstrong.

 

[evo]

Is it just me or does he always seem to play some sort of game of seeing how close he can get to the guest of the show?

I swear he starts out in the audience and ends up on the guests laps.

I've spent enough time around serious drunks over the years to know thats a really common trait. Leaning in and arm grabbing is a real wino thing.

 

[Abomination]

Interesting that Tim Watson was asked directly 'why didn't the players declare the substances on (the control forms) when asked to by ASADA in 2012' (I'm paraphrasing slightly). He totally dodged the question, just said there were 'reasons for that' but didn't elaborate.

For mine it's perhaps the most damning point from the CAS finding and I haven't heard anyone directly employed by EFC, or its associates even try to address this.

It's infuriating that blatantly damning question isn't being asked of more Essendon officials. It's just this constant PR-driven garbage about how the players did nothing wrong.

Was literally EVERY journalist at yesterday's Tanner presser too inept to ask this hugely important question?

 

[STFU Donnie]

I think this in itself should put paid to any doubt regards the Brownlow-

The CAS panel labelled “wholly unconvincing” claims from captain Jobe Watson that he was doubtful of the disastrous injection regimen, pointing out he continued being jabbed until late in the season.

“Mr Watson’s explanation as to why, if he had lost faith in the program, he did not simply say that he did not intend to receive further injections, was that it was easier to just say ‘yeah OK’, was not wholly convincing ...” it said.

"wholly unconvincing" does not mean the same thing as "not wholly convincing".

 

[boffo]

you know what - if the club had come out today and said

"well - we did do the wrong thing, and we have to cop our punishment. We have been kicked out of the finals, fined, lost draft picks and our players suspended ... and that is due completely and totally to our own actions. As a club we must review what happened fully, we must hold those in authority at the time of this responsible for the way they led our club into this darkest time. We must sweep everything clean and accept responsibility for our actions before we can start fresh. We apologise to our players, and to the football going public for everything we have done, and we accept that we deserved the punishments that have been given."

then I would probably say the punishments are enough.

But for the club (and the AFL) to come out and persist with the whole 'the punishments are unfair' 'unjust' 'Hirdy is an Icon of our club' 'these are fine young men' 'the players shouldnt be punished' ... there is no responsibility.

Essendon have perpetrated the largest doping scheme ever in Australian sport. And they seem to think they have been hard done by.

Very good post.

Leadership at EFC and AFL is (still) lacking; they do need to accept responsibility and accept the outcome, learn from it.

But what will additional punishment achieve? (EFC are going to be in deep sh1t for another year anyway, with numerous law suits from their former players).

 

[sherb]

There are some brilliant posters on here.. knowledgeable and precise. How is Robbo a year 10 dropout.. chief writer of the h-s. I have never been able to read his articles.. they centre on this 80's mentality of 'gutsy football' .. his articles are so outdated.

Given it's the H-S which is employing him, I think it is makes perfect sense.

 

[legend166]

I don't understand this notion that Armstrong is a different level to Essendon players.

- there was systematic doping in both cases.
- there were pharmacological experiments in both cases in the apparent endeavor to be "cutting edge".
- in both cases they were gaining an unfair competitive advantage.
- both spent years lying at every turn to cover up what had gone on.
- both have spent years making excuses ("everyone was doing it"/"we don't know what we took but we know it wasn't the banned ones").
- both have apparently bullied others to prevent an unfavorable narrative.

Why is there this determination that it's on different levels to Armstrong? It is absolutely on the same level.

Honestly, the only difference seems to be that the the people running the doping campaign for Armstrong (Ferrari, et al) knew what they were doing and were successful. So even though the intent was the same, people view Essendon's crime as lesser because apart from Jobe's Brownlow, they didn't actually win anything.

I want to say that the funny thing is that Dank's entire scheme was pointless and had no effect anyway.....but man, you look at Jobe's 2012 season and it's pretty damning. I know players have career years and that doesn't mean they were doping, but his stats basically show everything as flat, then it jumps in 2012, then immediately drops back to pre-doping levels after 2012.

They can't let him keep that Brownlow.

 

[Number37]

Hird with the help of public speaking experts and spin doctors has 3-4 days to conjure up something brilliant to save his face and not jeopardize his business dealings outside of footy. Onyaaaaa Hirdyyyyy you beaaautyyyyy! Looking forward to you talking sh..t in your interview Saturday night.. bud.

The business world will form a queue a mile long to employ Hird for the mere fact that they would want to learn how he got away with it for so long and more importantly how someone else has taken the fall for something he should be held responsible for.

 

[nobbyiscool]

The difference being:
Armstrong sought out the drugs, IMO Hird sought the drugs out for the players and told them to shut up.
I just can't understand how Hird is not getting made to tell his story.
The bloke is a stain on this game, that is the glue with Atmstrong.

Isn't this a pretty minor distinction to classify it as being on a different level? The players were still complicit - they still lied on their forms, they still knew enough to not write it down, and they were complicit in failing to even tell the doctor.

It's pretty gutless of the AFL to avoid the whole question of Hird. I guess they're just banking on the likelihood that no one ever employs him in an official capacity again, avoiding a situation where they have to actively give him a life ban. Although it seems hypocritical that they (the AFL) tried to scapegoat Dank, they beat their chest in talking about his life ban... when, from reading the report, I would suggest that there's about 6 other guys (including Hird and Thompson) who should also be receiving life bans.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

That was the most disgusting part of the whole PC.

Talk about admitting competition rigging...

Don't worry, they'll be restored - just like Carlton were after their salary cap punishment...

Regardless of what the AFL wants Essendon will be a mess for some time - not years but decades. This kind of thing destroys a club politically, there will be factions and infighting that will keep the club from success for a while.

 

[Brentmeister]

There seem to be a lot of Essendon fans who are breathing a sigh of relief that only a fraction of the 34 are still at the club. IMO this will be a huge detriment to the club moving forward. Let's say hypothetically (and unrealistically given that some of the players have since retired or been delisted) that all 34 were still on the Essendon list. They get 12 month bans, but as they're still getting paid, so they band together in a show of solidarity and resolve to resist legal action and sit out the year and come back in 2017.

Now that there are a bunch of guys no longer at Essendon, there is no duty or responsibility to protect their club. The likes of Carlile, Ryder, Reimers, Lovett-Murray etc are now free to tee off Essendon with civil legal action.

This is just the beginning folks.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

It's infuriating that blatantly damning question isn't being asked of more Essendon officials. It's just this constant PR-driven garbage about how the players did nothing wrong.

Was literally EVERY journalist at yesterday's Tanner presser too inept to ask this hugely important question?

Not one Journo has asked "What is the point of the AFL Drugs Education/Training" if it can simply be dismissed because Club Culture takes over in these situations.
Why haven't they asked that question?

 

[lethalselbow]

Given it's the H-S which is employing him, I think it is makes perfect sense.

Robbo never lets a good pay cheque from Essendon get in the way of the facts.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Isn't this a pretty minor distinction to classify it as being on a different level? The players were still complicit - they still lied on their forms, they still knew enough to not write it down, and they were complicit in failing to even tell the doctor.

It's pretty gutless of the AFL to avoid the whole question of Hird. I guess they're just banking on the likelihood that no one ever employs him in an official capacity again, avoiding a situation where they have to actively give him a life ban. Although it seems hypocritical that they (the AFL) tried to scapegoat Dank, they beat their chest in talking about his life ban... when, from reading the report, I would suggest that there's about 6 other guys (including Hird and Thompson) who should also be receiving life bans.

It's a different level in that this is a team sport, players do follow coaches instructions.
I am not in any way excusing the players, but Lance Armstrong was the only one in charge of his destiny.
The players are guilty, sure, but the blame does not lie with them imo, it lies with Hird and co.

 

[DERIBERATE]

It probably goes deeper than that.
Way back at the beginning, they were saying "the players are being fully cooperative" when those saying that knew it was a lie
We were being conditioned way back then, the question is, by whom

By somebody who was supremely confident the case would end in the AFL tribunal where it'd be a glaring omission in the tribunal findings.

 

[Muggs]

Open letter to the "regulars" of the HTB.

Dear regulars,

I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I said mean stuff and trololo stuff over the past year. Why am I apologising? Because I have a newfound respect for you. Because all of these idiots on this board in the last 24 hours are ******* shit.

That's it.

I'm touched

And are you feeling ok? Or just a had a few to many Sojus?

 

[The 747]

The business world will form a queue a mile long to employ Hird for the mere fact that they would want to learn how he got away with it for so long and more importantly how someone else has taken the fall for something he should be held responsible for.

No, maybe the case a while ago but nobody will want to be associated with him now. There will always be a fanboy who will give him a job though, just to be in his presence.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The_Wookie any links to the press conferences? Surpisingly can't find the AFL press conference on their website. Woudl also like one to McDevitt's if you can find it.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

When did they do that?

The CAS panel labelled “wholly unconvincing” claims from captain Jobe Watson that he was doubtful of the disastrous injection regimen, pointing out he continued being jabbed until late in the season.

Mr Watson’s explanation as to why, if he had lost faith in the program, he did not simply say that he did not intend to receive further injections, was that it was easier to just say ‘yeah OK’, was not wholly convincing ...” it said.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Timmy on SEN basically saying the CAS outcome was decided before the hearing began. Essendon simply do not understand strict liability or comfortable satisfaction. Who ever has been advising them has done a terrible job of educating them. Mind you they have media mouth pieces like Robbo who can't even get the basics, like how many tribunal members there were, right.

Even when Middleton crucified them, they still went on with it.

They have surely been the dumbest club to walk the AFL earth, they even turned on the AFL, who was their only ally in any of this and whom was actively seeking to gerrymander the outcome in their favor.

 

[Nikita Blue]

The only people expecting a different result today were the Bombers, Bombers fans and people inside the AFL bubble with an inflated sense of their importance. Everyone else knew what was coming.

It reminds me of watching fox news in the lead up to the last US election and then the aftermath. Alleged 'journalists' were so sequestered in their republican echo chamber they could not even consider an Obama victory as a possibility.

 

[Mootsy]

Not one Journo has asked "What is the point of the AFL Drugs Education/Training" if it can simply be dismissed because Club Culture takes over in these situations.
Why haven't they asked that question?

Because that's do to with recreational and not sports science supplements, obviously. Bit of a difference.

 

[Dacksaredown]

Timmy on SEN basically saying the CAS outcome was decided before the hearing began. Essendon simply do not understand strict liability or comfortable satisfaction. Who ever has been advising them has done a terrible job of educating them. Mind you they have media mouth pieces like Robbo who can't even get the basics, like how many tribunal members there were, right.

Even when Middleton crucified them, they still went on with it.

They have surely been the dumbest club to walk the AFL earth, they even turned on the AFL, who was their only ally in any of this and whom was actively seeking to gerrymander the outcome in their favor.

The AFL was their ally? If this were true this shit would have been settled a long time ago.

 

[Glacier]

Because that's do to with recreational and not sports science supplements, obviously. Bit of a difference.

Its both