2nds WAFL Watch 2014 - Peel Thunder

[FreoRicci]

In whose place?

Tabs not in the same league as mayne yet, even if Mayne is out of form he contributes more than Tabs has.

And Crozier averages more than twice as many disposals and twice as many marks at AFL level this year.

And I assume Ballas will slot straight back in.

Tabs allows Mayne to do his role better anyway. He's crying out for Gumbleton to take the second defender which Tabs atm present. Clarke is no where near the foil for the second tall and doesn't know the lead up patterns well enough yet. At least Tabs offers that.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Crozier played his best football when he was in the midfield, and he had more impact than de Boer or Suban.

Taberner coming in for one of the latter makes sense.

He would get monstered next week.

 

[PapaJ]

In whose place?

Tabs not in the same league as mayne yet, even if Mayne is out of form he contributes more than Tabs has.

And Crozier averages more than twice as many disposals and twice as many marks at AFL level this year.

And I assume Ballas will slot straight back in.

I agree and disagree with you. I think Mayne's form/fitness has been so bad he should have sat out. At least last week and maybe even last night. He contributed so little even defensively.

But, on the other hand, in general, and after a couple of runs and Mayne hopefully starting to find his feet, as good as Tabs WAFL form is, I'm not sure there's realistically room for him in the team. Unless we're willing to get less defensive as a unit (taking a Suban/DeBoer out) then I can't see room for Tabs as we're setup.

 

[The Speaker]

He would get monstered next week.

If he's getting monstered it means Pavlich won't have three on him. All he needs to do is create a contest, which is so, so much more than anyone else is offering.

 

[Righteo]

4 goals in 6 games suggests otherwise.

It's called context, are you doing this deliberately? You know the games he played last year and the conditions too weren't in any way favourable for a tall forward, he did however kick 2 goals in his last AFL game which I believe is more than Crozier has managed in what, his career?

 

[Righteo]

I agree and disagree with you. I think Mayne's form/fitness has been so bad he should have sat out. At least last week and maybe even last night. He contributed so little even defensively.

But, on the other hand, in general, and after a couple of runs and Mayne hopefully starting to find his feet, as good as Tabs WAFL form is, I'm not sure there's realistically room for him in the team. Unless we're willing to get less defensive as a unit (taking a Suban/DeBoer out) then I can't see room for Tabs as we're setup.

I'm on the verge of crying here PapaJ, this is my whole point! Obviously the bolded is correct which is why we need to change how our forwards setup to accommodate him! It's not like we need any more evidence that we're struggling big time to kick a goal recently, something has to change surely. How much more potent are we going to be when Ballas comes back? Walters is still too far away to consider and then we have a bunch of mids/forward flankers as our next best options, or next most talked about.

It doesn't even need to be Taberner, Bradley will be acceptable in a couple more weeks and Ape is looking likely to debut soon as well (after he recovers).

 

[Docker82]

4 goals in 6 games suggests otherwise.

Poor sample size not to mention he'll only get better. We've got to remember what we're working with here. When was the last time a key forward drafted after about pick 5 came in and looked ready in year 1 or 2. Joe Daniher was touted by some as a potential no.1 pick if Essendon didn't have rights to him as a father son and even he is going to take time. Don't be fooled by freaks like Jeremy Cameron, key forwards will take time. Using stats like that this early in his career is not fair on the bloke at all. By that logic we may as just delist him now. He was decent against Essendon but expect him to be inconsistent.

* ignoring Jack Darling as he would've gone top 5 if he didn't get his skull smashed in.

 

[pavsbootlace]

It's called context, are you doing this deliberately? You know the games he played last year and the conditions too weren't in any way favourable for a tall forward, he did however kick 2 goals in his last AFL game which I believe is more than Crozier has managed in what, his career?

They average the same number of goals per game. Crozier's kicked 10 goals in his career to Tabs' 4.

My point is that Crozier contributes a lot more than Tabs. Happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I'm on the verge of crying here PapaJ, this is my whole point! Obviously the bolded is correct which is why we need to change how our forwards setup to accommodate him! It's not like we need any more evidence that we're struggling big time to kick a goal recently, something has to change surely. How much more potent are we going to be when Ballas comes back? Walters is still too far away to consider and then we have a bunch of mids/forward flankers as our next best options, or next most talked about.

It doesn't even need to be Taberner, Bradley will be acceptable in a couple more weeks and Ape is looking likely to debut soon as well (after he recovers).

I understand what you are saying but Tabs is not strong enough, Kep is not ready . Griffin would be a better option for marking power from what i saw today.
But remember what happened the last time Ross played Sandi, Clark and Griffin in the same side, against the Eagles too, it was.
The perfect gamble for us right now would have been Apeness. But such is our luck.

 

[pavsbootlace]

Poor sample size not to mention he'll only get better. We've got to remember what we're working with here. When was the last time a key forward drafted after about pick 5 came in and looked ready in year 1 or 2. Joe Daniher was touted by some as a potential no.1 pick if Essendon didn't have rights to him as a father son and even he is going to take time. Don't be fooled by freaks like Jeremy Cameron, key forwards will take time. Using stats like that this early in his career is not fair on the bloke at all. By that logic we may as just delist him now. He was decent against Essendon but expect him to be inconsistent.

* ignoring Jack Darling as he would've gone top 5 if he didn't get his skull smashed in.

That is not logic. That is foolishness.

Tabs and Crozier are both young with a stack of improvement left in them.

 

[pokerspiv]

That's because Sandi, Clark and Griffin are all ruckmen, not forwards. Taberner is a genuine forward who knows how to lead.

 

[Docker82]

They average the same number of goals per game. Crozier's kicked 10 goals in his career to Tabs' 4.

My point is that Crozier contributes a lot more than Tabs. Happy to agree to disagree.

You're right that Crozier offers more but we need something to kick to/take pressure off pav. Personally I think the extra tall is needed as well as dropping Mayne into De Boers role. Need someone who can hit the scoreboard. De Boer is decent depth though.

There's a role there for Tabs. He averages a goal a game this year but if there's any hint of rain he isn't worth his spot in the team.

 

[WAnchor]

I reckon we will see Clarke dropped for Griffin after that

 

[PapaJ]

I'm on the verge of crying here PapaJ, this is my whole point! Obviously the bolded is correct which is why we need to change how our forwards setup to accommodate him! It's not like we need any more evidence that we're struggling big time to kick a goal recently, something has to change surely. How much more potent are we going to be when Ballas comes back? Walters is still too far away to consider and then we have a bunch of mids/forward flankers as our next best options, or next most talked about.

It doesn't even need to be Taberner, Bradley will be acceptable in a couple more weeks and Ape is looking likely to debut soon as well (after he recovers).

But do you change the setup that much? I mean the system as a whole isn't broken, it's just not being driven well. You can't have a player like Tabs in and he only scores the odd goal every second game. He has to, just has to take a couple of contested marks and kick 1-2 goals as a minimum, otherwise he's a liability and you're better off with a mid-sized player like Croz who can at least provide some run and creativity.

The other thing is you're assuming that Tabs in would take the third man away from Pav. It just doesn't work like that. The thing that will take the third man out of the play is smarter entry - not personnel that are down there. Look at the Roos last night. Bar the last few minutes, we held strong to a spare man in defence as we usually do and in the first quarter they played like we did, just kick it vaguely to a tall fwd line and hope for the best - and we should have been up by 6 goals.

Then they started playing smarter, faster and shorter entries. They had 10 less inside 50's yet more scoring shots and, obviously a greater score. We're going in poorly into 50 and just failing to execute at key points. You don't shake things upside down when the system is basically OK and the execution is poor. If you can confidently bring somebody in to execute better, then OK, they come in. But who is Tabs going to come in for and execute better than (keeping in mind Balla is an automatic in)? Maybe Clarke, but we need the 2nd ruck?

Having rambled on like this, there's no doubting Tabs work rate and WAFL form, so if he's picked I'd back him, but I can just as easily see him sitting out for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[kp junior]

But do you change the setup that much? I mean the system as a whole isn't broken, it's just not being driven well. You can't have a player like Tabs in and he only scores the odd goal every second game. He has to, just has to take a couple of contested marks and kick 1-2 goals as a minimum, otherwise he's a liability and you're better off with a mid-sized player like Croz who can at least provide some run and creativity.

The other thing is you're assuming that Tabs in would take the third man away from Pav. It just doesn't work like that. The thing that will take the third man out of the play is smarter entry - not personnel that are down there. Look at the Roos last night. Bar the last few minutes, we held strong to a spare man in defence as we usually do and in the first quarter they played like we did, just kick it vaguely to a tall fwd line and hope for the best - and we should have been up by 6 goals.

Then they started playing smarter, faster and shorter entries. They had 10 less inside 50's yet more scoring shots and, obviously a greater score. We're going in poorly into 50 and just failing to execute at key points. You don't shake things upside down when the system is basically OK and the execution is poor. If you can confidently bring somebody in to execute better, then OK, they come in. But who is Tabs going to come in for and execute better than (keeping in mind Balla is an automatic in)? Maybe Clarke, but we need the 2nd ruck?

Having rambled on like this, there's no doubting Tabs work rate and WAFL form, so if he's picked I'd back him, but I can just as easily see him sitting out for the reasons mentioned above.

The last game we won had Tabs in the forward line. It doesn't require a whole new game plan to accommodate him

 

[Dockernut]

Really liked the look of Jacob Ballard in that game. He could come in for Subes or DeBoer IMO, and would be an infinitely better sub than Sheridan.

 

[Ripper]

Was salim malik there today?

 

[scon]

Ballard is building nicely I reckon he's like a Colin Sylvia without Colin Sylvia.
(just to keep my talking shit quota within board requirements)
Sent from my brainfart using Yungian synapse transference.

 

[PapaJ]

The last game we won had Tabs in the forward line. It doesn't require a whole new game plan to accommodate him

Yeah, fair call. But it's not like he was the difference though. He did what he had to and certainly contributed enough to keep his spot. He then was basically a non-factor the following week in Sydney.

I guess the point I'm making is it's not like he's going to make a world of difference if he comes in. And if he does come in, and he doesn't give you that basic output that a 2nd tall should (1-2 goals, some contested marks and a reliable outlet up the wings), then he actually becomes a liability. But I stress, I'm not anti-Tabs. He's done enough to put his name in the hat, but right now he's not the fwd 50 panacea that some might think he'll be.

 

[samFFC]

He would get monstered next week.

By who?

 

[Bad Brain]

Great game by Tabs but it's his second efforts that are keeping him out of he AFL. He's a bit baby giraffe at times and loses his feet in contests which is where you see the rebound attack at AFL level.

Also great to see Mora do so well in the middle. He's exactly what we need at the moment but safety first of course.

 

[kp junior]

Yeah, fair call. But it's not like he was the difference though. He did what he had to and certainly contributed enough to keep his spot. He then was basically a non-factor the following week in Sydney.

I guess the point I'm making is it's not like he's going to make a world of difference if he comes in. And if he does come in, and he doesn't give you that basic output that a 2nd tall should (1-2 goals, some contested marks and a reliable outlet up the wings), then he actually becomes a liability. But I stress, I'm not anti-Tabs. He's done enough to put his name in the hat, but right now he's not the fwd 50 panacea that some might think he'll be.

He's no panacea, but having an ok key forward next to Pavlich makes pav's job easier, and makes the job easier for Clark/Sandi when resting forward. No coincidence that Clark looked better up forward when Tabs had the 2nd defender. Of course everyone looks better when you win

 

[pokerspiv]

I guess the point I'm making is it's not like he's going to make a world of difference if he comes in. And if he does come in, and he doesn't give you that basic output that a 2nd tall should (1-2 goals, some contested marks and a reliable outlet up the wings), then he actually becomes a liability. But I stress, I'm not anti-Tabs. He's done enough to put his name in the hat, but right now he's not the fwd 50 panacea that some might think he'll be.

The thing is, just by having you in the team he does you those things. Because Pavlich was able to do those things while we left Taberner in the square for the long kick. As a result Pav kicked a few goals from long range and some running back with the play too. Because we had another tall down there as a target which allowed Pav to roam further up the ground.

 

[samFFC]

If Hannath goes, that will be pretty much season over for him.

Griffin and Bradley to come in, plus Taberner/Apeness are preferable, hard to Hannath getting another game, barring a horrendous run of injuries.

 

[pokerspiv]

He only ever got a game because of a horrendous run of injuries in the first place. Last year we had Sandi, Griffin and Kep all out. This year we've had Griffin, Kep and Clarke out. Now they are all back I really can't see him playing another game this year.