Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[jason_recliner]

Has Hamas taken more hostages? I missed that.

 

[Kurve]

Sinwar has apparently said he didn't expect Israel's response to be this dangerous and Mosab Yousef has Sinwar saying October 7 was a mistake. So now he has regrets after saying repeatedly that October 7 was merely the start and that they would attack over and over and over again, rhetoric that Israel has used in their defence in the ICJ.

He might end up with the same fate as Gaddafi if the people get hold of him.

 

[Kurve]

They've called for the ICC to issue arrest warrants for Hamas leaders for charges including genocide.

Shelly Aviv Yeini, a lawyer for the group that organized Wednesday’s visit, The Hostages and Missing Families Forum, said the evidence includes details supporting “allegations of genocide, taking hostages, enforced disappearances, torture, gender-based violence and sexual violence. It’s a very detailed submission and I hope it can help the prosecutor in delivering justice.”

Families of hostages visit international court to urge the arrest of Hamas leaders

Former captives and relatives of hostages held since the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas in southern Israel are visiting the International Criminal Court to urge prosecutors to charge and seek the arrest of leaders of the militant group.

apnews.com

Media Bias check has 24 News as moderately conservative.

 

[Zidane98]

Sinwar has apparently said he didn't expect Israel's response to be this dangerous and Mosab Yousef has Sinwar saying October 7 was a mistake. So now he has regrets after saying repeatedly that October 7 was merely the start and that they would attack over and over and over again, rhetoric that Israel has used in their defence in the ICJ.

He might end up with the same fate as Gaddafi if the people get hold of him.

Is it true Sinwar has been arrested?

Hamas are unlikely to be able to govern Gaza in any official capacity post war. They will likely be reduced to an insurgency.

I see they are meeting Putin in Moscow. Maybe they can share legal costs for a lawyer on their genocide charges at the ICC.

 

[Zidane98]

I don't think it's random at all. Certain segments of Israel believe that land is rightfully theirs. Unfortunately, that segment is in Government and actually has the capacity to (attempt) to achieve their aims of removing the Palestinian people from Gaza and the West Bank and annexing the land.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation, no issue with the perpetrators being charged for any crimes they've committed at the ICC. They aren't however, a nation state subject to the ICJ.

No one has ever argued Hamas aren't a bad organisation, the closest I've seen is a limited number of people arguing they could be viewed as freedom fighters acting against a military occupation and oppression. Which still doesn't justify their actions.

Iran is a nation state and the ultimate driving force behind Hamas.

The ICJ are currently having genocide charges brought against Iran for these very reasons by Israel.

 

[jason_recliner]

... genocide.

Eh?

 

[Kurve]

Eh?

If they can prove intent, they might have a chance.

To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group.

United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

www.un.org

 

[Kurve]

Is it true Sinwar has been arrested?

Hamas are unlikely to be able to govern Gaza in any official capacity post war. They will likely be reduced to an insurgency.

I see they are meeting Putin in Moscow. Maybe they can share legal costs for a lawyer on their genocide charges at the ICC.

I think they have someone who looks like Sinwar but I don't think it's him.

 

[jason_recliner]

If they can prove intent, they might have a chance.

To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group.

United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

www.un.org

Maybe but intent is not the same as desire. Hamas want to destroy Israel but they have no means of doing so, so nothing they have done or can do has the intent of destroying Israel. e.g. killing 1,500 people and taking 250 hostages.

 

[Zidane98]

I think they have someone who looks like Sinwar but I don't think it's him.

If they could capture Deif & Sinwar Hamas would soon collapse.

 

[Kurve]

Maybe but intent is not the same as desire. Hamas want to destroy Israel but they have no means of doing so, so nothing they have done or can do has the intent of destroying Israel. e.g. killing 1,500 people and taking 250 hostages.

I think the allegations are that Hamas intent was genocide on October 7. It could fit imo, others believe it was ethnic cleansing.

Over 100 days in Rwanda, over half a million people were murdered mostly by machete and single shot rifle. No bombs.

 

[jason_recliner]

I think the allegations are that Hamas intent was genocide on October 7. It could fit imo, others believe it was ethnic cleansing.

Over 100 days in Rwanda, over half a million people were murdered mostly by machete and single shot rifle. No bombs.

I don't see how killing 1,500 of millions, and having no capability whatsoever to kill many more, as tragic and horrific as those acts were, could be considered even close to genocide or ethnic cleansing.

 

[Kurve]

Maybe but intent is not the same as desire. Hamas want to destroy Israel but they have no means of doing so, so nothing they have done or can do has the intent of destroying Israel. e.g. killing 1,500 people and taking 250 hostages.

They could tick all the boxes. I think it's irrelevant whether anybody is of the opinion they couldn't do it when the case is that they already have and having expressed clear intentions to repeat the Oct 7 attack over and over.

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide​

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

​

 

[jason_recliner]

They could tick all the boxes. I think it's irrelevant whether anybody is of the opinion they couldn't do it when the case is that they already have and having expressed clear intentions to repeat the Oct 7 attack over and over.

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide​

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

​

It's not an opoinon they can't destroy Israel - they can't destroy Israel. 1,500 deaths is not destruction. Having said that, Article II does state "in part", but, if ICJ doesn't find Israel is committing genocide (they're ticking a lot of Article II boxes there), it's hard to imagine they'll find Hamas guilty of the same.

 

[faible]

Iran is a nation state and the ultimate driving force behind Hamas.

The ICJ are currently having genocide charges brought against Iran for these very reasons by Israel.

Disagree.

Iran are happy to fund and assist Hamas because it's suits their ends in the region, the exact same way as the US are happy to fund and assist Israel.

If Iran is responsible for the actions of Hamas, then the US is responsible for the actions of Israel.

 

[faible]

I don't see how killing 1,500 of millions, and having no capability whatsoever to kill many more, as tragic and horrific as those acts were, could be considered even close to genocide or ethnic cleansing.

I believe it was revised down to ~ 1,200 with ~ 695 of them being civilians. Of which it would appear there's conflicting reports about how many of those civilians Hamas et al actually killed and how many Israel killed.

For clarity, since the usual suspects will pretend I'm supporting it; none of the civilian casualties are ok.

 

[Zidane98]

Disagree.

Iran are happy to fund and assist Hamas because it's suits their ends in the region, the exact same way as the US are happy to fund and assist Israel.

If Iran is responsible for the actions of Hamas, then the US is responsible for the actions of Israel.

Well this is a revealing post.


Iran are quite public in their desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. They still refuse to recognise Israel as a state. Eg

When Iran Says ‘Death to Israel,’ It Means It

Analysts too often assume that autocrats obscure the goals they wish to achieve. The historical record suggests that we should take them at face value.

www.theatlantic.com

Commander Says Iran Will Destroy Israel And Attack The US

Iran will continue its struggle until the destruction of “enemies”, the United States and Israel, the commander of its extraterritorial Qods Force said Friday.

www.iranintl.com

In contrast the US has been pursuing a diplomatic resolution for quite some time. The US does not state that Palestine is not a state and doesn't deserve to exist. Infact, the US have been pressing Israel for quite some time to reimplement a two state solution.

You might want to take a look at the 2008 deal that the US was involved in which included Israeli withdrawawl from 93% of the West Bank and a land transfer of 6.3% of Israel to Palestine in exchange for settlements in Palestine being transferred to Israel with a Gaza-West Bank safe pathway transport link for Palestinians.


Quite clearly Iran's support of Hamas is not the same of US's support of Israel. Not even close. Quite frankly, it is ridiculous to compare the two.

That's the reason why Iran are having a genocide case brought against them at the ICJ and the US are not.

 

[jason_recliner]

Well this is a revealing post.


Iran are quite public in their desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. They still refuse to recognise Israel as a state. Eg

When Iran Says ‘Death to Israel,’ It Means It

Analysts too often assume that autocrats obscure the goals they wish to achieve. The historical record suggests that we should take them at face value.

www.theatlantic.com

Commander Says Iran Will Destroy Israel And Attack The US

Iran will continue its struggle until the destruction of “enemies”, the United States and Israel, the commander of its extraterritorial Qods Force said Friday.

www.iranintl.com

In contrast the US has been pursuing a diplomatic resolution for quite some time. The US does not state that Palestine is not a state and doesn't deserve to exist. Infact, the US have been pressing Israel for quite some time to reimplement a two state solution.

You might want to take a look at the 2008 deal that the US was involved in which included Israeli withdrawawl from 93% of the West Bank and a land transfer of 6.3% of Israel to Palestine in exchange for settlements in Palestine being transferred to Israel with a Gaza-West Bank safe pathway transport link for Palestinians.


Quite clearly Iran's support of Hamas is not the same of US's support of Israel. Not even close. Quite frankly, it is ridiculous to compare the two.

That's the reason why Iran are having a genocide case brought against them at the ICJ and the US are not.

To be fair, what USA says it does and what USA does are not always the same thing. USA could force Israel to accept two states by simply cutting off aid and military support, but it doesn't. But that's a topic for a (geo)political forum .

 

[faible]

Well this is a revealing post.


Iran are quite public in their desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. They still refuse to recognise Israel as a state. Eg

When Iran Says ‘Death to Israel,’ It Means It

Analysts too often assume that autocrats obscure the goals they wish to achieve. The historical record suggests that we should take them at face value.

www.theatlantic.com

Commander Says Iran Will Destroy Israel And Attack The US

Iran will continue its struggle until the destruction of “enemies”, the United States and Israel, the commander of its extraterritorial Qods Force said Friday.

www.iranintl.com

In contrast the US has been pursuing a diplomatic resolution for quite some time. The US does not state that Palestine is not a state and doesn't deserve to exist. Infact, the US have been pressing Israel for quite some time to reimplement a two state solution.

You might want to take a look at the 2008 deal that the US was involved in which included Israeli withdrawawl from 93% of the West Bank and a land transfer of 6.3% of Israel to Palestine in exchange for settlements in Palestine being transferred to Israel with a Gaza-West Bank safe pathway transport link for Palestinians.


Quite clearly Iran's support of Hamas is not the same of US's support of Israel. Not even close. Quite frankly, it is ridiculous to compare the two.

That's the reason why Iran are having a genocide case brought against them at the ICJ and the US are not.

US just gave Israel $14bn in funding whilst they're in the midst of an (alleged) genocide.

Meanwhile they pulled funding for UNRWA.

Methinks your 'the US are always the good guys' view of world politics is lacking.

What the US say, and what the US do, are not the same thing.

 

[Kurve]

It's not an opoinon they can't destroy Israel - they can't destroy Israel. 1,500 deaths is not destruction. Having said that, Article II does state "in part", but, if ICJ doesn't find Israel is committing genocide (they're ticking a lot of Article II boxes there), it's hard to imagine they'll find Hamas guilty of the same.

The case seeks to prove genocidal intent on October 7 against people, not the state. The number Hamas killed en masse, is simply a number if it's beyond what could be termed as a mass murder.

 

[jason_recliner]

The case seeks to prove genocidal intent on October 7 against people, not the state. The number Hamas killed en masse, is simply a number if it's beyond what could be termed as a mass murder.

Yes, I understand that, and I meant it's not the destruction or intent of destruction of a race, or ethnicity, or people, but it is partial, if a very small part. I'm not arguing with you, more arguing with the claimant, doubtful that it could be judged as genocide when Israel's killing of civilians is not. Will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Well this is a revealing post.


Iran are quite public in their desire to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. They still refuse to recognise Israel as a state. Eg

When Iran Says ‘Death to Israel,’ It Means It

Analysts too often assume that autocrats obscure the goals they wish to achieve. The historical record suggests that we should take them at face value.

www.theatlantic.com

Commander Says Iran Will Destroy Israel And Attack The US

Iran will continue its struggle until the destruction of “enemies”, the United States and Israel, the commander of its extraterritorial Qods Force said Friday.

www.iranintl.com

In contrast the US has been pursuing a diplomatic resolution for quite some time. The US does not state that Palestine is not a state and doesn't deserve to exist. Infact, the US have been pressing Israel for quite some time to reimplement a two state solution.

You might want to take a look at the 2008 deal that the US was involved in which included Israeli withdrawawl from 93% of the West Bank and a land transfer of 6.3% of Israel to Palestine in exchange for settlements in Palestine being transferred to Israel with a Gaza-West Bank safe pathway transport link for Palestinians.


Quite clearly Iran's support of Hamas is not the same of US's support of Israel. Not even close. Quite frankly, it is ridiculous to compare the two.

That's the reason why Iran are having a genocide case brought against them at the ICJ and the US are not.

You do realise that offer, the 6.3 percent you mention included the 200,000 settlers wrapped around East Jerusalem and all the settlements lined up along the fertile Jordan Valley, where essentially all the water in the West Bank comes from? The 6.3 percent buzz number sounds good but it’s not.

That along with the fact that like any ‘offer’ Israel makes, Palestine would’ve had zero control over their borders, their airspace, the sea off Gaza (including gasfields) so no port and absolutely no military apart from armed police who’d have to go after who Israel told them to. That’s before you even get into the fact that again, like any offer before it, the vast majority of Palestinian refugees would be barred from coming back, even though we’re just talking Gaza and some of the West Bank here not Israel proper.

These aren’t offers that anyone can accept. I’ve been to Gaza, I’ve been to the West Bank. People would rather hang onto a sliver of hope of statehood for their kids than settle for that offered Israeli protectorate that wouldn’t be much different to how things are now.

 

[jason_recliner]

Holy S##T

Before and After satellite images showing displaced innocent civilian population are incredibly disturbing and distressing.

Satellite images of Rafah reveal the reality of more than 1 million people fleeing conflict

 

[Zidane98]

US just gave Israel $14bn in funding whilst they're in the midst of an (alleged) genocide.

Meanwhile they pulled funding for UNRWA.

Methinks your 'the US are always the good guys' view of world politics is lacking.

What the US say, and what the US do, are not the same thing.

A very misleading post, pretty much standard for you these days.


Firstly, nobody is saying the US are the good guys. All we are saying is that despite you claiming Iran support for Hamas being exactly the same as US support for Israel it clearly is not.


Iran openly calls & advocates for the destruction of Israel still to this very day. Iran does not provide humanitarian aid or defensive weapons - it only provides weapons to Hamas in order for them to attack Jews/Israel.


The US does not and has never called for the destruction of Palestinians. The US has repeatedly called for a two state solution. Blinken recently travelled the ME to gather political support on a two state solution for Israel - Palestine. What did Iran do?


UNRWA - US have suspended funding, not pulled it.


In the meantime the US has redirected funding to other organisations in Gaza such as World Food Program, UNICEF and other NGOs to assist civilians in Gaza. The senate literally just approved $1.4 billion aid package for Gazan citizens on the stipulation that is not funded through UNRWA. Let's not let facts get in the way of your story though. I do wonder though - since you consider what Iran is doing with Hamas as exactly the same as what the US is doing with Israel - how much humanitarian aid as Iran come up with for Gazans?


As for military funding - it wasn't just "given". Military aid is the economic value of military hardware that the US provides to Israel.

It comes as no shock to any who read your posts that you would conveniently ignore the fact that out of the 14 billion military aid package $4 billion funded Iron Dome. $3 billion to defensive weapon systems, $1.2 billion to Iron Beam short range missile defens, $150 million for security at US embassies and $50 million for evacuation of citizens involved in the conflict.

$1 billion of the aid package was assigned to support artillery and munitions productions.


So out of the $14 billion aid package that you are so outraged by $1 billion of it only is funding for offensive munitions.


The rest is all funding for defensive systems designed to protect Israel from Hamas committing a large scale genocide on Israeli citizens. I can see why that may be a problem for you.

 

[Zidane98]

Of course, any state is free to bring a genocide case against the United States in much the same manner that Israel is currently bringing a genocide case against Iran.