Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Jazny]

So the IDF invaded French territory, took a French citizen and is now keeping him in Israeli territory?

France now have a right to self defence and I expect 200000 bombs dropped at any moment.

Imagine comparing a minor dispute between diplomats and police officers with October 7th The state of anti-Israelis.

 

[faible]

I suppose France is Hamas now?

Israeli police arrest French gendarmes in French-owned Jerusalem compound

Israeli police entered the Eleona church site, which France has claimed as its own since 1948, and briefly arrested two gendarmes, then freed them. France's Foreign Ministry said it would soon summon Israel's ambassador.

www.lemonde.fr

Le Monde article on this.

 

[faible]

Good to see nothing has changed in the French military.

Please, do continue.

 

[DapperDon]

Imagine comparing a minor dispute between diplomats and police officers with October 7th The state of anti-Israelis.

Minor dispute sure, Israeli and IDF arrogance highlighted once again on the world stage.

also, anti-Israelis? don't lower yourself to Zidane standard of retorts

 

[ZEV]

Minor dispute sure, Israeli and IDF arrogance highlighted once again on the world stage.

also, anti-Israelis? don't lower yourself to Zidane standard of retorts

What did the IDF do here?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

240 legal experts is pretty vague.

How many were asked? What law do they practice in? What nationality are they? Who asked the questions?

Follow the link - you can sign it yourself Dr Don.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If the reports are true, then absolutely the blame for any civilian casualties that occur directly due to Hamas's use of human shields is on Hamas. Why do you think it's a breach of IHL to use the civilian population as human shields? It endangers them. The mere presence of civilians in an area does not prevent military targets from being fired on as long as the attack is proportionate.

Yes yes, we know. Human shields, military targets, proportionate.

Can you explain how a Palestinian civilian is a 'human shield' when Israel have zero qualms about eliminating them en masse? How many civilians do they need to slaughter before you are convinced of their ineffectiveness as shields?

When there are so many loyal footsoldiers assigning blame to Hamas, rather than the ones dropping the bombs, and no end in sight, even you must admit the 'propaganda value' of a 'human shield' is next to nil?

It's time to call it what it is - bullshit. You will deny it and keep saying it because you've got to cling onto something, but it's bullshit. Sorry.

'A siege within a siege': How Israel's army blocks aid to tens of thousands of Gazans

***

www.haaretz.com

Israel are systematically clearing Gaza, killing civilians, then preventing rescue and aid. There's no immediate military justification for this - but it makes sense if you're cleansing Gaza. They can't even be bothered saying there was a Hamas member on the toilet in there.

Both sides have a responsibility to protect civilians. Hamas should be facilitating civilian evacuation, not preventing it.

On what basis are the civilian population being forcibly transferred? And to where?

Nowhere is safe, no one trusts the vague and changing Israeli descriptions of humatiarian areas, which they bomb anyway. These people have nothing already - they will have less in Rafah.

You're going to tell me they're being bombed, starved and refused aid, to drive them out of these places - for their own good, aren't you. To evacuate them from an ongoing warzone. To another warzone.

Ethnic cleansing? There is no immediate plan to allow them to return, I don't think there is a suggestion it's permanent though...

We're making progress - a couple of weeks ago you were against the plan, and didn't believe it would happen.

How quickly you've switched to defending it. Amazing.

What will they return to?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Meanwhile, German's foreign minister:

Germany Sees 'No Signs of Genocide' in Gaza – Foreign Ministry Reiterates Support to Israel

While denying that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, the foreign ministry spokesperson reiterates Germany’s flow of arms to Tel Aviv.

www.palestinechronicle.com

Versus Francesca Albanese





She's just had a conference in Canada cancelled and was condemned for making anti semitic remarks.


The fact that you need to quote her says it all about your argument.

What are her anti-semitic statements Zidane?

 

[Jazny]

Yes yes, we know. Human shields, military targets, proportionate.

Can you explain how a Palestinian civilian is a 'human shield' when Israel have zero qualms about eliminating them en masse?

If Israel had no qualms about eliminating them en masse, why would Hamas use them as human shields? Why would Israel bother evacuating Jabalia camp at all? Why not just fight them with all the civilians around?

Why is the civilian death toll after a year looking like a war rather than a genocide?


If it was a genocide or Israel just killing civilians en masse with no care for proportionality as a policy, you would expect as the armed forces of Hamas were decimated more and more the rate of casualties would accelerate because Israel would have a much easier time getting to the civilians to genocide them. But the opposite seems to be happening. The more Hamas are destroyed, the less casualties per month are occurring.

We're making progress - a couple of weeks ago you were against the plan, and didn't believe it would happen.

The General's plan (or at least what I understand it to be) that I did not believe would happen hasn't seemed to have happened yet. There are reports of a version of the plan being carried out in Jabalia camp, but the IDF claims to still be delivering a dozen trucks a day to Northern Gaza. Last estimate I saw there were only about 5,000 Palestinians left in the area. Reports of large waves of Palestinians moving out to safety somewhat support this, but none of us can know for sure what is happening on the ground.

I am against any plan to starve a civilian population out of an area. I get that the alternatives are almost as bad, ie fighting in a civilian dense area. But using starvation as a tool like that, even with the aim to get them out of harm's way, is surely a war crime. If thousands of Gazans starve to death from siege tactics, that would be an absolute disgrace. Completely shameful.

Remember how you were calling it ethnic cleansing because you thought, probably because propagandists quote mine any statement they can find, that Israel would not be ever allowing them to return?

IDF distances itself from ‘no return’ remarks about north Gaza evacuees

Israeli army says officer’s comments that Palestinians will not be allowed return home were taken out of context

www.theguardian.com

How quickly you've switched to defending it. Amazing.

When have I defended the general's plan?

What will they return to?

View attachment 2160959

A war zone, unfortunately, thanks to Hamas.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If Israel had no qualms about eliminating them en masse, why would Hamas use them as human shields?

Do they though? This is an easy claim for Israel to make, as they have done for decades, but where is the evidence?

When such claims were made during Cast Lead, investigations found it to be a myth. Gazans themselves say they ignore the IDFs evacuation orders because they are shelled in the supposed safe zones. They are stuck with sick or elderly, with children with special needs.

Israel-Gaza conflict: The myth of Hamas’s human shields

What used to be a three-storey house had been turned into debris sunk into a deep crater with twisted steel rods jutting out. Twenty-six people were killed in the mostly deadly air-strike so far in this bloody conflict. Twenty-four of them were from one family, the Abu Jamaa.

web.archive.org

In Gaza, Hamas fighters are among civilians. There is nowhere else for them to go

Lines are blurred when a guerrilla war is fought in as dense a place as Gaza but the IDF's HQ is also surrounded by civilians

www.theguardian.com

Jeremy Bowen’s Gaza notebook: I saw no evidence of Hamas using Palestinians as human shields

The BBC's Middle East editor reports from Gaza.

www.newstatesman.com

What military objective are they shielding, if they are forcing civilians to remain in the north?

I wonder if you noted the several articles about Israel's systemic use of Palestinians as deliberate human shields? Like, actual human shields, forced out in front of operations? I must have missed your outrage about that.

Why is the civilian death toll after a year looking like a war rather than a genocide?
View attachment 2161010

Where are these figures from? Look well short for October, by almost 2000. You can also add 10k missing/under rubble.

If it was a genocide or Israel just killing civilians en masse with no care for proportionality as a policy, you would expect as the armed forces of Hamas were decimated more and more the rate of casualties would accelerate because Israel would have a much easier time getting to the civilians to genocide them. But the opposite seems to be happening. The more Hamas are destroyed, the less casualties per month are occurring.

I would have agreed until the beginning of October.

The General's plan (or at least what I understand it to be) that I did not believe would happen hasn't seemed to have happened yet. There are reports of a version of the plan being carried out in Jabalia camp, but the IDF claims to still be delivering a dozen trucks a day to Northern Gaza. Last estimate I saw there were only about 5,000 Palestinians left in the area. Reports of large waves of Palestinians moving out to safety somewhat support this, but none of us can know for sure what is happening on the ground.

Jabalya, Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahia.

I am against any plan to starve a civilian population out of an area. I get that the alternatives are almost as bad, ie fighting in a civilian dense area. But using starvation as a tool like that, even with the aim to get them out of harm's way, is surely a war crime. If thousands of Gazans starve to death from siege tactics, that would be an absolute disgrace. Completely shameful.

Remember how you were calling it ethnic cleansing because you thought, probably because propagandists quote mine any statement they can find, that Israel would not be ever allowing them to return?

IDF distances itself from ‘no return’ remarks about north Gaza evacuees

Israeli army says officer’s comments that Palestinians will not be allowed return home were taken out of context

www.theguardian.com

Funny how many times we've heard this since Oct 8th.



Comments taken out of context. Their actions don't reflect IDF values. Should not have been quoted.

He maybe let slip the truth, and is probably being reprimanded for it?

 

[Jazny]

Do they though? This is an easy claim for Israel to make, as they have done for decades, but where is the evidence?

When such claims were made during Cast Lead, investigations found it to be a myth.

The UN fact finding mission found they were launching rockets within civilian areas and not even giving warning to residents, they just didn't find evidence for specific intent to use civilians as human shields.

This NATO stratcom document has some damning evidence of Hamas using human shields during the time period. They aren't shy about it.

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

Tbf I have no way of verifying independently if the claims of the use of human shields in this war are true, but I find them credible.

View attachment 2161122

Comments taken out of context. Their actions don't reflect IDF values. Should not have been quoted.

He maybe let slip the truth, and is probably being reprimanded for it?

I read the comments as no immediate plan to move them back, not never move them back. Even the middle east eye read it that way from an article I read yesterday.

Where are these figures from? Look well short for October, by almost 2000. You can also add 10k missing/under rubble.

ABC's analysis of UN OCHA data.

Amid gruesome hospital scenes, the true death toll in Gaza might be much higher than we think

The reality on the ground in Gaza makes assessing the true death toll an enormous challenge, but despite that, experts say it is not only recorded honestly, but also likely an under-count.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Festerz]

Violence has erupted in the streets of Amsterdam on the eve of a scheduled soccer match before the match between an Israeli club, Maccabi Tel Aviv, and the Dutch team Ajax. Some people angered by the war in Gaza were upset that the Israeli team and their supporters had come to the city, and a protest had been planned for Thursday.

Dutch authorities on Friday were investigating what they called antisemitic attacks on Israeli soccer fans. There were also evidence of isolated anti Arab slogans being yelled out from groups of the Maccabi supporters but it was the scale and nature of the anti-semitic attacks that shocked police and officials.

The police in Amsterdam said that at least 62 people had been arrested in connection with attacks in the city, which unfolded over two tense days that saw people gather in support of the Israeli team while others protested its presence.
The Dutch police said the violence included assaults on Israeli fans by people, some riding scooters, who kicked and beat them in “hit and runs.”

Most of those arrested were later released, the police in Amsterdam said, though 10 people remained in custody as of Friday afternoon. Five Israelis who had been hospitalised with injuries were discharged, the police said, and between 20 and 30 others sustained light injuries.

Concerned about the safety of its citizens, Israel’s government warned fans in Amsterdam to stay off the streets and helped arrange at least three flights to bring Israeli citizens home — an unusual move since the national airline, El Al, normally does not operate on the Sabbath.

Amsterdam has banned demonstrations through the weekend and gave police emergency stop-and-search powers in response to the unrest, which exposed deep anger over the Gaza-Israel conflict.

The Dutch Prime Minister has condemned what he called anti-semitic attacks against Israeli football fans in Amsterdam last night.

The report from Netherlands Police :







Live updates from Netherlands Police here:

Liveblog: Ongeregeldheden rondom Ajax - Maccabi

De nacht na de voetbalwedstijd tussen Ajax – Maccabi Tel Aviv is zeer onrustig verlopen met verschillende geweldsincidenten gericht op Maccabi supporters. Op meerdere plaatsen in de stad zijn supporters belaagd, mishandeld en met vuurwerk bekogeld. ME moest verschillende keren ingrijpen...

www.politie.nl

Amsterdam Mayor confirms the antisemitic focus and violence of the attacks:

Youths on scooters targeted Maccabi supporters in "hit and runs" - DutchNews.nl

The violence against Israelis in Amsterdam on Thursday night was carried out by youngsters on mopeds who “criss-crossed the city looking for football club Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters,” city mayor Femke Halsema told a press conference on Friday morning. “It was hit and run.” “I understand that it...

www.dutchnews.nl

Antisemitic Attacks Prompt Emergency Flights for Israeli Soccer Fans

Dutch and Israeli officials said the fans had been attacked in Amsterdam after tensions flared around an Israeli team’s visit.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Zidane98]

Hamas literally live streamed themselves firing rocket barrages on Israeli civilians from a refugee tent.

You have to use mental gymnastics to say this isn't intentionally using civilians as a human shield.

There is no good reason for Hamas to fire rockets from such a location. And they openly brag about it.

The count of Gazan deaths from rocket failures is also horrific. Yet there seems to be no attempt to hold Palestine accountable for this. It's simply swept under the carpet by those who supposedly support Gazan civilians.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Violence has erupted in the streets of Amsterdam on the eve of a scheduled soccer match before the match between an Israeli club, Maccabi Tel Aviv, and the Dutch team Ajax. Some people angered by the war in Gaza were upset that the Israeli team and their supporters had come to the city, and a protest had been planned for Thursday.

Dutch authorities on Friday were investigating what they called antisemitic attacks on Israeli soccer fans.

The police in Amsterdam said that at least 62 people had been arrested in connection with attacks in the city, which unfolded over two tense days that saw people gather in support of the Israeli team while others protested its presence.
The Dutch police said the violence included assaults on Israeli fans by people, some riding scooters, who kicked and beat them in “hit and runs.”

Most of those arrested were later released, the police in Amsterdam said, though 10 people remained in custody as of Friday afternoon. Five Israelis who had been hospitalised with injuries were discharged, the police said, and between 20 and 30 others sustained light injuries.

Concerned about the safety of its citizens, Israel’s government warned fans in Amsterdam to stay off the streets and helped arrange at least three flights to bring Israeli citizens home — an unusual move since the national airline, El Al, normally does not operate on the Sabbath.

Antisemitic Attacks Prompt Emergency Flights for Israeli Soccer Fans

Dutch and Israeli officials said the fans had been attacked in Amsterdam after tensions flared around an Israeli team’s visit.

www.nytimes.com

I wonder what those Israeli soccer fans were doing in the lead up to this?

 

[Jazny]

I wonder what those Israeli soccer fans were doing in the lead up to this?

If the recent UK riots were against Jews instead of muslims you would have been the biggest Tommy Robinson supporter on twitter justifying violence against a group of people based on the alleged actions of a few.

Also, why don't you answer the question in the first tweet for us. Plenty of antisemites did in the replies to his question. Why don't you tell us why the mainstream media is "defending hooliganism"? Or are you "just asking questions"... too afraid to tell us what you really think.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

ABC's analysis of UN OCHA data.

Amid gruesome hospital scenes, the true death toll in Gaza might be much higher than we think

The reality on the ground in Gaza makes assessing the true death toll an enormous challenge, but despite that, experts say it is not only recorded honestly, but also likely an under-count.

www.abc.net.au

View attachment 2161195

If you go directly to OCHA you'll see more up to date numbers, this is missing half of October.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If the recent UK riots were against Jews instead of muslims you would have been the biggest Tommy Robinson supporter on twitter justifying violence against a group of people based on the alleged actions of a few.

Also, why don't you answer the question in the first tweet for us. Plenty of antisemites did in the replies to his question. Why don't you tell us why the mainstream media is "defending hooliganism"? Or are you "just asking questions"... too afraid to tell us what you really think.

This is what you are defending Jazny, some of the worst hooligans out there. Racist at their core.

You know full well why the mainstream media is running the same narrative that you yourself have spent 12 months parroting.

Thread by @rafaelshimunov on Thread Reader App

@rafaelshimunov: Since Maccabi Tel Aviv is trending, come and get to know its soccer/football fans who ignited anti-Arab hate and violence in Amsterdam, leading to reprisals from Arabs who were attacked (and who are...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Violence has erupted in the streets of Amsterdam on the eve of a scheduled soccer match before the match between an Israeli club, Maccabi Tel Aviv, and the Dutch team Ajax. Some people angered by the war in Gaza were upset that the Israeli team and their supporters had come to the city, and a protest had been planned for Thursday.

What a load of tosh. They were upset the Tel Aviv fans went around town tearing down Palestinian flags, attacking and burning taxis, chanting about dead children in Gaza, and looking for fights.

They chanted, whistled and cheered all the way through the minute's silence for Valencian flood victims. Any fan base would have provoked a response.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Place is cooked.

 

[Zidane98]

What a load of tosh. They were upset the Tel Aviv fans went around town tearing down Palestinian flags, attacking and burning taxis, chanting about dead children in Gaza, and looking for fights.

They chanted, whistled and cheered all the way through the minute's silence for Valencian flood victims. Any fan base would have provoked a response.

What a load of nonsense. Disturbingly you're justifying a pogrom against Jews.

Football fans have disrespected minutes of silence many times all over the world. Thisis the only instance of a pogrom being committed in response.

From the mayor of Amsterdam:

Amsterdam mayor condemns 'hit and run' attacks on Israeli football supporters

Five people were taken to hospital after violence flared up when Israeli football club Maccabi Tel Aviv was in the city.

www.bbc.com

Jews were hunted down and ran over by Palestinian supporters. From the posts in this thread you can tell which posters are supportive of this sort of behavior.

 

[Jazny]

This is what you are defending Jazny, some of the worst hooligans out there. Racist at their core.

You know full well why the mainstream media is running the same narrative that you yourself have spent 12 months parroting.

Thread by @rafaelshimunov on Thread Reader App

@rafaelshimunov: Since Maccabi Tel Aviv is trending, come and get to know its soccer/football fans who ignited anti-Arab hate and violence in Amsterdam, leading to reprisals from Arabs who were attacked (and who are...…

threadreaderapp.com

What a load of tosh. They were upset the Tel Aviv fans went around town tearing down Palestinian flags, attacking and burning taxis, chanting about dead children in Gaza, and looking for fights.

They chanted, whistled and cheered all the way through the minute's silence for Valencian flood victims. Any fan base would have provoked a response.

Calm down, Tanky Robinson!

 

[Ghost Patrol]

What a load of nonsense. Disturbingly you're justifying a pogrom against Jews.

Football fans have disrespected minutes of silence many times all over the world. Thisis the only instance of a pogrom being committed in response.

From the mayor of Amsterdam:

Amsterdam mayor condemns 'hit and run' attacks on Israeli football supporters

Five people were taken to hospital after violence flared up when Israeli football club Maccabi Tel Aviv was in the city.

www.bbc.com

Jews were hunted down and ran over by Palestinian supporters. From the posts in this thread you can tell which posters are supportive of this sort of behavior.

So you support the Israeli hooligans that were singing genocide songs on the streets of Amsterdam?

Interesting.

 

[Zidane98]

So you support the Israeli hooligans that were singing genocide songs on the streets of Amsterdam?

Interesting.

What genocide chant? Do try and stick to the facts here.

Remembering you are the person who falsely claimed that Israel did not differentiate between civilian & IDF deaths on Oct 7.

 

[Festerz]

What a load of tosh.

Not going to dispute your expertise on 'tosh'.

My posts were direct quotes and links from the the Amsterdam press, the Netherlands Police and the Mayor of Amsterdam about an event that happened over several days in Amsterdam. They provided context of what happened, including reference to 'isolated anti Arab slogans being yelled out from groups of the Maccabi supporters'.

Happy to trust their in-context balanced descriptions, as repeated in respected news outlets with reporters on the ground, of what was happening on THEIR streets and THEIR city in recent days as opposed to random social media posts lacking context or balance in relation to this specific series of events in a city.

 

[Jazny]

It's best to just wait for real information about what happened before going too hard either way. So far what we know is the Amsterdam's mayor described the attacks as antisemitic.

There are reports of Maccabi Tel Aviv fan's chanting "f* arabs" and a video from what I believe is the previous night of Tel Aviv fan taking down a Palestinian flag. I don't doubt racist hooligans will hooligan and obviously its not acceptable to be chanting racist nonsense and removing flags. I don't know if that justifies an apparently antisemitic riot though.

Hard to verify claims of Tel Aviv fans jeering through the minute's silence. The clips are like 8 seconds long, and just show something written on a screen above the ground in English about remembering Valencia flood victims. Hard to know if this was a deliberate act of disrespect towards the victims or a misunderstanding based on the video. If anyone has a longer version than the one I have seen post it in here... Not sure how this would justify violence though, but okay.

The alleged taxi attack is hard to verify. I see a video posted on twitter of some guy dressed in normal clothes hitting the bonnet of a taxi with an object. No idea if its a Tel Aviv fan or not. There are reports of a taxi being set on fire the previous night, though no reports of charges made or who actually set it on fire, but it could have been a Tel Aviv fan. Again, I am not sure how this would justify violence against all Tel Aviv fans or Jews.

People need to calm down on justifying violence against a whole fan base, nationality or ethnicity based on the actions of a few. I am happy to wait for more information to come through. But does it seem likely that this was a very targeted attack against the very specific Tel Aviv hooligans that directly provoked it? Probably not.

Based on what various leaders in Amsterdam it does seem to have been a more broad attack on anyone they found that was Jewish. But before I run around calling it a pogrom I would want more information on who the victims were, who the attackers were and why those attacks happened. Social media is full of misinfo.