Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hizbullah - Houthis

[jason_recliner]

So just to confirm, you would prefer to be a hostage than fight to your death?

EDIT: Not a judgement just seeking a different perspective

Yes. I would rather be a hostage than be dead. Life is amazing and precious.

 

[Jazny]

To what do you ascribe the decades of suffering and violence before Hamas and Hezbollah existed?

Do you mean the decades of terrorist attacks against Israel before Hamas and Hezbollah existed?

 

[Zidane98]

To what do you ascribe the decades of suffering and violence before Hamas and Hezbollah existed?

Why would we believe it ends with them?

This seems like open acknowledgement of deliberate collective punishment, which no one can plausibly deny anyway I guess.

Lebanon post independence and pre civil war was fine. Only played a very minor role in the wars declared on Israel (1948, 67, 73). The problems in Lebanon stem from radical islamists groups taking hold, most notably shia groups and Palestinian groups. Most of these non state armed groups were eventually disbaned with the exception of Hezbollah with its backing from Iran.

It is of note that Israel has generally good relations with Arab league states that are not run by radicalist groups that include wanting to annihilate Jews & destruction of the state of Israel in their mantras. This would be Lebanon 1948-1973, Jordan/Egypt since peace was agreed with both states by Israel to this day, gulf states (with the exception of Qatar).


It seems obvious that radical islamic groups that seek to establish a caliphate in the ME have been and always will be the biggest threat to peace in the ME. That currently is Iran & proxies (Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah). I'm not sure how a peace plan can be devised with these groups as Khamenei openly stated just recently that he wants the majority of Jews expelled from the ME, destruction of the state of Israel and called on all other ME majority muslim states to declare a jihad on Israel and any western influence in the ME.


That statement, also saying he would encourage Hamas & Hezbollah to continue their war on Israel, for me was absolutely outrageous.

 

[Zidane98]

Let's also be clear and honest, Zev (he) is most likely the only poster on the forum that has direct experience with Hamas and a first hand perspective on what they do to Palestinians.

I am pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. Just extremely anti-Hamas.

Sorry to hear of your direct experience with Hamas.

 

[Demons09]

To what do you ascribe the decades of suffering and violence before Hamas and Hezbollah existed?

Why would we believe it ends with them?

This seems like open acknowledgement of deliberate collective punishment, which no one can plausibly deny anyway I guess.

It ends with them because even if Israel stop they wont, the Palestinians are an ends to a means, it’s all about the destruction of Israel and Jews for these terrorists.

 

[ZEV]

Sorry to hear of your direct experience with Hamas.

Don’t be. It was in a voluntary, professional capacity with outstanding and ongoing training in a seriously high performance environment.

My heart breaks for the Palestinians living under their vicious and cruel regime.

 

[Zidane98]

Do you mean the decades of terrorist attacks against Israel before Hamas and Hezbollah existed?

I wasn't aware of this and looked into it.


Literally the day before Israel was established massacres of both sides of the war:




Plenty of other massacres in the 30s too under British mandatory rule on both sides.

 

[CM86]

What other ridiculous conspiracy theories do you believe in that you would like to discuss in a thread about war crimes?

If that's your only take away.

But fair enough, I have been very broad in my posts and I have not been sticking to specific discussion about war crimes.
I'll see myself out.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Lebanon needs support to rid itself of Hezbollah, just as the Palestinians need to be rid of Hamas. The UN has failed in its responsibility to curtail Hezbollah activity in Southern Lebanon, not enforcing their Article 1701. They have consistently failed to condemn the terrorist groups in the ME and prefer to attack the only democracy in the region.

Lebanon abandoned by international community - former PM Siniora

Fouad Siniora tells the BBC that Lebanon as a state has been kidnapped by Hezbollah.

www.bbc.com

You just copy/pasting Elon Levy in here now?

 

[Jazny]

I wasn't aware of this and looked into it.


Literally the day before Israel was established massacres of both sides of the war:


View attachment 2135932

Plenty of other massacres in the 30s too under British mandatory rule on both sides.

Yes, the list goes on and on.

If that's your only take away.

It's not, but you ignored my lengthy response to this totally baseless conspiracy theory and you continue to promote it without any supporting evidence.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I wasn't aware of this and looked into it.


Literally the day before Israel was established massacres of both sides of the war:


View attachment 2135932

Plenty of other massacres in the 30s too under British mandatory rule on both sides.

Jazny is well aware, all the way back to Irgun, Lehi, the Haganah and Plan Dalet, Deir Yassin etc.

Very dishonest reply from her.

 

[Jazny]

Jazny is well aware, all the way back to Irgun, Lehi, the Haganah and Plan Dalet, Deir Yassin etc.

Very dishonest reply from her.

Correct. Can you name some of the massacres and terror attacks perpetrated by Palestinians against Jews and Israelis?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It ends with them because even if Israel stop they wont, the Palestinians are an ends to a means, it’s all about the destruction of Israel and Jews for these terrorists.

Nah thats self-serving bullshit. Israel give up their slow theft of all of Palestine and erasure of Palestinian identity and peace can be achieved.

 

[Zidane98]

Nah thats self-serving bullshit. Israel give up their slow theft of all of Palestine and erasure of Palestinian identity and peace can be achieved.

Id hope it ends similar to the war between Egypt & Israel - Israel returning land, agreeing perpetual peace which exists till this day.

For that to happen a united Palestine with no radical islamic groups governing Palestinian territories is a must. Iran recognition would also help.

 

[Zidane98]

Egypt copped a lot of shit from the Arab league for achieving peace with Israel after being mortal enemies but it has proven to be the correct decision over time.

 

[CM86]

It's not, but you ignored my lengthy response to this totally baseless conspiracy theory and you continue to promote it without any supporting evidence.

I didn't ignore it, I read it and realised you hadn't read my post and you were arguing against points I wasn't making.

So are you telling me to stop posting because you think I'm off topic, or are you just trying to insult me because you feel I didn't show you enough respect?

 

[Jazny]

I didn't ignore it, I read it and realised you hadn't read my post and you were arguing against points I wasn't making.

You are making the point that Israelis killed a bunch of their own civilians on October 7th, which I have refuted. This is something I have looked into to a strong enough level to feel very confident that everything I posted is correct as of what is known publicly right now.

You also made the point that "It's the assumption that Israeli deaths from the IDF = Israel bad that is making most people just react instead of think".

The allegation here is I, or anyone else pushing back against this claim is due to us just "reacting instead of thinking". I have thought about it, I have looked into it, and there is no substance at all to the claims.

I do think that if Israel killed their own civilians deliberately to avoid them being taken hostage, that would be incredibly bad. It just doesn't seem to have happened. That's why all the evidence people who promote this theory will provide is out of context quotes or that the cars around the Nova festival look like they were attacked by helicopters in their expert opinion.

So are you telling me to stop posting because you think I'm off topic, or are you just trying to insult me because you feel I didn't show you enough respect?

I don't care about respect on the internet and I am happy to argue with people that hate me if that's how they feel. But at least provide evidence for your beliefs in a thread where we discuss war crimes.

 

[CM86]

The allegation here is I, or anyone else pushing back against this claim is due to us just "reacting instead of thinking". I have thought about it, I have looked into it, and there is no substance at all to the claims.

That was an unfair comment from me. I should have been more clear with my point and less inflammatory in how it portrayed some posters in this thread.

 

[Zidane98]

There is no evidence apart from a handful of Israeli civilians caught in crossfire with gun battles between Hamas/IDF of Israel killing any of their own civilians.

Not sure why it constantly gets brought up but to me it seems to be linked to downplaying what Hamas did on Oct 7.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

There is no evidence apart from a handful of Israeli civilians caught in crossfire with gun battles between Hamas/IDF of Israel killing any of their own civilians.

Not sure why it constantly gets brought up but to me it seems to be linked to downplaying what Hamas did on Oct 7.

Then why are the Israeli newspapers investigating and reporting on it?

Jazny why do you believe the Australian junket journalists, but not the Israeli journalists?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

There is no evidence apart from a handful of Israeli civilians caught in crossfire with gun battles between Hamas/IDF of Israel killing any of their own civilians.

Not sure why it constantly gets brought up but to me it seems to be linked to downplaying what Hamas did on Oct 7.

We have plenty of admissions from the people who carried out the attacks on vehicles returning to Gaza. Vehicles which contained Israelis. There is no evidence because Israel buried hundreds of destroyed cars sharpish and wont let anyone investigate.

There is also no evidence that anyone cut off a breast and passed it around either, but you are happy enough to believe such nonsense occured even without it.

 

[Zidane98]

We have plenty of admissions from the people who carried out the attacks on vehicles returning to Gaza. Vehicles which contained Israelis. There is no evidence because Israel buried hundreds of destroyed cars sharpish and wont let anyone investigate.

There is also no evidence that anyone cut off a breast and passed it around either, but you are happy enough to believe such nonsense occured even without it.

I know you have made no attempt to fact check this claim because if you did you would discover that this happened on a different day to Oct 7 and was targeting Hamas insurgents.

 

[Jazny]

Then why are the Israeli newspapers investigating and reporting on it?

Jazny why do you believe the Australian junket journalists, but not the Israeli journalists?

Read the actual story. Not the headline.

"Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target"

Breaking news: Hostages are at risk of being killed by friendly fire.

The article does not cover anything that I already covered in my refutation. It mentions the Cohen house at Kibbutz Be'eri, and that's it as far as evidence of IDF killing hostages goes. You would know this if you read the article, and not the headline.

If you think I am wrong, prove it. This time try not to just repost selectively edited propaganda.

 

[Zidane98]

Then why are the Israeli newspapers investigating and reporting on it?

Jazny why do you believe the Australian junket journalists, but not the Israeli journalists?

Investigating what exactly? Israel papers of course will publish anything that gets clicks. Especially from someone like yourself who incorrectly was posting that Israel did not differentiate between IDF & civilian victims on Oct 7.

Again, there is no evidence to support this. Nobody is at all surprised that you have made no attempt to fact check anything.

 

[Jazny]

Israel papers of course will publish anything that gets clicks.

I agree with most of your post, but disagree with the highlighted to an extent. Haaretz is a real outlet with an acceptable standard of fact checking that is much better than trash alternative media even though it has its biases. I would probably say its on par with The Guardian. Doesn't mean they get everything right, but they don't totally fabricate stories like some so called news outlets.