Was the recruitment of Lance 'Buddy' Franklin, the undoing of the Swans?

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Shadow89

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Feb 20, 2018
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A question that has been asked many times before, but is now gaining some serious traction. With Buddy's reduced input this year, due to injury, and the subsequent tumble down the ladder of the Swans, did Sydney trade away their future for the 'now'?

While undoubtedly Buddy will go down as one of the all-time greats of the game, the elusive premiership that was promised by his arrival now seems like a distant memory. With his contract increasing every year and his output not improving, in hindsight this seems like a blunder by the club that prides itself on culture - the 'Bloods' culture. Giving all that money to one man (or two if you include Tippett), whilst players like Brownlow Medalist Tom Mitchell, Toby Nankervis (premiership ruckman), Dan Hanneberry, Gary Rohan, Nic Newman and Shane Mumford were pushed out, seems to have created a situation where that once renowned culture is now showing cracks. An inability to attract big name players due to salary cap issues caused by players like Franklin (and previously Tippett), have led to circumstances where players like Mills and Parker are regressing at a steady rate. While I don't think it is solely Franklin and his pay causing this, I do think it plays some part when such a big chunk of the cap is being used for one man.

It can be argued that Franklin's recruitment increased membership, marketing and corporate profitability for the club since his arrival (he really does bring fans through the gates), but for the long-term outlook, where membership sales could drop once the Swans bottom out, has the the short-term gain been worth the possible long-term downturn? I'd argue no, but that remains to be seen.

I think the Swans have been a brilliant club, and Geelong have a good history with them (no bad blood), so this doesn't come from a place of malice. I am genuinely concerned that one of the stalwarts of the competition in terms of competitiveness, is now dropping off due to salary cap mismanagement from those in a position of power, with delusions of grandeur.

I would argue that retaining Mitchell, one of Nank or Mumford, Hanneberry and Rohan, would be preferable to 3-5 years of Franklin, and a now retired Tippett. With players like McVeigh, Kennedy, Jack, Smith, Grundy and of course Franklin coming into the twilight of their careers, it does seem to beg the question - 'where to from here?'

What are other's thoughts?

TheRednWhite Would love to know where you stand?
 
No, the Swans have been up there for so long they were bound to come down at some point. If anything IMO GWS has been the undoing of the Swans and in the future I think it will be more difficult to pull players because of this factor. No more being the sole pin up boys of Sydney.
 
I think people would feel differently if they'd grabbed two flags with Franklin, and really they were pretty close. Looked like the best team in the competition in 2014, and ran into one of the most clinical grand final dismantlings of a favourite I think I've ever seen. Then they get into another grand final two years later and are the victim of the first team ever to win a flag from outside the top 4 under the current finals system, with speculation that a week off that previously wasn't there was a big leg up in getting that done. Franklin was a big reason Sydney made those two grand finals by getting Sydney over the line in a very large number of H&A games. He played pretty well in the first one, and had an injury issue that kept him fairly quiet in the second.

On paper, without having won a flag , you're probably right, but I think that is judging the decision harshly given how close the gambit was to paying off.
 
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So far it has been a success, as an individual he has been outstanding on the field and helped us go very very close to winning a premiership. Yes he has a large contract but I'd say he has been worth it. Tippett and Reid's salaries combined would have been more than Franklin's salary over the same period and Franklin outperformed both of them put together. So in isolation Franklin takes a big chunk but he has been worth every cent.

Of the players that left that you mentioned, Mitchell is the only frustrating one. Our ruck situation hasn't been great so it would have been handy to keep Mumford or Nank but we made two GF's without them and a lack of ruckman wasn't the reason we lost the GF's.

The undoing of the Swans is time basically. We have been up for so long that at some point we had to fall. We've lost a lot of experience in the midfield and defense and we are now carrying too many young players to be competitive.
 
I think the question is legitimate. I am certainly glad the Hawks didn't agree to that contract... and it has years to run while Buddy ages.

Yes, the Swans made two GF's. But they were thereabouts anyway and have turned over a lot of talent, some priced out. I think depth on the list wins you flags.

Still, I would have loved to have seen him play live every week, and it was good for growing football in the northern states.
 
No

We ran into one of the greatest teams of the modern era in 2014, and should've won 2016. Had we won one or both of those this conversation wouldn't be taking place.

Buddy has done everything on and off the field to ensure the club is a success and from a personal point of view its been a privilege to get to watch him on a weekly basis for my club

Obviously the GF losses weren't great, and we have lost players, but I don't think you could call it a failure
 
Retain Rohan? It wasnt like the was wanted by sydney, he went for pick 61 not first round pick swaps.

Retain Hannebery? The guy who's been absolutely cooked for the last 2 years and wanted to go back to Victoria?

Retain Nankervis? He wanted to leave the swans, Swans offered him the exact $$$ Richmond offered

You could argue it only really pushed out Mumford, who was retired last season so i dont think that push would of helped them right now, and Mitchell who has really only exploded and become elite after sydneys window has closed. However you have a lot of incorrect statements in your post about guys leaving for money. Rohan had never strung 5 games together of consistency. Paying Rohan or Hanners a cent over what they were getting would of been madness. Sometimes its great for clubs to just cut a loss for both club and player. Rohan obviously has excelled in a new enviroment, good on him. Hanners has broken down again, luckily saints dont seem to need him

As for the twilight, Sure they have a bit of a list to churn through. However they have consistently been in the top 8 since 2000. Tell me who's done better? They have had a loong run of sucess, Franklin gamble didnt pay off however i dont think retaining mumford for 2016 is getting it over the line for them
 
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Retain Rohan? It wasnt like the was wanted by sydney

Retain Hannebery? The guy who's been absolutely cooked for the last 2 years and wanted to go back to Victoria?

Retain Nankervis? He wanted to leave the swans, Swans offered him the exact $$$ Richmond offered

You could argue it only really pushed out Mumford, who was retired last season so i dont think that push would of helped them right now

As for the twilight, Sure they have a bit of a list to churn through. However they have consistently been in the top 8 since 2000. Tell me who's done better? They have had a loong run of sucess, Franklin gamble didnt pay off however i dont think retaining mumford for 2016 is getting it over the line for them

Think they also lost Malceski aswell but he only lasted 12 month at the swans. Its really just ment they havent brought in anyone on big wages since but NBD
 
Think they also lost Malceski aswell but he only lasted 12 month at the swans. Its really just ment they havent brought in anyone on big wages since but NBD
Malceski? **** that guy, However your right,

Also his drop off was remarkable. He looked cooked as soon as he came out playing for GC. However the buddy team in years 1-5 were never going to be the problem, Paying 1-1.3M a year for the leagues best forward is fine, Just paying 1m for years 6-9 when they were always going to have to churn through talent and not have that salary to attract another player entering his prime was dangerous. However hawks could of matched a 5 year 5m deal and got more then pick F***king 17 for him while Dale Thomas got the pies pick 10
 
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So far it has been a success, as an individual he has been outstanding on the field and helped us go very very close to winning a premiership. Yes he has a large contract but I'd say he has been worth it. Tippett and Reid's salaries combined would have been more than Franklin's salary over the same period and Franklin outperformed both of them put together. So in isolation Franklin takes a big chunk but he has been worth every cent.

Of the players that left that you mentioned, Mitchell is the only frustrating one. Our ruck situation hasn't been great so it would have been handy to keep Mumford or Nank but we made two GF's without them and a lack of ruckman wasn't the reason we lost the GF's.

The undoing of the Swans is time basically. We have been up for so long that at some point we had to fall. We've lost a lot of experience in the midfield and defense and we are now carrying too many young players to be competitive.
Lol @ justifying Franklins contract by comparing his output to another massively overpaid player and a forever injured player.
 
Some healthy debate going on here, very interesting insights. Try and keep the name calling and slights to a minimum though, as it's just a question that's being postulated
 
I think the premise of this thread is moronic at best. They played in 2 GFs, multiple top 4s and probably added a 0 to the bottom line.

You know there is another 0 in the mix right. Zero flags.
Having said that I'd err on the side of the deal being a success, but only just as now there are a few years of backended pain ahead....
 
Whilst the ultimate aim should be to win premierships, the Buddy trade was obviously about much more than that, his profile was useful at a time when a cross-town rival was starting to encroach. The Swans also weren't a Friday night team (partly due to other reasons) until he came along.

Winning flags with him or without him is beside the point. The Swans were going to be in contention for a few years anyway, and he helped win many games, was good in the GFs, and took them to two imperious minor premierships. The Swans also have a history of trading in big-name forwards without long-term team harm, so I'm sure they were better equipped than most to manage such a situation. They probably also forecast that a few quality academy kids were coming through, making it the right time to pick up someone like Lance. Lance is also a useful big name to have around when the team (and his own form) declines, he'll still pull reasonable crowds when the Swans are down.

Buddy was going to be a more damaging pick-up for the Giants list, so I was glad that Sydney got him instead (even though the recency of Tippett, COLA and flag left a bad taste in many observer's mouths).
 
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Whilst the ultimate aim should be to win premierships, the Buddy trade was obviously about much more than that, his profile was useful at a time when a cross-town rival was starting to encroach. The Swans also weren't a Friday night team (partly due to other reasons) until he came along.

Winning flags with him or without him is beside the point. The Swans were going to be in contention for a few years anyway, and he helped win many games, was good in the GFs, and took them to two imperious minor premierships. The Swans also have a history of trading in big-name forwards without long-term team harm, so I'm sure they were better equipped than most to manage such a situation. They probably also forecast that a few quality academy kids were coming through, making it the right time to pick up someone like Lance.

Buddy was going to be a more damaging pick-up for the Giants list, so I was glad that Sydney got him instead (even though the recency of Tippett, COLA and flag left a bad taste in many observer's mouths).

Interesting that you bring up COLA. Do you think that the extra incentive provided/then taken away, contributed to their initial decision/cap tightening and pushing players out? I do wonder if the Swans board had hindsight, would they have offered Buddy that same contract, knowing that COLA wouldn't be there anymore?

It probably seemed like a free hit at the time, given the extra cap they had, but maybe would not have been so viable a decision had the COLA not been in play in the first place?
 
Buddy will also still draw reasonable crowds when the Swans (and his own form) are declined. His twilight will include a few records/milestones and "last-chance-to-see-him" type events. The Swans didn't really get to demonstrate that with Capper, Lockett or Hall.
 
Interesting that you bring up COLA. Do you think that the extra incentive provided/then taken away, contributed to their initial decision/cap tightening and pushing players out? I do wonder if the Swans board had hindsight, would they have offered Buddy that same contract, knowing that COLA wouldn't be there anymore?

It probably seemed like a free hit at the time, given the extra cap they had, but maybe would not have been so viable a decision had the COLA not been in play in the first place?
I'm no real expert on COLA personally. It always felt like more of a Vic Media focus than something you heard much about in NSW. But having lived in several cities, Sydney is more expensive to live in and get around.

9 years was always a bit of a whoa thing at the time, but if he can deliver 7 years of decent football, then job done imo. Swans had a good era, just uncapitalised in 2016-17 (clearly the Hawks were unbeatable on the day in 2014).
 
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Buddy’s contract didn’t have anything to do with swans losing Nank
It purely came down to Richmond offering Nank the ability to be the number 1 ruck and play Sr footy

At the time he was 3rd down the pecking order at the swans and as far as I’m aware he still has a great relationship with the swans and money didn’t come into the equation
 

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Was the recruitment of Lance 'Buddy' Franklin, the undoing of the Swans?

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