Wayne Carey and Corey Mckernan or Lance Franklin and Jarryd Roughead?

[krisholio14]

Fairer comparison would be to replace McKernan with Longmire as Corey was never really a true forward. Makes the decision of Duck and Horse even easier.

He played plenty up forward while Longmire had a busted knee. One of those times happened to be during his best year as a league footballer - 1996.

 

[pacman]

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer

If I start looking at footy in such a negative view I'll give up, highlight the negatives and not worry about the highlights.

 

[Team DJ]

He played plenty up forward while Longmire had a busted knee. One of those times happened to be during his best year as a league footballer - 1996.

I will stand correted, but Corey was their number 1 ruck.

They had Carey Scholl Roberts and Crocker that all played as key forwards.

99 i think he floated forward a bit more.

 

[Team DJ]

If I start looking at footy in such a negative view I'll give up, highlight the negatives and not worry about the highlights.

Ie. Your post about carey kicking 1 goal 4 in 98?

 

[krisholio14]

I will stand correted, but Corey was their number 1 ruck.

They had Carey Scholl Roberts and Crocker that all played as key forwards.

99 i think he floated forward a bit more.

He was no 1 ruck for sure, but like we see again today, would move forward when 'resting'. I think that's why the comparison may have come into it, with Roughead playing the ruck/forward role fairly regularly now.

 

[pacman]

Ie. Your post about carey kicking 1 goal 4 in 98?

Read the whole thread and what I was referring too.
Carey wasn't the only culprit that day, I'm not potting him I agree he's one of the greatest ever. It's a comparison.
You're potting Buddy in big games which is a joke. Especially what he did in a final against the Crows at 20 yrs of age.

 

[Team DJ]

Read the whole thread and what I was referring too.
Carey wasn't the only culprit that day, I'm not potting him I agree he's one of the greatest ever. It's a comparison.
You're potting Buddy in big games which is a joke. Especially what he did in a final against the Crows at 20 yrs of age.

Im not potting Buddy in big games. In fact he perfoms well if not really well in most if not all of them.

His problem is and has often been highlighted is kicking. Not least of which in 2012.

 

[Donakebab]

He played plenty up forward while Longmire had a busted knee. One of those times happened to be during his best year as a league footballer - 1996.

Definitely more of a ruckman, even in 1996. He had his second best season for hit outs and the most of any player for North that season.

My beef is the Hawthorn supporters only factoring in goals in their argument, which is flawed. McKernan was a #1 ruck who occasionally played forward, Roughead is a forward who occasionally pinch hits in the ruck. The only time they have played a similar role was McKernan's 1996 and Roughead's 2012. Either leave the goal difference argument and just look at them as total output, or compare when they played the same role.

 

[pacman]

Definitely more of a ruckman, even in 1996. He had his second best season for hit outs and the most of any player for North that season.

My beef is the Hawthorn supporters only factoring in goals in their argument, which is flawed. McKernan was a #1 ruck who occasionally played forward, Roughead is a forward who occasionally pinch hits in the ruck. The only time they have played a similar role was McKernan's 1996 and Roughead's 2012. Either leave the goal difference argument and just look at them as total output, or compare when they played the same role.

Most Hawk fans on here have said Carey - McKernan.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

He kicked 2 from 55 and 1 from 70, I watched the game in pain last night on Fox. Wasn't much more Buddy could have done.

Yeah there was, nail the ones closer in from set shots.

 

[hayes]

If I were a betting man, I'd say Buddy is likely to finish his career at somewhere around the 750-800 goal mark.

He's a man that relies heavily on his athletic ability; I think some might WAY over estimate how many 'elite' years he has left. Let's say he stays at his current rate of performance until 30, and averages ~20 games a year.

That'll get him to ~800 goals.

For most of his career he's been playing for a very good side, I think it's clear the Hawks are aiming at ~a two year window at the moment.

So a player that relies on athletic prowess, not a great contested mark, yet to play for a long term poor side, yet to suffer from serious injury...... and he's gonna just keep ticking over?

I'd be absolutely stunned if he topped 800 (and 800 goals by the way is nothing to sneeze at).

The poll however, I think I'd have to go the Hawk duo.

Carey is far and away the best player of the four, but McKernan is not as good as Roughead (IMO); and Franklin is knocking on the door of a 'great' forward.

People tend to say this a lot in all sports, but good players (and in Buddy's case a once in a lifetime player) continue to find ways to be good for the rest of their careers even when they do slow down a bit. Like all great players Buddy will adjust when he needs to.

 

[pacman]

Yeah there was, nail the ones closer in from set shots.

Do you pot Ablett or Stevie J cause they did very little with their 34 touches in the 08 GF?

 

[Donakebab]

Do you pot Ablett or Stevie J cause they did very little with their 34 touches in the 08 GF?

Who would pot Ablett? He was close to best on.

 

[Elite Master]

For those who were questioning about what season I am referring to when I mention Buddy and Roughy at their peak, yes, overall thus far, I am talking about 2008.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I don't feel this is all that debatable - Carey and McKernan in 1996 was the best big man duo (individual season) I have seen. Many have said because Carey (the best player I've seen) is in the argument, they win but ironically, it was actually McKernan in 1996 who was widely considered to be the best player that year (MVP, most votes in Brownlow, etc).

Overall, however, I think Buddy and Roughy will be the better duo because depite Carey being Carey, Roughead has already gone well past McKernan in terms of career.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

Carey was better than Buddy & Roughy combined. IMO.

 

[WWSD]

Carey was better than Buddy & Roughy combined. IMO.

You're only saying this because the Tigers missed out on getting both of them.

 

[KillaKanga]

Carey is Carey. Buddy is Buddy and Roughead is a very good player but people either forget or didn't see McKernan in full flight. And it wasn't just the 1 great year and the rest average. Sure dislocating his shoulder against the Saints in the 97 prelim didn't help but his ability to ruck, get possession stream down the ground and either goal or find a forward was awe inspiring. If he was elligible in 96 and was now known as a Brownlow medalist then his standing would probabaly be higher.

Massive match changer and top teir player.

Obviously it's Carey & McKernan but they'd have to be close to best combination for that kind of player.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

For those who were questioning about what season I am referring to when I mention Buddy and Roughy at their peak, yes, overall thus far, I am talking about 2008.

2008 was indeed the year when Franklin has kicked the most goals, but I don't think he necessarily played his best football that year. His 2011 was superior, but he played a different role.

 

[the big lebowski]

And it wasn't just the 1 great year and the rest average.

Ya reckon? I admit i was much younger then and probably didn't watch and understand the game as I do now but other than a few standout performances i always thought he was average.

I remember him kicking 9 against the cats on a friday night, his 99 Grandfinal was excellent, and that amazing match against the scumbags when they came back from 69 points by halftime as also being a great individual game, but i can't remember him doing much else post 96.

 

[KillaKanga]

Ya reckon?

Yeah I do

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Do you pot Ablett or Stevie J cause they did very little with their 34 touches in the 08 GF?

No, I pot the forward line, in particular the likes of Mooney, Ottens and one or two others who all had easy shots leading up to half time that could have iced the game but they collectively got ahead of themselves and had a monumental choke.

Nothing wrong with Ablett's game, he couldn't help it if the forward line was ineffectualy at keeping the ball down there to the point where the midfield had absolutely no confidence in driving the ball in there. Geelong's midfield were cleary better and their backs were pretty good too, forward line of Geelong was where it was lost.

Buddy may have been the reason they got back into it in the 3rd quarter but he had a fair hand in them being in that position in the first place and as the senior forward and focal point he played a fair role in not putting the Swans away in the last.

Others in this thread have seen it the same way as I did. You'll stick up for your Hawks, good on you. You've got to be able to be critical of the players you follow too when it's warranted.

 

[the big lebowski]

Yeah I do

Fair enough. Corey's a great North man so you wont get an arguement out of me

 

[pacman]

Who would pot Ablett? He was close to best on.

Exactly so was Buddy last year!
My point exactly.

 

[pacman]

No, I pot the forward line, in particular the likes of Mooney, Ottens and one or two others who all had easy shots leading up to half time that could have iced the game but they collectively got ahead of themselves and had a monumental choke.

Nothing wrong with Ablett's game, he couldn't help it if the forward line was ineffectualy at keeping the ball down there to the point where the midfield had absolutely no confidence in driving the ball in there. Geelong's midfield were cleary better and their backs were pretty good too, forward line of Geelong was where it was lost.

Buddy may have been the reason they got back into it in the 3rd quarter but he had a fair hand in them being in that position in the first place and as the senior forward and focal point he played a fair role in not putting the Swans away in the last.

Others in this thread have seen it the same way as I did. You'll stick up for your Hawks, good on you. You've got to be able to be critical of the players you follow too when it's warranted.

I am critical when warranted Hodge, Rioli & Birchall had shockers, Gunston missed a gimme.
But without Buddy we would have lost by 6 goals plus add Sewell to the equation and we lose by 10 goals.