WCE peak Judd was better than peak GAJ and peak Dustin Martin

[My Tilly]

No tagging during Martin's peak. Bit like today's NBA with very little defense.

Just imagine heading into a grand final and your direct match-up is someone like Jake Kolodjashnij

8

Jake Kolodjashnij

Age

29

Ht

193cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

148.5

2star

D

10.6

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.6

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.2

2star

MG

115.6

2star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

69.4

1star

I know he's decent but he won't exactly feature strongly on Geelong best ever defenders list.

 

[Freomaniac]

Replace Cousins and Kerr with spuds such as Murphy and Gibbs and it's no wonder Judd never got close to another flag with Carlton

true.....

Marc Murphy and Bryce Gibbs were good and serviceable mids. Both of those blokes didnt win AA selections or Brownlow medals.

Cousins and Kerr were both good. Both got AA selections. Cousins won a brownlow in 2005. Kerr finished 1 vote behind cousins in 2005.

 

[Freomaniac]

Again people are nostalgic apart from the 89 finals series his finals record was abysmal…

View attachment 1434446

I know it is off topic but 16 goals in 4 finals in 1992 isnt bad. If it was 2024 standards, that would be very good.

Ablett snr kicked 3 of the cats goals in that 1992 AFL grand final. Cats were not good enough on the day to win.

 

[Tiger 7]

You have to answer yes to this, because to answer no means you have no idea.

 

[Paracleet]

How is there 28 pages of this? Judds best footy is head and shoulders above (and it was tearing me up inside).

 

[SplintWhisky]

Dusty's 2017 is the greatest individual season by a player in the history of the game. Take Judd and GAJ best season and it doesn't come close. Only thing is that he wasn't at that level in the H&W season really, ever again. He was good but not consistently great.

Would say that 2017 peaked for Dusty at a 10, issue is all the rest of his full seasons were a 7. GAJ and Judd had much more seasons at 8 and 9 mark consistently.

 

[btdg]

true.....

Marc Murphy and Bryce Gibbs were good and serviceable mids. Both of those blokes didnt win AA selections or Brownlow medals.

Cousins and Kerr were both good. Both got AA selections. Cousins won a brownlow in 2005. Kerr finished 1 vote behind cousins in 2005.

I think it is forgotten how good those guys were early in their career

Murphy was All Australian and won the coaches association MVP in 2011. He was a very good player and the Brownlow favourite early 2012 until he was injured. He had a two more bad collision injuries in the next couple of years (all three incidents would be considered dangerous tackles today) and in boxing parlance just had his bell rung one too many times - played his career out as a solid but soft runner.

Gibbs was also a fantastic all round midfielder and finished 9th in the Brownlow at age 20. For some inexplicable reason we moved him to half back the following 2 years and he started to almost focus too much on his defensive game. He then hit his peak right as Carlton were falling apart under Malthouse. He was AA squad in 2014 and unlucky to miss out imo (in a finals team they probably slot him in).

Judd had plenty to work with there, albeit never as a team never quite able to put it all together and his Dean Cox at Carlton (Kreuzer) could never get on the field, which didn't help.

I think Carlton Judd is vastly underrated too. His evolution as a player coincided with a big shift in how the game was played. He looked faster and quicker in 2007 because teams allowed a heap of space and were going 1-1 at stoppages. By 2012 teams like Collingwood were bringing countless extra guys to clog up the outside, rotating heavily to keep guys fresh and the size of midfielders increased drastically, as did the tackle count. Judd won his Norm Smith in a 2005 'slugfest' where the teams combined for 121 tackles. In 2011 the grand finalists combined for 179 tackles - it was a totally different game.

 

[PhatBoy]

Dusty's 2017 is the greatest individual season by a player in the history of the game. Take Judd and GAJ best season and it doesn't come close. Only thing is that he wasn't at that level in the H&W season really, ever again. He was good but not consistently great.

Would say that 2017 peaked for Dusty at a 10, issue is all the rest of his full seasons were a 7. GAJ and Judd had much more seasons at 8 and 9 mark consistently.

It was the most decorated. Whether he reached a level that others have reached is more than up for debate.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think it is forgotten how good those guys were early in their career

Murphy was All Australian and won the coaches association MVP in 2011. He was a very good player and the Brownlow favourite early 2012 until he was injured. He had a two more bad collision injuries in the next couple of years (all three incidents would be considered dangerous tackles today) and in boxing parlance just had his bell rung one too many times - played his career out as a solid but soft runner.

Gibbs was also a fantastic all round midfielder and finished 9th in the Brownlow at age 20. For some inexplicable reason we moved him to half back the following 2 years and he started to almost focus too much on his defensive game. He then hit his peak right as Carlton were falling apart under Malthouse. He was AA squad in 2014 and unlucky to miss out imo (in a finals team they probably slot him in).

Judd had plenty to work with there, albeit never as a team never quite able to put it all together and his Dean Cox at Carlton (Kreuzer) could never get on the field, which didn't help.

I think Carlton Judd is vastly underrated too. His evolution as a player coincided with a big shift in how the game was played. He looked faster and quicker in 2007 because teams allowed a heap of space and were going 1-1 at stoppages. By 2012 teams like Collingwood were bringing countless extra guys to clog up the outside, rotating heavily to keep guys fresh and the size of midfielders increased drastically, as did the tackle count. Judd won his Norm Smith in a 2005 'slugfest' where the teams combined for 121 tackles. In 2011 the grand finalists combined for 179 tackles - it was a totally different game.

1st off I didnt know Marc Murphy got into the 2011 All Australian side. Looking back, I am not suprised as Carlton won a final that year. They nearly beat West coast in that semi final too.

Looking at those 3 number 1 picks in 2005-07.
2005: Marc Murphy
2006: Bryce Gibbs
2007: Matt Kreuzer.

Chris Judd gets traded to the blues at the end of 2007. So essentially Judd was in his prime and Gibbs and Murphy were young. Kreuzer was a solid Ruck and KPF but was injured. Carlton had Robbie Warnock. They also had Sammy Sauce Jacobs behind those 2 for 4 seasons between 2007-2010. Jacobs ended up traded and better ruckman than both of those blokes.

So Carlton made finals in 2009 to 2011.

Not Suprisingly Mark Murphys stats in that 2009 to 2011 period are good. All 3 of those seasons Carlton made finals, Mark Murphy at a minimum kicked at least 20 goals a season and averaged 25 disposals a game.

The only major knock I will say about Mick Malthouse when he coached your mob from 2013-5, is Taking Andrew Walker away from the forward line. Walker had a season when he kicked 56 goals and 27 behinds.

Judds Best years at Carlton was 2009 to 2013. Yeah he had his fair share of (groin) injuries, But when fit, he imporved the blues.

Judds last 2 seasons were not good. 12 games in 2014 and 8 games in 2015. It want the Groin injuries that ended his career, it was the ACL injury that ended it sadly. He was only 31 years and 271 days old.

If he didnt have constant injuries, he could of easily played another couple of seasons.

He did play 100 games for both eagles and blues so both clubs can draft his kids.

 

[Fire]

Not better than GAJ at his best. Flashier, more amazing yes. But not better.
Probably not as good as Kouta either but they are very different eras so hard to say with confidence.
But yes, when we are comparing him to names like these, then he was an all time great, at least for a while. Certainly better than Voss, Hird and Buckley at their best.

 

[toomanysquibs]

1977​

Hawthorn

3​

24​

17-0-7​

514​

133​

144​

658​

91​

59​

The guy who had these stats playing on ball and resting forward isn't mentioned in this thread. But it's an eyeful, albeit during an era where team defense wasn't a thing. Taggers were though.

Those last three columns are ridiculous in any era. No soft ball in that 658 column either.

Back OT: Peak Judd at WC was untouchable in the context of this thread. Wasn't a long peak however. Ablett Jr. came in with a bang and improved at a ridiculous rate and was ungodly consistent. Martin was highly combustible as a mid and forward, but slower than the other two reaching his peak.

Wouldn't be unhappy reading any of those names on the team sheet. Judd's peak was just silly though, even his first year was kind of nuts.