We need KPP's, not Midfielders.

[mattys123]

I'm getting sick of everyone saying we should get Burgoyne, Lovett, Davey, Palmer, Ball etc, when these are not the number 1 priority for Collingwood.

We need Key Positions Players in all areas.

We have just lost Rocca, and are about to lose Presti, and we are relying on 2-3 players to replace them, and if they don't come up we will be screwed.

Key Position Players get you to Grand Finals, and then give you more chance of winning them.

The only side in living memory who has won a GF without top KPP is WCE, and they had the greatest midfield trio of all time.

Time to recruit KPP's, either through the draft or trading, NO MORE MIDFIELDERS.

We drafted for Mids in the last draft, and got 2 absolute stunners, and maybe 2-3 more in Blight and Blair, and then we have McCarthy, Wellingham, MaCaffer and now Thomas to add to that midfield, it is far from our weakness.

WE NEED;

* 1 more Ruckman, at least
* 1 more Tall forward, queue GF replay, Stkilda have 2, Geelong have 2, we have Jack Anthony (more like a forward pocket) and Travis Cloke (CHF who doesnt kick goals).
* 1 More tall Back, could be Reid or Brown, but they will need help also after Presti retires.

 

[mattys123]

B: O'Brien N Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid Goldsack
C: Davis Swan Didak
HF: Thomas Cloke Macaffer
F: Anthony Dawes Medhurst

FOLL: Wood Pendlebury Sidebottom

INT: Dick Beams McCarthy Fraser
EMER: Toovey Lockyer O'Bree Rusling


Could do with one more just to be sure

Even with that, you are putting a lot of faith in Dawes, Rusling and Reid, all who have played 35 games in total.

We not only need KPP's for our first 22 in 1-2 years time, but we will also require some depth for the inevitable injuries that will come.

 

[unplugged]

The other week in one of the finals games, when Leigh Brown took a mark, I just imagined how good we could be with a power forward like Jonothan Brown on our side. I honestly think that's what we need to take a step forward.

I would have loved Barry Hall, but that looks gone.

I would love Fevola, but there's no way Carlton will get rid of him - and even if they do, I bet we can't get him.

I would love Roughead, but I doubt the Hawks would get rid of him. Same with someone like Pavlich - it just isn't going to happen.

People say we need to breed our own big forwards. This doesn't happen instantly. We need one that can slot right into our team next year. I agree... our midfield is good enough for now or at least it should be. Sidebottom and Beams are only going to get fitter and stronger (and therefore hopefully better) over the pre-season.

I'd also jizz in my pants if we were to somehow lay our hands on Brian Lake or someone of that caliber to take over from Presti.

SURELY this is the year that the Pies land a big fish, especially being on the verge of a Grand Final appearance.

 

[Snag Breac]

You may be right, Mattys, but there don't seem to be a lot of them about - excepting oldies, thugs and drunks. I wonder if there's a theme there?

 

[mattys123]

You may be right, Mattys, but there don't seem to be a lot of them about - excepting oldies, thugs and drunks. I wonder if there's a theme there?

What I'm trying to really say here is maybe we are better off not getting involved at all in trade week, unless we can get what we really want.

I don't want Davey, Burgoyne, Ball, Palmer etc, they just won't make that much difference, and aren't really any better then what we have in those positions anyway.

Why waste our last first round draft pick on a midfielder who is inconsistent, injury prone or just plain not elite.

My favourite "rumour" so far is that Fine wants Butcher, and will move heaven and earth to get him, hope it's true.

 

[Snag Breac]

What I'm trying to really say here is maybe we are better off not getting involved at all in trade week, unless we can get what we really want.

I don't want Davey, Burgoyne, Ball, Palmer etc, they just won't make that much difference, and aren't really any better then what we have in those positions anyway.

Why waste our last first round draft pick on a midfielder who is inconsistent, injury prone or just plain not elite.

My favourite "rumour" so far is that Fine wants Butcher, and will move heaven and earth to get him, hope it's true.

Who's Butcher?

 

[Snag Breac]

Young full forward in the draft, could go in the top 5.

We'll have no chance then.

 

[Breakthelines]

B: O'Brien N Brown Maxwell
HB: Shaw Reid Macaffer
C: Didak Swan Beams
HF: Thomas Cloke Davis
F: Anthony Dawes Medhurst

FOLL: Wood Pendlebury Sidebottom

INT: Dick Fraser Lockyer L Brown
EMER: Goldsack Rusling McCarthy Toovey

Presty - Retire
O'Bree - Retire/Delist
Rocca - Retire
Irish 1 & 2 - Homesick

If we can offload Pick 14 for Tarrent, he could play FB.

 

[mattys123]

If we can offload Pick 14 for Tarrent, he could play FB.

Pick 14 for a player we wanted to get rid off in the first place, NO WAY.

Tarrant will be 30 by the end of next season, when our premiership window opens according to a lot of people.

No thanks, take Duncan instead, or trade up for a better tall.

 

[dima17]

i tend to agree. although we could do with an extra gun/inside midfielder, our priority should be KPP.

TRADE WEEK:

CHRIS TARRANT: i would be putting my hand up for tarrant (perhaps for pick 30). i think he could definitly hold down CHB and play on the big power forwards. presti was beaten comprehensivly in the finals (riewoldt 5 goals, tippet 4 and hawkins also slayed him, albeit we all got slayed on that night). if we get tarrant, i would have N. Brown at full back and Tarrant and CHB, ahead of preti and leigh brown - as these boys a getting on in age (unless we win it next year, they wount be in our next flag)

BRENDAN FEVOLA: i doubt he will leave and even if he does the chance of him coming to us are slim. however, it's a slim possibility. if he is on the trade table and mick and the coaching staff beleive they can curb his ways, he is worth the punt. perhaps for our first round pick + someone like medhurst, davis or dawes.

PICK 14: if we don't use this pick in trade week, we sould definitly get a KPP. these are the options i beleive:

PANOS - a powerful kid and he is still growing, so at 193cm he will only get bigger. he could be the CHF/FF we are looking for.

TALIA - named CHB of the all-australian team for u-18's, he was not only a decent stopper, but he also had big numbers (something needed in the modern game) smart footy brain and good user of the footy. could be a possibility to play down back with reid/brown in the future. could also free up n. brown to play forward perhaps??

GRIFFITHS - 195 cm, 99kg!!!! at just 18!!!. big boy who is super strong and is supreisingly agile for his size. is a bit more of a risk than the other two but could be a gun CHF with a presence.

your thoughts???

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Yeah Panos or Talia are the ones to look at. Or Vardy even.

 

[dswan]

MATTHEW PANOS sounds like he would fit the bill too, they reckon the Dogs will take him but we have the pick before them.

"Matthew Panos is an athletic, silky-smooth 193cm, 18 year old key forward from Norwood. He has a great set of hands and a long precision kick, as demonstrated when he led SA in goal-kicking at the NAB AFL U/18 National Championships in 2009. He was selected All Australian Full Forward of the U/18 Championships."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohHyb08x6ts


Yeah lets take this bloke someone who can kick and take a grab etc.

 

[Keele]

1 more Ruckman, at least

that is the main thing we should be targeting... all out for a proven ruckman.

note that both GF teams had imported proven quality ruckman playing for them.

Fraser can be used elswhere as he has great bigman skills and Wood should be second ruck.

 

[NT.Thunder]

What I'm trying to really say here is maybe we are better off not getting involved at all in trade week, unless we can get what we really want.

I don't want Davey, Burgoyne, Ball, Palmer etc, they just won't make that much difference, and aren't really any better then what we have in those positions anyway.

Why waste our last first round draft pick on a midfielder who is inconsistent, injury prone or just plain not elite.

My favourite "rumour" so far is that Fine wants Butcher, and will move heaven and earth to get him, hope it's true.

Now call me naive, but I would hope that our football department would not get involved in some renegade trading. Can you imagine them sitting there on a Thursday going "Shit, we've only got 1 day left and we havent made a trade yet, there's nothing really we need or want here so how about we just grab Leigh Brown or Corrie for shits and giggles"

Well bad example, but i trust them in that they know better then us keyboard warriors the immediate and future needs of our club to take us to a GF. This is the ultimate goal right.

These are the guys that mix with the players and coaching staff on a daily basis and are not influenced by outside ideas. They should know the development of each and every player and whether they can cut it at the top level.

If they say that Dawes, Reid, Russling, Brown and the likes are ready to take the next step then great.

If they say guuys like O'bree, Tarks, Presti, Rocca are finnished then great. I'm sure next week we will all have a better idea on what we are lacking when we start trade week.

Regarding Butcher, How in gods earth are we going to get a top 5 draft pick to secure this guy?

Can someone tell me who is worthy a top 5 draft pick in a trade other then Pendlebury and that would be questionable. Any1 remember the Judd trade? If we get a top 5 draft pick we are going to lose several promising young players.

Stuff an unproven Butcher i say!

 

[daics cousin]

Young full forward in the draft, should go in the top 5, sounds like Tippet.


"The clear standout key forward in the early part of 2009, Butcher is a shade under 200cm (and could keep growing). Outstanding performance for Vic Country in the 2008 U18 Championships. Has great contested marking ability and is excellent at ground level for a big man. With so much upside and ability it is hard to see him drafted outside the top three in 2009."

Don't get too carried away with Butcher,I posted a thread about him about a week ago.
He will go top 5 ,but the story i heard was hine was willing to trade Cloke and our first round pick,pick 14 to richmond to get their pick 3 to snatch John Butcher.Not worth it.

A friend of mine knows Butcher very well,yes he is tall can mark but CANNOT KICK.
The last TAC Final he played in he kicked 10 points.
We cannot afford to get hacks that can't kick,and it will take years before this kid develops ,our premiership window is NOW- 2012.
Stick with Clokey,and pick up a kpp with our pick 14,Butcher is a butcher when it comes to kicking,he butches the ball,not for us.Too much to give up on maybes.

 

[Coach]

thats a load of crap i was at that game butch played chf took 10 marks had 18 possies kicked 2goals 1 you just proved u know nothing about him

 

[daics cousin]

thats a load of crap i was at that game butch played chf took 10 marks had 18 possies kicked 2goals 1 you just proved u know nothing about him

Well then i hope Richmond picks him up.No way i would give up travis cloke plus our first round pick on an unknown who maybe might work out.
I would rather keep Travis, and use our Pick 14 on the best availbale kpp..

 

[Optimax]

Well then i hope Richmond picks him up.No way i would give up travis cloke plus our first round pick on an unknown who maybe might work out.
I would rather keep Travis, and use our Pick 14 on the best availbale kpp..

Im not on the trading Cloke bandwagon, nor am i on the moving cloke to anywhere bar deep forward

But you are talking some crap on butcher, his kicking was terrible once, its not like its bad horrid every week.

 

[BEEG]

We need a hard inside Mid like a Ball to then release Davis and Didak to flanks our team will be alot better if this happens

 

[Coach]

butcher kicked 32 goals 15 points in tac this year no kicking probs justa beat up from people that have never seen him play have u

 

[Pie eyed]

We need a hard inside Mid like a Ball to then release Davis and Didak to flanks our team will be alot better if this happens

I have to agree with freeing up one of Davis or Didak.
The forward line suffered from their absence.

 

[itwdandy]

He will go top 5 ,but the story i heard was hine was willing to trade Cloke and our first round pick,pick 14 to richmond to get their pick 3 to snatch John Butcher.

Cloke and Pick 14 wont get us pick 3!!

I would love that but does anyone else think Richmond would laugh?

Personally, if we aquired pick 3 id be offering it to west cost for Kerr and Seaby! They would have to look at that. Thats a huge win for both sides.

 

[Quicky]

Totally agree with you Matty.

I don't mind chasing a few mids but it can't be at the expense of shoring up our KP stocks. (is it shoring or suring??)

The biggest problem is that drafting young KP players means they will not be ready to go straight away.

I think the best thing for us to do would be to chase someone like Drum (who would come at a reasonable price) and then use our first rounder on a key position forward. That way we get an experienced KPB (Malthouse has a great record with defenders and Drum could be great for us) and we also get a promising KPF also (any of Talia, Carlisle, Panos, Black or Griffiths may be good).

In this case we would need to put faith in Cloke to improve and hold down a key position in the forward line. Cloke has had a poor year but if he can get back to his 2007 form will be a great player for us - he is still only 22. If Cloke or Rus or Dawes don't work out we have another young KPF option that we can develop.

 

[shawthing09]

What we need is not as simple is that a lot depends on where you think we are at and how you rate our current stocks.

There is a need for another ruckmen and preferably someone ready made not a kid who is going to come into their own at what is likely to be the end of our window.

Other than that there are 3 needs and all of this depends on when you think we are ready to win a flag.

Inside mid - Most people talking about the need for more hardarse inside ball winners are talking about in the short term I assume. Beams, Sidebottom and McCarthy are all tough nuts with clean hands inside. Add to that Pendles who is great inside and Swan who holds his own. Wellingham who is great inside but probably not a tough nut. The inside ball winning will come as the younger guys develop a body to be able to muscle their way in and get it. All that said a ready made clearance machine would have helped us this year and probably would be of good use next year.

KPP - A ready made player would be handy short term and a lot of the long term comes down to faith in the guys we have. Brown, Anthony and Cloke have all shown they are AFL standard Kpp. There is a bit riding on Ried at CHB. Then there is Dawes and Rus who may add an extra dynamic to the foward line.

I think long term the foward line actually looks fine. Anthony doesn't play like a pocket at all. He plays tall makes a contest brings the ball to groun etc. He just kicked 50 in his first full season as a foward at AFL level. All this while playing as the number one target and getting the number one defender more often then not. I think his got plenty more upside. He's going to be a very solid foward. Towards the end of the year he seemed to be getting more distance on his goal kicking which adds another dimension. If he is able to get reliable from outside 50 it will make him much harder to stop and take him from a Bradshaw type prototype to more of a Fev type foward.

Cloke will find his feet and is not likely to have a year as bad as this.

It would be good to have another dynamic up foward but there are guys like Macaffer, Thomas, Dick, Davis etc who all could possibly add this.

Another KPP would be nice but it's not like it's a pressing need.

Outside Mid - For mine long term that is the only gap we have. IMO we don't have a guy who can run and break the lines and then be confident in hitting targets outside of Davis who is 29. Barham would be great but can't kick. Thomas could do the role but he has issues with his tank at the moment. His kicking still lacks the polish you'd need. Dick may play the role but I think he adds a bit to the fowardline.

 

[robertg22]

From the times I've seen Butcher play he looked like a very nice shot for goal...
We are no chance to get him though.