Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

[Mr Bultitude]

She did great!

It really is amazing to watch people you train with on the world stage.

Also - if the IPF could not mess up the spelling on the banner next year, that would be great .

It's pretty nuts!

I've taken a hiatus from powerlifting for a while but just about to jump back in, eyeing a comp in Nov (with USAPL Aus). Very excited.

 

[Kram]

This is like when theyve done those overall assesments for fitness to try and determine the fittest sport.

Most people think of marathon runners or cyclists or triathletes as being the most "fit" but from memory it was usually boxers and the like noting they never "won" any individual category of fitness but they were always in the top 20% sort of thing. If i remember this was pre cross fit being a thing.

Obviously a marathon runner will smash all in cardio but then get absolutely flogged in strength and power tests etc.

Hard to set up logistically but I always thought a cool event would be a 100m sprint run straight into a 50m swim. The dive into the pool on the run would be epic haha.

 

[Coolangatta]

Hmm, lower back feeling sore, not the good kind. Might be the cold weather and not warming up enough. Did 1 warm set of 5 reps, then a 3 rep set, then went for a 6RM for Zercher. Hit 5 reps, did 3 more sets with the same weight, hitting 3 reps each.

Followed the Jacked and Tan formula for that, so basically whatever rep max I hit whether it’s 1 or 10, I do 3 more sets with the recommended number of reps. Last one is supposed to be as many reps as possible.

I’ll be cautious.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

I know people will disagree with me but I can't see any functional benefit to lifting heavy. I get if you're targeting the goal itself, or you have a specific sport that relies on maximal strength but in most cases it's absolutely pointless.

When in any real world situation do you need a 2x body weight squat or deadlift. When do you need more than 100K hip thrusts, bench press isn't functional.

I see more benefit ijn working on muscular endurance and smashing out reps over maximal strength and working on functional exercises. I think we only do what we do because it's all we know. It's all we've done because everyone does it. I know it's unpopular but I think lifting heavy is overrated.

Especially if we're talking about longevity, lifting heavy consistently is going to bring about increased strain on your body and joints. I think if you don't have a specific goal in mind then what's it doing for you?

 

[Coolangatta]

I know people will disagree with me but I can't see any functional benefit to lifting heavy. I get if you're targeting the goal itself, or you have a specific sport that relies on maximal strength but in most cases it's absolutely pointless.

When in any real world situation do you need a 2x body weight squat or deadlift. When do you need more than 100K hip thrusts, bench press isn't functional.

I see more benefit ijn working on muscular endurance and smashing out reps over maximal strength and working on functional exercises. I think we only do what we do because it's all we know. It's all we've done because everyone does it. I know it's unpopular but I think lifting heavy is overrated.

Especially if we're talking about longevity, lifting heavy consistently is going to bring about increased strain on your body and joints. I think if you don't have a specific goal in mind then what's it doing for you?

yeah, thinking of just 3x10+ everything, and I've got microplates which are great for slow and go for barbell exercises.

 

[Glorfindel]

When in any real world situation do you need a 2x body weight squat or deadlift.

You're thinking too literal.
The maximum force I can produce (which I demonstrate in the gym with a 3x bodyweight squat & deadlift) absolutely gives me an advantage in a whole host of plausible, day to day, situations over someone who can't produce the force required for a 240 squat/deadlift.
Is there a point of diminishing returns where the cost of adding 5kg to your 1rm squat outweighs the benefit (outside of powerlifting competition)? Sure, but that doesn't inherently mean it's "bad" to train to improve your maximal strength.
Benefits of training with the intent of developing maximal strength become even more pronounced when you're working with people that are so sarcopenic standing on their own 2 feet for 10 seconds is probably 200% of what they're physically capable of.

 

[Coolangatta]

You're thinking too literal.
The maximum force I can produce (which I demonstrate in the gym with a 3x bodyweight squat & deadlift) absolutely gives me an advantage in a whole host of plausible, day to day, situations over someone who can't produce the force required for a 240 squat/deadlift.
Is there a point of diminishing returns where the cost of adding 5kg to your 1rm squat outweighs the benefit (outside of powerlifting competition)? Sure, but that doesn't inherently mean it's "bad" to train to improve your maximal strength.
Benefits of training with the intent of developing maximal strength become even more pronounced when you're working with people that are so sarcopenic standing on their own 2 feet for 10 seconds is probably 200% of what they're physically capable of.

Sure, that's an awesome feat you've accomplished, but a lot of people like myself get injured along the way trying to get anywhere near that. Now, I'm not saying you can't get injured doing 3x10 or something like that, but your risk of injury is definitely higher when training closer to your 1RM.

Although, strangely, I didn't have any issues when attempting a 1RM for Zercher then doing a couple back off sets with 30kg less weight. I think it's attempting 3+ reps at a heavy Zercher where the form breaks down. Been alright with the trap bar, too, gone heavy without any issues.

Perhaps it's not so much lifting heavy as it is certain lifts are better suited to a certain rep/percent of 1RM than others.

 

[Glorfindel]

but your risk of injury is definitely higher when training closer to your 1RM.

Is it though?
Powerlifting (6ish) has a lower incidence of injury per 100,000 hours than running (12ish), and running is about as far removed from a 1rm as you can get.

I didn't have any issues when attempting a 1RM for Zercher then doing a couple back off sets with 30kg less weight. I think it's attempting 3+ reps at a heavy Zercher where the form breaks down

Fatigue/endurance plays less of a part in a 1rm vs other rep maxes.
Westside had a similar experience to you. Dave Tate and Louie Simmons have spoken at length at how injury rates in the gym went down noticeable after switching to weekly 1rms from weekly 2-3rms.

 

[Coolangatta]

Is it though?
Powerlifting (6ish) has a lower incidence of injury per 100,000 hours than running (12ish), and running is about as far removed from a 1rm as you can get.


Fatigue/endurance plays less of a part in a 1rm vs other rep maxes.
Westside had a similar experience to you. Dave Tate and Louie Simmons have spoken at length at how injury rates in the gym went down noticeable after switching to weekly 1rms from weekly 2-3rms.

Yeah, it was ironic. As soon as I switched from doing a 1RM plus 2-3 back off sets I’ve had troubles.

Not too keen to just get back into a 1RM again but I think I’d rather do that than do 2-4 heavy reps for a few sets. That’s nasty haha.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

I'm more getting to the point that its not as functional as people make out. Having a 3x bodyweight deadlift does **** all for martial arts. Do you think the top 5 guys in AFL have 3x bodyweight deadlifts? Do you think HAVING a 3x deadlift helps with the majority of sports?

I know that when I started getting to 40KG dumbells I started getting shoulder injuries once a week with 5rm. Önce a week with a 10RM was fine.

I also don't think powerlifting and single range of motion lifts are overly functional. Most sports don't rely on a single range of motion.

 

[Jugada]

I'm more getting to the point that its not as functional as people make out. Having a 3x bodyweight deadlift does * all for martial arts. Do you think the top 5 guys in AFL have 3x bodyweight deadlifts? Do you think HAVING a 3x deadlift helps with the majority of sports?

I know that when I started getting to 40KG dumbells I started getting shoulder injuries once a week with 5rm. Önce a week with a 10RM was fine.

I also don't think powerlifting and single range of motion lifts are overly functional. Most sports don't rely on a single range of motion.

AFL players are 100% training their bench and other lifts for max strength rather than hypertrophy.

Regardless the "functional strength" is exactly for that movement in the gym for most people. That is their sport and they want to progressively get better. Not sure anyone in there gives a **** that it has no use in martial arts

 

[Glorfindel]

Do you think HAVING a 3x deadlift helps with the majority of sports?

All other things being equal? Then yes. If you're are of similar skill level to your opponent but have greater physical attributes (like strength) compared to your competition you should be winning more often than not.
Is arbitrarily chasing a 3x bodyweight deadlift "just because" worth it? Probably not.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

All other things being equal? Then yes. If you're are of similar skill level to your opponent but have greater physical attributes (like strength) compared to your competition you should be winning more often than not.
Is arbitrarily chasing a 3x bodyweight deadlift "just because" worth it? Probably not.

What do you think Clayton Olivers lifting stats are? I doubt he has anything remarkable but yet he's one of the best players in the competition.

Michael Jordan was already the best player in the NBA by a mile before he started hitting the gym hard.

 

[Glorfindel]

What do you think Clayton Olivers lifting stats are?

No idea but I've seen Scott Pendlebury deadlift over 220kg with a trap bar in person.
The idea that AFL players never train for maximal strength development is just objectively false regardless.

Michael Jordan was already the best player in the NBA by a mile before he started hitting the gym hard.

And then got even better as he got stronger.

 

[Kram]

I'm more getting to the point that its not as functional as people make out. Having a 3x bodyweight deadlift does * all for martial arts. Do you think the top 5 guys in AFL have 3x bodyweight deadlifts? Do you think HAVING a 3x deadlift helps with the majority of sports?

I know that when I started getting to 40KG dumbells I started getting shoulder injuries once a week with 5rm. Önce a week with a 10RM was fine.

I also don't think powerlifting and single range of motion lifts are overly functional. Most sports don't rely on a single range of motion.

For mine funniest are weight training guys on youtube so negative on cardio.

 

[go you pups]

Hey I saw you built your own gym, I'm thinking of doing the same for a low cost because when I relocate I want to ditch my gym membership so I can workout in peace. Looking at doing more functional workouts as I'm getting to that age where I think high level strength is overrated and not going to overly help my jitsu.

Probably looking at a cheap squat rack with pullup and dip bars
20/30/40 slam balls
Ropes

Just trying to work out what to do to have functional strength in hamstrings and forearms without spending a crap load of money on db's or trap bars etc, kettlebells etc.

Slam balls, a barbell and 120KG of weight with a squat rack should be able to hit most muscle groups.

Trying to work out what sort of exercises I can do with minimal equipment.

I've already got gym mats but what do you reckon

If you want to get in forearm work but don't want to spend heaps on free weights then unfortunately the trap bar or farmers walk handles would be your best bet there I just can't think of many alternatives

If you're going for farmers carry handles then you'll need 4x20 and 4x10 kg plates, that's your base to work around for forearm strength, I'd grab 4x5s and 2.5s also

Farmers handles at gym helped my deadlift/forearm strength immensely over summer

RDLs will work just fine for hamstrings, that is my main hamstring exercise



Currently end of financial year sales on, so it's a good time to look around

Unfortunately you will have to spend some money, no ifs or buts. I went cheap first time and ended up replacing what I had, my squat rack was upgraded after 11 months for example and because of my work I'll need to move my current power rack/lat tower on for a plate loaded all in one trainer as powerlifting/strength programming is too taxing on my body and I'm reverting primarily to just hypertrophy workouts again, so having the smith machine and functional trainer available eventually will be a humongous game changer for me, particularly when I'm knackered after work but need to get a workout in, I can sit on that thing, take my time and get a good pump out of it still. Also my original barbell is just my beater bar now, my zinc coated 360Strength power bar is very good and works a treat for benching and deadlifting

Anyways

Potentially you could find a good rack and plates cheaper on gumtree/marketplace but I'd 100% pay up for a decent barbell

With the areas you want to target

• Buy a good barbell as it's your main weapon and connection to the weights, if you want to get in the forearm work then you'll have to buy a trap bar or farmers carries handles also
• A half rack will probably do the job and give you a chin up bar and will probably have a dip attachment
• Plates as mentioned, you might need plate storage, I recommend a rack with built in plate storage, this way you can put your weights away neatly and weigh your rack down at the same time
• Dumbbells will cost a fortune, however if you buy enough plates then a pair of loadable Olympic dumbbell handles could work and will give you dumbbell options at least, if you go this way then also make sure you have 2 pairs of Olympic collars to hold the plates onto the sleeves
• Slam balls, sure. I've never used one though, more of a kettlebell man in terms of functional/dynamic strength, but they look to be a good workout
• Some bands may give you variation, if you plan on using bands for hypertrophy as a cable replacement then I'd recommend buying a high low pulley set that you can tie up around your rack/chin up bar End of Line Clearance | Cable Pulley System - Upper this one worked just fine for me and I still use it for facepulls/tricep overhead extensions as my rack lat tower rubs on the steel when I do facepulls/tricep overheads as they're horizontal, not vertical movements, but once I get this smith cable rack it'll be redundant

 

[go you pups]

I know people will disagree with me but I can't see any functional benefit to lifting heavy. I get if you're targeting the goal itself, or you have a specific sport that relies on maximal strength but in most cases it's absolutely pointless.

When in any real world situation do you need a 2x body weight squat or deadlift. When do you need more than 100K hip thrusts, bench press isn't functional.

I see more benefit ijn working on muscular endurance and smashing out reps over maximal strength and working on functional exercises. I think we only do what we do because it's all we know. It's all we've done because everyone does it. I know it's unpopular but I think lifting heavy is overrated.

Especially if we're talking about longevity, lifting heavy consistently is going to bring about increased strain on your body and joints. I think if you don't have a specific goal in mind then what's it doing for you?

If it's not your sport or you don't enjoy it, then yes I agree

I for example have to lift heavy for some things due to carryover to other exercises plus I'm the biggest heaviest guy in the chat, I have to carry my own weight

I'm like 165kgs, I have to bench 100-120kg for medium-high reps most weeks in order to have any carryover to push ups or dips, losing the weight would be the best thing here, but it'll take time, my job will also provide constant calorie deficits 8-9 months of the year, as long as I manage winter I'll be rocking and rolling come spring again

Sumo deadlifts have allowed me to get back into the workplace fulltime again and strengthen my dodgy lower back in the process, game changer of an exercise, I'm not going that heavy at the moment due to work, but I range from 100-140kgs every week, 130kgs tonight I did for a triple and a quadruple, I generally feel good the next few days after I do it too, must be the spinal decompression deadlifting apparently does

In order to be able to 1 day chin up again if I get lighter, I have to have lat strength, so going hard on the rows and pulldowns are a must. However if I were to pick one exercise of the 2 to go hard at, it's always pulldowns, as it has the most carryover to chin ups, 110kg some weeks. Rows at least have versatility though, sometimes all you need is a good contraction there and it's fantastic for hypertrophy/muscle definition/development

Squats though have largely been binned, I squat with a kettlebell or dumbbell these days, too much spinal compression with any type of barbell squat

 

[Glorfindel]

Dumbbells will cost a fortune, however if you buy enough plates then a pair of loadable Olympic dumbbell handles could work and will give you dumbbell options at least, if you go this way then also make sure you have 2 pairs of Olympic collars to hold the plates onto the sleeves

Gym direct do a good adjustable olympic dumbbell (few more weight options than just the link below).
I did the math and iirc with enough 5kg cast iron plates (like the ones in the 107kg set) you could make a dumbbell over 100kg.

Muscle Motion Cast Iron Adjustable Olympic Dumbbell Set

Introducing the Muscle Motion Cast Iron Olympic Adjustable Barbell Set: Unleash Your Full Strength PotentialUpgrade your strength training routine with the Muscle Motion Cast Iron Olympic Adjustable Barbell Set. This versatile and robust set is designed to help you achieve your fitness goals and...

gymdirect.com.au

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Did 2x 10 60 kg front squats. 2x10 back with pauses. Finished with single leg leg press to burn our. Solid workout. No heavy weights

Finished with core.

 

[go you pups]

Yeah so that power rack will be moved on later in the year, hopefully October, Black Friday the latest, rather buy something else come Black Friday like a mass storage rack though as work is just too demanding to train on the strength side of things like I was able to do in 2021-22 and earlier this year, I try and deadlift on the weekend when I'm fresh, but all the accessory training to go along with it like heavy rows, farmers carries, sled work, it's too hard. I can do most of my bench training and accessories, but the lower body/back side of things I have to take care of myself there



So looks like I'll go back to Armortech, their F10 is really all I need, I've seen some budget all in ones elsewhere, yet they've all got average smith's or the guide rods on the plate carriages are cheap, or cheap plastic pulleys among others. The F10 gazumps every entry level trainer I've seen based on what they've advertised online, Force USAs new G3 is much improved now as it looks a bit beefier, but it's $2700 now and they've still got plastic pulleys and average weight carriages for the functional trainer

The F10

• Aluminium pulleys are a huge plus
• The guide rods for the plate carriage are far better than other brands, looks like a bearing system rather than cheap plastic bushings that everyone else seems to use
• Chrome finishes everywhere, seems to hold far better long-term
• Laser cut numbering
• Armortech are coming out with more attachments over time now, they've got better j cups, dip handles, a long connector bar and a leg press plate now as add ons
• It doesn't look like much chop, but I can guarantee these improvements Armortech has here compared to other smith racks, particularly the old Force USA G3 and others similar to that will be worth the $1800+ investment

I'm not squatting so the lack of height on the smith won't bother me, would get my leg work in with the leg press plate, also not too bothered by not having westside spacing on bench, it's nice but altering the height of your bench is the way to get around it like chucking mats underneath



Will want to get this too, I've tried the stack version, it's excellent for the price point as a 2 in 1 row/pulldown so its plate loaded version will be coming in once I have my smith rack and mass storage sorted out

The little dumbbell toaster rack, the plate tripod at the front and a kettlebell rack at the back where you probably can't see will all be moved on eventually

If I have room I'll get my echo bike back amd maybe an attachment bench, but yeah, that'll be absolutely it for me I think in terms of major pieces, little bibs and bobs I'll still get like more attachments for cable or landmine, maybe another barbell or two, but that'll be my bread and butter I think.

 

[Mofra]

I'm more getting to the point that its not as functional as people make out. Having a 3x bodyweight deadlift does * all for martial arts. Do you think the top 5 guys in AFL have 3x bodyweight deadlifts? Do you think HAVING a 3x deadlift helps with the majority of sports?

You're assuming people in the gym are lifting to improve other sports.
The guys going for 1RMs are generally lifting heavy because lifting is their sport. They're setting personal goals that aren't designed to translate into someone else's hobby.

 

[faible]

I know people will disagree with me but I can't see any functional benefit to lifting heavy. I get if you're targeting the goal itself, or you have a specific sport that relies on maximal strength but in most cases it's absolutely pointless.

When in any real world situation do you need a 2x body weight squat or deadlift. When do you need more than 100K hip thrusts, bench press isn't functional.

I see more benefit ijn working on muscular endurance and smashing out reps over maximal strength and working on functional exercises. I think we only do what we do because it's all we know. It's all we've done because everyone does it. I know it's unpopular but I think lifting heavy is overrated.

Especially if we're talking about longevity, lifting heavy consistently is going to bring about increased strain on your body and joints. I think if you don't have a specific goal in mind then what's it doing for you?

There's a point beyond which diminishing returns kick in for sure, but everyone's goals are different.

If you're a runner there's a point where putting more time and effort in to lifting heavy beyond a point achieves no real benefit, if you're a powerlifter that'll be a very different equation, as it will for an average gym bro.

 

[Glorfindel]

Had a bit of an impulse buy and picked up one of these bad boys.
Now I just need to hire a truck to make a trip back down to Melb to pick it up along with the rest of my old garage gym lol.

 

[Coolangatta]

Anyone else doing full body 3x a week? If so, I'd love to see what your routine looks like, not so much in terms of the exercises but the volume.

 

[Glorfindel]

Anyone else doing full body 3x a week? If so, I'd love to see what your routine looks like, not so much in terms of the exercises but the volume.

I was doing it earlier in the year essentially having “heavy, medium, light” days for each exercise.
Basically set up like this, except I’d do a full week of this program in a single session eg Monday = week 1, Wednesday = week 2, Friday = week 3. Then just some rows, abs and cardio after squat/bench/deadlift.

http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Cube-Method-Program.jpg

The other thing I’ve done with clients in the past that has worked is run 5/3/1 but doing a month of the program in one week as well.