Strength Weight Training: Anything and Everything II

[Coolangatta]

I was doing it earlier in the year essentially having “heavy, medium, light” days for each exercise.
Basically set up like this, except I’d do a full week of this program in a single session eg Monday = week 1, Wednesday = week 2, Friday = week 3. Then just some rows, abs and cardio after squat/bench/deadlift.

http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Cube-Method-Program.jpg

The other thing I’ve done with clients in the past that has worked is run 5/3/1 but doing a month of the program in one week as well.

Yeah I was thinking of running 531 again since I’ve got the Forever book and it was working for me. Only reason I switched to GZCLP was because of the linear appeal of using the same weight for each working set.

But ramping up to a heavy set hasn’t caused me the same issues as doing the all out heavy set first or grinding out 2-4 reps of my 5 or 6RM.

I was just concerned about volume on the assistance work and not hitting the required 10 sets per body part a week for muscle growth, but I’d rather just follow a program as close to as written and pick 3 push/pull/single leg-an movements or whatever Wendler suggests for each template.

Edit: I also like that Wendler has several 3 day templates. I know GZCLP can be done 3 days a week but I’d prefer to hit my big four (Zercher, Trap Bar, OHP, Floor Press) every week without doing 4 days a week of training.

 

[Glorfindel]

I was just concerned about volume on the assistance work and not hitting the required 10 sets per body part a week for muscle growth,

It’s not too hard.
3 days of 3 sets of bench press gets you 9 sets for chest, shoulders and triceps (as an example).

 

[Coolangatta]

It’s not too hard.
3 days of 3 sets of bench press gets you 9 sets for chest, shoulders and triceps (as an example).

Got it.

I was overthinking it as usual haha. Counted bench as chest only etc. I’ve got a great balance of push, pull, chest, shoulder, ab work etc.

Happy going forward with my supplemental and assistance work lifts but need to figure out a better way going forward with main lifts.

To get stronger I need to get used to more heavy loads. I was making more progress than ever doing a ramp up to a 1RM.

Love the idea of ramping up to 1 or 2 or 3 RM as per the 22 proven rep schemes article I read.

Only problem is figuring out back off sets. I’d take off 20-30kg and do a couple of sets (8-10 reps).

Sounds good but again instead of doing 5 sets like GZCLP recommends I’m doing 3 for the main lift (2 being a lighter weight so much more supplemental).

In your experience, when you’re going for a 1-5 rep max, do you do two back off sets before you move on to the rest of the workout?

Four back off sets seems excessive just to hit 5 sets. Wendler’s 531 is just 3 sets so I think a couple of back offs like I was doing should be okay. It’s almost like 531 but in reverse, doing the heaviest set first.

I don’t think GZCLP is for me tbh.

I just love the mental challenge and feel of going for a heavy set and it doesn’t seem to drain me because I do full body 3x a week so it’s usually a ten day interval between going for a new Zercher 1RM etc.

 

[Glorfindel]

In your experience, when you’re going for a 1-5 rep max, do you do two back off sets before you move on to the rest of the workout?

tbh I've made my most progress by doing a 2nd exercise for a 1rm lol. eg squat + dead on same day then bench + overhead on same day followed by your more single joint/bodybuilding accessories.
When I have done back off sets, I've normally worked out the number by having a total number of sets (warm ups, 1rm, back offs) that I want to hit (normally 10). So if I hit my 1rm in 6 sets I'd do 4 back off sets. If I took 9 sets to hit my 1rm I'd do just 1 back off set.
I'm normally pretty conservative with both % and reps of back off sets though. As per a previous discussion I find repeated sets of 2-6ish reps at a high RPE/low RIR really beat me up.

 

[Coolangatta]

Glorfindel, that powerlifting template you shared with me (thanks btw, looks awesome, you're a mad bastard doing all three main lifts in one day haha); did you re-test your one rep max after the 9 week cycle (after the meet?). Or do those + sets from weeks 7-9 pretty much show you where you're at?

I really like your setup, reminds me a bit of Wendler 2 leader cycles then 1 anchor, I've found GZCL is not for me because you're always going for PRs every session and that just burns me out.

I had a good workout yesterday using that deadlift week 1 as the main lift (but with the trap bar) and then just doing 6 accessories that cover all the bases for pulling, arms, single leg, etc. Good to know I haven't lost any lower body strength, in fact I think I could hit a new 1RM for the trap bar.

Upper body is the challenging one, but a 3 day a week template rather than 4 days (3 days per week rotating) means I'll get more consistent, weekly floor pressing and overhead pressing (doing both of those on the same day but OHP will be 3x8-10 as going heavy on that has caused issues).

Plus I get to use the trap bar every week which I like using and it's almost like a hybrid squat so I don't think I'm missing out on leg volume just because I'd Zercher once a week (also doing Romanian deads and reverse lunges).

With Zercher's it really just comes down to probably not warming up (the body) and doing enough warm up sets but the Jacked and Tan thing with doing a 5RM and then trying to grind out 3-4 reps of my 5RM for a few more sets is just not recommended haha. Much better ways to train.

 

[Coolangatta]

Haha, I got chat GPT to review my exercise routine.

"Your program seems to provide a balanced approach to training different muscle groups. However, it's important to note that the exercises you've chosen may not target every muscle group equally. For instance, more emphasis could be placed on posterior chain development by including additional exercises like glute bridges or hamstring curls."

Easy fix. I do ab exercises on day 1 and 3. I can just double my rep target on day 1 and on day 3, swap out abs for banded leg curls. I stopped doing them once I got on to the black band because the attachment was difficult to get around thicker bands. No need to use the attachment, though, found it easier to just wrap the band around my ankles without tangling the band.

If anything, my only bone to pick with my own program is doing band lat pulls 1x a week but I do row variations 2x a week. Could swap out a curl exercise (since I'm doing 3x a week) for banded lat pull so I'm doing that 2x a week (one lying and one kneeling).

There's no calf exercises but no big deal imo, they are getting secondary stimulation from zerchers etc. Could throw them in one off day, I suppose, though, but ****in hate DOMS.

edit: might do calves, abs, banded face pull/pullapart on off days, super ease into calves to avoid DOMs, start off lightest weight possible, one set etc. wouldn't take more than 15 minutes to do this.

can do everything else 3x a week, 6 exercises per session (inc. 2x banded lat pulldowns).

 

[Glorfindel]

@Glorfindel, that powerlifting template you shared with me (thanks btw, looks awesome, you're a mad bastard doing all three main lifts in one day haha); did you re-test your one rep max after the 9 week cycle (after the meet?). Or do those + sets from weeks 7-9 pretty much show you where you're at?

Doing all 3 in the one session isn't too bad as long as you're a bit more conservative with the numbers.
What I was doing was using the "meet" week to take a 1rm which would give me numbers for the next 3-4 week cycle (9 weeks in that program).
eg
First cycle of squats I would take a front squat 1rm then do 3 weeks of front squats.
Second cycle of squats take a high bar 1rm then do 3 weeks of high bar squats.
Third cycle of squats take a low bar 1rm then do 3 weeks of low bar squats.
With 3 variations this would give me 9 weeks (for bench might run inclines, close grip then comp style bench and then deads maybe a deficit, off blocks then from the floor) of training before I needed to "repeat" a 1rm.

 

[Coolangatta]

Doing all 3 in the one session isn't too bad as long as you're a bit more conservative with the numbers.
What I was doing was using the "meet" week to take a 1rm which would give me numbers for the next 3-4 week cycle (9 weeks in that program).
eg
First cycle of squats I would take a front squat 1rm then do 3 weeks of front squats.
Second cycle of squats take a high bar 1rm then do 3 weeks of high bar squats.
Third cycle of squats take a low bar 1rm then do 3 weeks of low bar squats.
With 3 variations this would give me 9 weeks (for bench might run inclines, close grip then comp style bench and then deads maybe a deficit, off blocks then from the floor) of training before I needed to "repeat" a 1rm.

yeah I'll probably use the 10th week to "deload" by just working up to a 1RM then moving on to supplemental/accessory work.

 

[Glorfindel]

Coolangatta this article gives a decent summary of the premise of why I used that other program but crammed into a week.

Daily Undulating Periodization: The Bogeyman of Training Programs

A complete guide to Daily Undulating Periodization (DUP) and how to use it in your own training programs.

www.strongerbyscience.com

 

[Andre]

Hit a long time goal this morning with a 140kg front squat. My (sumo) deadlift only crawls, not much above 100kg, since it tweaks my back every few weeks then 2-3 not being able to do again Happy that front squats are at least (very) slowly, still going up. Also hit a PB (205kg) for sled push.

Upper body maxs still stalled. Don’t think I’ll ever reach 100kgs for bench press, despite doing weighted dips at BW (80kg) + 60kg.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Had a bit of an impulse buy and picked up one of these bad boys.
Now I just need to hire a truck to make a trip back down to Melb to pick it up along with the rest of my old garage gym lol.
View attachment 1726845

Cambered x SSB? How much and where from?

 

[Glorfindel]

Cambered x SSB? How much and where from?

Got the last one from the link below (I'd had my eye on one for ages and the stock was starting to dwindle so the second it got to the last one remaining I jumped on it). I suspect it won't hold up under heavy weights quite as well as your high quality comp squat bars or SSB etc.
But the design of the bar means you're probably only using 60-70% of what you would be with a straight bar so shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Cambered Spider Bar🕷

Cambered Spider Safety Squat Barbell DESCRIPTION:The Iso Gym Cambered Spider Bar is a great version of the Safety Squat Barbell which combines the Traditional Safety Squat Bar with a Cambered Bar design, using extra long handles to add stability during use.The cambered design alleviates the...

www.isogymsuppliers.com.au

 

[Glorfindel]

140kg front squat. My (sumo) deadlift only crawls, not much above 100kg

Inverse of me.
Would be lucky to front squat 120kg but have deadlifted 225kg raw and 250kg in a suit lol.

 

[Andre]

Inverse of me.
Would be lucky to front squat 120kg but have deadlifted 225kg raw and 250kg in a suit lol.

Bulging disc is my bane, for deadlifts. I get less tweaks / less severe with Sumo, but still every now and then. I don't want to drop them completely (didn't do deadlifts for years due to back, eased back (no pun intended) into very slowly), as they hit so much, but I've accepted it'll always be much weaker than it should be, compared to my front squats. I do Front squats, as back squats are out of the question with the disc. I'd do 70kg and I'd likely be crawling out of the gym crying like a baby.

 

[Mofra]

Bulging disc is my bane, for deadlifts. I get less tweaks / less severe with Sumo, but still every now and then. I don't want to drop them completely (didn't do for years), as they hit so much, but I've accepted it'll always be much weaker than it should be, compared to my front squats. I do Front squats, as back squats are out of the question with the disc. I'd do 70kg and I'd likely be crawling out of the gym crying like a baby.

I get hip soreness the day after deadlifts, been that way for 12 months. Hit 2x BW a little over a year ago, now stuck on 8 rep sets as anything heavier risks aggravating it.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Got the last one from the link below (I'd had my eye on one for ages and the stock was starting to dwindle so the second it got to the last one remaining I jumped on it). I suspect it won't hold up under heavy weights quite as well as your high quality comp squat bars or SSB etc.
But the design of the bar means you're probably only using 60-70% of what you would be with a straight bar so shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Cambered Spider Bar🕷

Cambered Spider Safety Squat Barbell DESCRIPTION:The Iso Gym Cambered Spider Bar is a great version of the Safety Squat Barbell which combines the Traditional Safety Squat Bar with a Cambered Bar design, using extra long handles to add stability during use.The cambered design alleviates the...

www.isogymsuppliers.com.au

Yeah interesting bar. I do most of my main leg work with a ssb - never really done much with a cambered bar due to how I squat (used to compete IPF). Think box squats with a cambered bar (or the bar you bought) would be great for hamstrings and glutes.

 

[Glorfindel]

Yeah interesting bar. I do most of my main leg work with a ssb - never really done much with a cambered bar due to how I squat (used to compete IPF). Think box squats with a cambered bar (or the bar you bought) would be great for hamstrings and glutes.

Cambered bar good mornings are also the closest I've found to my deadlift (apart from deadlifts themselves ofc).
Probably a bit like you I find the SSB a good squat builder as when I miss it tends to be because I get caught in that classic handcuff position due to upper back cave. Probably the only caveat is with the SSB you actually need to maintain that upper back extension to have good carryover - found out the hard way getting really strong with the SSB in a flexed position doesn't carryover all that well to a straight bar lol.

 

[Glorfindel]

Have been furloughed at week due to testing +ve for COVID on the weekend.
Think I have aligned the stars properly to do a mad dash down to Melbourne and back (7 hour round trip on its own) to pick up the rest of my tools, gym gear + stops for some extra timber & rubber flooring (to avoid drilling into the floor of the place I'm leasing).
Timber I'm just getting from Bunnings so should be fine, but the unknown is the guy I'm grabbing the flooring off. Trying to do it on a single day/24 hour truck hire but if he holds me up and I get back too late to start unloading could be cutting it a bit fine!
Starting off with a 4.8m x 3.6m area but will hopefully expand it to 4.8 x 7.2m later in the year (working in full sheets of ply for area is easier than 1m x 1m mats haha).

 

[go you pups]

Hit a long time goal this morning with a 140kg front squat. My (sumo) deadlift only crawls, not much above 100kg, since it tweaks my back every few weeks then 2-3 not being able to do again Happy that front squats are at least (very) slowly, still going up. Also hit a PB (205kg) for sled push.

Upper body maxs still stalled. Don’t think I’ll ever reach 100kgs for bench press, despite doing weighted dips at BW (80kg) + 60kg.

That's weird how you can move 140kg total weight but struggle for a 3 figure bench

I did a 6-7 week bench program over Xmas and that got me a 150kg PR in mid January

Basically was

1st week 6 sets of 6 all at 110kg
2nd week 5 sets of 5: 110-120kg microload progression
3rd week 4 sets of 4: 120, 122.5, 125x2 sets
4th week 3 sets of 3: 127, 130, 133, also got a double in at 135 as I was feeling good
5th week 2 sets of 2: this was a previously challenging weight at 140kg but got through it well
6th week was a deload week
7th week I hit the PR 2nd attempt

Otherwise tricep work helps, heavy rows help, smith machine eccentric bench helps too

 

[Jugada]

Sounds like weaker shoulders to me if you are struggling on bench but can dip 140kg. What's your overhead press like?


Also if your back is constantly playing up with deadlifts then there is absolutely no point in doing them. Sure they are a good exercise but they are by no means essential and can easily be covered for with a number of other exercises that will be safer on your back

 

[go you pups]

Bit of a quiet patch at work lately, so I'm getting into gym around lunchtime a bit last few weeks, trying to eat better again, go for more walks with the better weather etc

Training back twice a week again has come on good quickly, deadlifted 140kg doubles on Monday (doing deadlifts on leg day again now as I can squeeze in the extra back day now), felt ok heaviest I've gone for like 2 months staying in the 100-130kg maintenance range previously, but yeah I think the extra back workout a week is helping on that front. OHP slowly coming on again, didn't really peter off on bench, just mixing it up still there, probably training a bit more incline lately but flat bench isn't struggling at least when I have say a week or 2 off from it.

I think I can train this way like 3-4 months of the year, mainly hard 5-6 days a week (probably 11 sessions a fortnight), then revert back to mostly 4 day a week bro splits mainly training at home when work is a busy grind.



Put a deposit on that Armortech smith functional trainer too, getting a few accessories with it too, leg press plate, cable connector straight bar, dip handles. Looking forward to chest day on it when I get it.

 

[Andre]

Sounds like weaker shoulders to me if you are struggling on bench but can dip 140kg. What's your overhead press like?


Also if your back is constantly playing up with deadlifts then there is absolutely no point in doing them. Sure they are a good exercise but they are by no means essential and can easily be covered for with a number of other exercises that will be safer on your back

My overhead press isn't great. I don't do low reps, so plugging numbers into 1RM calculator, it comes out at around 65kg. Which seems a bit strange as can do 5 handstand push-ups (against wall, as balance isn't great). So how can I do 5x80kg (upside down), but max of OH press is around 65kg

 

[Coolangatta]

My overhead press isn't great. I don't do low reps, so plugging numbers into 1RM calculator, it comes out at around 65kg. Which seems a bit strange as can do 5 handstand push-ups (against wall, as balance isn't great). So how can I do 5x80kg (upside down), but max of OH press is around 65kg

My shoulders don't like heavy OHP either. I just program seated dumbbell shoulder presses into my 3x a week routine, 3 sets of 8-12 reps and go up as the reps hit 11-12 a set. Lat raises and banded work for extra shoulder stimulus. Flat and incline dumbbell benching and floor pressing gives my shoulders stimulation, just not as a primary movement.

I have the same issue as you, though; trap bar and zercher 1RMs are 180 and 125 respectively, but I struggle going above 75kg for floor pressing. Upper body just isn't as strong but when I didn't know I was doing I was always doing more leg work because I was very limited as to what I could do with upper body without a bench or a rack. But my dumbbell chest work is progressing.

 

[Glorfindel]

Still a few smaller items to slowly take up but got the main stuff (rack, flooring and bars) up last night.

 

[Glorfindel]

So how can I do 5x80kg (upside down), but max of OH press is around 65kg

Unless you’re doing deficit HSPU the ROM is a fair bit less than an overhead press done with a barbell from the chest/shoulder.
That and strength is very specific so you can be good at one movement and not so good at another despite superficially it looking like there should be a lot of carryover.