Toast Welcome to Hawthorn, Finn Maginness “absolute Hawthorn nuffie” and a Hawk to 2027

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I think his disposal has improved massively.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

i think having a bloke that can come in and completely blanket the opposition's best player is a pretty useful situational weapon

even if he doesn't evolve from here i think it's a valuable use of a late list spot. not every player 30-44 needs to be young and developing

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think a quality tagger is a weapon - Brett Kirk and Cameron Ling come to mind as players who can just completely nullify the best midfielder in a side. It takes enormous pressure off the rest of our midfield and forces teams to find a plan B. Nope too valuable to throw and will definitely be snapped up by someone else (Sydney and stKilda won't believe their lucky stars of we let him go

You're talking about players from 15 years ago though.

The game has changed, every player needs to be dangerous and useful.

 

[NICE1]

You're talking about players from 15 years ago though.

The game has changed, every player needs to be dangerous and useful.

Spot on. I think it's not overly difficult to find a midfielder that can blanket an opposition player and still have a substantial impact the other way - that's what Finn is up against.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

i think having a bloke that can come in and completely blanket the opposition's best player is a pretty useful situational weapon

even if he doesn't evolve from here i think it's a valuable use of a late list spot. not every player 30-44 needs to be young and dedeveloping we play

We play the Pies soon.. He blankets Daicos he stays. He's still young plenty of development left.

 

[tommyk72]

You're talking about players from 15 years ago though.

The game has changed, every player needs to be dangerous and useful.

That's not what you're arguing about Ned Reeves in the gameday thread.

Finn also has an exceptionally elite trait that he hasn't quite converted into a threat yet. Same principle.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That's not what you're arguing about Ned Reeves in the gameday thread.

Finn also has an exceptionally elite trait that he hasn't quite converted into a threat yet. Same principle.

That’s actually exactly what I’m arguing in the game day thread.
Reeves’ ability at the stoppages gives us an advantage in a key area of the ground each week.

Maginness can run around and shadow a player and that’s about it.

 

[Lawsy]

Ned may give us an advantage in 1 key area, hitouts/clearances, but elsewhere around the ground, he offers nothing. With this advantage, I'd suggest opposition coaches are now planning for that and devising methods to limit the influence, much like Sam did our era of team dominance without a dominant ruck.

Against the Giants, Briggs destroyed Ned and gave the Giants forwards heaps of opportunities by outworking Ned and getting the ball into their F50. The advantage is nullified if his opponent give the opposition a significant advantage in other key areas of the ground. 8 x I50 from Briggs, none from Ned

I see the same parallels with both Ned and Finn as alluded to by tommyk72

 

[cryptor]

That’s actually exactly what I’m arguing in the game day thread.
Reeves’ ability at the stoppages gives us an advantage in a key area of the ground each week.

Maginness can run around and shadow a player and that’s about it.

"Shadow a player"? That's a pretty disingenuous way of describing his tagging performances. He made Kelly a non-factor in last weeks game. And he's done the same to quite a few influential players last year.

It'd be like someone saying all Reeves does is plod around and gets hitouts and that's about it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

"Shadow a player"? That's a pretty disingenuous way of describing his tagging performances. He made Kelly a non-factor in last weeks game. And he's done the same to quite a few influential players last year.

It'd be like someone saying all Reeves does is plod around and gets hitouts and that's about it.

That’s pretty much what’s been said about Reeves most weeks.

Maginness is almost solely a run-with player. He barely gets the ball himself and when he does he doesn’t really have any tricks.

When the whips are cracking we’ll want every player who runs through the middle to be capable of being offensive and dangerous with ball in hand.

 

[eldorado]

If he is happy playing a limited amount of games each year as a pure tagger, when that is required, he is a luxury to have on the list, to use when needed...

At the moment, he's not best 22 when that specific role isn't needed, and the danger is, unless he can improve his skills, quickness of mind, and decision-making, he will fall further from best 22 over the next few years, as the younger ones come through.

A lot of his playing future depends on whether Sam sees the pure 'tagging' role as something he sees us using more or less over the next few years.

 

[hardway]

Finn should be moved onto the rookie list to open up a draft pick selection. He doesn’t offer enough outside tagging to take up a spot on the main list.

 

[PenAndPaper]

That’s actually exactly what I’m arguing in the game day thread.
Reeves’ ability at the stoppages gives us an advantage in a key area of the ground each week.

Maginness can run around and shadow a player and that’s about it.

I'm not Finn's biggest fan but the he kept a bloke who averages almost 29 possessions a game this year to 6, while also having 15 himself. That is an incredible game.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm not Finn's biggest fan but the he kept a bloke who averages almost 29 possessions a game this year to 6, while also having 15 himself. That is an incredible game.

It is a great game. Still don’t know if there’s a future for him playing that role each week, as we’ll begin to trust our own offensive weapons more as the team develops and players like MacKenzie and Weddle start to punish the opposition with their ball use.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

idk i do think Sam actually likes having that lockdown player in the side. last year Finn looked like he was pretty cemented in our best 22, his last 7 games were quite good

i think the problem for Finn is that Nash is simply playing much better football than anyone expected. he plays a defensive role while getting multiple clearances, and 25+ possessions pretty much every week. admittedly he doesn't shut blokes down as hard as finn does, but he still fulfills that niche in our 22

finn's advantage here is that he can play as a defender or fwd too. which as RR pointed out is super valuable against blokes like Daicos, Dawson, Harley Reid etc. these multi-position young blokes who are gonna dominate the league the next decade

but i think we've also seen Sam is pretty brutal on players he sees as one-trick-ponies. we have targeted players with multiple elite attributes and skills. so is Finn's trick good enough to keep him on the list over say Long or Kosi?

 

[Agent_99]

Pawn takes Bishop

 

[cryptor]

That’s pretty much what’s been said about Reeves most weeks.

Maginness is almost solely a run-with player. He barely gets the ball himself and when he does he doesn’t really have any tricks.

When the whips are cracking we’ll want every player who runs through the middle to be capable of being offensive and dangerous with ball in hand.

I know it is. And it's overly simplistic and undersells the great value Reeve's strengths provide. But it's also exactly what you've done here by saying Maginness just runs around shadowing a player. When in reality his proven tagging ability can essentially take the oppositions best midfielder out of the game completely.

It doesn't make him best 22, and I'm certainly not advocating for him to get a game every week (or even most weeks) just to do tagging job on someone. But I do think being that good (perhaps even the best in the league) at a specialist role that effectively eliminates the impact of a key opposition midfielder earns him more time on the list to show he could be more.

 

[tommyk72]

That’s actually exactly what I’m arguing in the game day thread.
Reeves’ ability at the stoppages gives us an advantage in a key area of the ground each week.

Maginness can run around and shadow a player and that’s about it.

1. You don’t think that blanketing Josh Kelly to 6 touches is an elite trait?

2. The potential advantage provided by Reeves is not actually turning into a reality for the team.

I’m a huge reeves fan, but the Mginness is giving more to the team than Ned right now, and they both have the potential to grow even more going forward.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

1. You don’t think that blanketing Josh Kelly to 6 touches is an elite trait?

2. The potential advantage provided by Reeves is not actually turning into a reality for the team.

I’m a huge reeves fan, but the Mginness is giving more to the team than Ned right now, and they both have the potential to grow even more going forward.

1. No, not really.

2. Except that it is in the form of clearances.

I find the last paragraph laughable, considering how important centre clearances are in todays game.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I know it is. And it's overly simplistic and undersells the great value Reeve's strengths provide. But it's also exactly what you've done here by saying Maginness just runs around shadowing a player. When in reality his proven tagging ability can essentially take the oppositions best midfielder out of the game completely.

It doesn't make him best 22, and I'm certainly not advocating for him to get a game every week (or even most weeks) just to do tagging job on someone. But I do think being that good (perhaps even the best in the league) at a specialist role that effectively eliminates the impact of a key opposition midfielder earns him more time on the list to show he could be more.

I can see where that might happen, but I also see a future where he’s not required.

 

[burner1]

Feel like he’s still showing enough incremental improvement to keep around for another year. His kicking has improved (not there yet) but has added ability to play down back this year. If we hadn’t had such a good run with injury expect he’d a played a fair bit more.

Would love to know what the club think.

 

[Brishawk]

If you read through the box hill reviews they dont just refer to finn as a tagger but as a guy who can defend the field and while the ball is in transition through his running power and positioning. Tagging is great but not always needed. But defending the field is something our side as been terrible at and i was glad to see finn come back in for this reason (even though he mostly just followed kelly around). Similar to how shiels allowed our attacking mids to attack, finn can allow our attacking outside players to attack and he can cover opposition players as the push forward into our defensive half.

Not suggesting he is there yet but that is the role it appears he could excel at in our best 22.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

At this stage there is still a spot on our list for Finn, Its up to him if he keeps it in the future.

At this stage we have a spot for a tagger, Finn is young and has development left in him. I am sure Sam will throw the challange down to Finn. The outcome is in the lads hands. I am confident he will rise to the challange.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

That’s pretty much what’s been said about Reeves most weeks.

Maginness is almost solely a run-with player. He barely gets the ball himself and when he does he doesn’t really have any tricks.

When the whips are cracking we’ll want every player who runs through the middle to be capable of being offensive and dangerous with ball in hand.

I suspect that in today's world every AFL player is capable of being offensive to someone...

 

[SJT76]

Keeper. He is rarely beaten and brings what we lack most - defensive pressure.

He went back to BH and improved his work as a pure defender. His disposal is improving too. His existing attributes plus his drive to improve makes him part of our future.

Remember - he plays on the opposition’s most damaging player each week, and regularly gets more disposals than them. A 0-0 draw is still a win, but he’s winning these battles straight up.