WSYD West Sydney is AFL's Vietnam

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Bit of contradiction there. Why would the networks pay more for one extra game in such a small market, when they already have it covered? Do the TV networks even care about ratings in Hobart/Tas at all?

Why would TV networks pay for one more extra game in Sydney, when the current home team don't even rate a mention on the local TV guide? Don't know if you have been living in Sydney lately, but there aren't too many who tune into the Swans games live on tv?

But, hey i admit there is a potential to grasp the captivation of a large population, just as there is potential for Bangladesh to launch a manned space mission to Mars.

Rugby league is not dead in the water there, it will allways be strongly supported, and especially in West Sydney you will get the shite kicked out of you for supporting a perceived 'pussy' code such as the AFL....will just not work now.

Guess the AFL is all knowing though huh...

 

[desie]

Response from Dale Holmes in relation to the crap in the Sydney papers today:

Following today’s newspaper reports the AFL would like to reassure the football community of the following;

The AFL Commission has again reiterated its support for the establishment of the 18th team in Western Sydney in 2012.

On Monday April 27, the Commission made it clear that it understands the challenges ahead and is committed to the 2012 target date.

A team in Western Sydney will provide new jobs and economic activity in the region as well as providing significant community activity and opportunities for Western Sydney families.

To date the AFL has already invested significantly in the development of the code to build community infrastructure and community and sporting opportunities for the families of Greater Western Sydney and we will continue to do so as we move towards establishing a team in greater Western Sydney.

The process in establishing that team will unfold over the coming months with one of the key tasks being the establishment of a local Greater Western Sydney advisory committee. We currently have more than 35 local business, community and sporting identities who are keen to see the establishment of a new national sporting team in the region.

There are a number of stadium options being discussed and we will continue to discuss them with a range of stakeholders, including government.

We are committed to developing football throughout NSW and particularly in the greater Western Sydney region as we move through the process of establishing a second team, and our code is grateful for the fantastic work of our development workers and local clubs, volunteers, councils, schools and communities in building strong participation in our game.

We will continue to work with the local communities and to invest in local communities to build the growth of the game and the sporting, social and economic benefits that the game provides..

We will also continue to keep you and all members of the wider football family and the communities in Greater Western Sydney informed as this exciting process continues.

 

[madmug]

I'd suggest the expansion problem is not the risk in starting another GC team & a West Sydney franchise. I believe that not expanding has long term implications for the future of Aussie rules. The problem for Tassie is that the game is slowly being sucked dry by the AFL who put almost nothing into the game here. Hawthorn are just another financial busted arse mob who are here to take, take, take. Why do so many Victorian suburban teams who are proped up financially get to play in a so called National competition. Tasmania offers the competition a lot more than many of those suburbs ever could. No, Tassie is stymied by nothing more than Victorian greed & selfishness. The game will suffer for this in the longer term unless the Victorian AFL accept that it is the AFL & not the VFL any more. I defy anyone to give reason why Tassie couldnt mix it in the competition. The economics are proven. The Passion for the game is real. GIVE US A BLOODY GO

 

[Cthublhu]

Response from Dale Holmes in relation to the crap in the Sydney papers today:

A team in Western Sydney will provide new jobs and economic activity in the region as well as providing significant community activity and opportunities for Western Sydney families.

To date the AFL has already invested significantly in the development of the code to build community infrastructure and community and sporting opportunities for the families of Greater Western Sydney and we will continue to do so as we move towards establishing a team in greater Western Sydney.

Did Kevin Rudd help write this ****?

 

[Rowie09]

AFL and Western Sydney = Khrushchev and The Virgin Lands Program

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Did Kevin Rudd help write this ****?

Ha ha, Good ol Kev...it depends on whether its received well whether or not he puts his name to it

As for Madmug....i feel for you mate, i really do. The AFL need to realise that they are not a business in the traditional sense. They are an entity designed, not to profit, but to act in the best interests of the game, its development and its supporters (you and me).

Tassie is getting screwed, AFL footy is getting screwed.....the interest, the polls all point towards allowing a Tasmanian team ahead of Western Sydney. Not even the people in West Sydney argue with this point (if they do, could a West Sydney supporter please respond to this). Demeteriou is not listening to the people who float the AFL - the fans. The mere fact that the West Sydney project wouldn't be as profitable as made out, and in fact it would (like the current Swans) be a long term liability, is irrelevant to the point - because profits shouldn't dictate the interest of the game at heart. The interest is not West Sydney - the interest is in things like State of Origin, Contested ball footy where a slap on the back doesn't constitute a 5 month penalty and of course putting a team in a State that has been a bloody big contributor towards football for over 150 years....


Let us also not forget that Melbourne is just a mere colony of Tasmania and there must be some constitutional ruling to be able to allow Tasmania a bloody chance at establishing a team.

 

[babyg]

I just can't see how Sydney who rates about 70k per game on tv can possibly generate the money in the next tv rights to prop up another team over the next 5-10 years. Surely the networks aren't stupid enough to pay for a 2nd team when the first one doesn't rate.

 

[Cuzz09]

enter tassie

yes!!

 

[desie]

Rugby league is not dead in the water there, it will allways be strongly supported, and especially in West Sydney you will get the shite kicked out of you for supporting a perceived 'pussy' code such as the AFL....will just not work now.

What absolute garbage

To continue with the analogy, I have been fighting the good fight on the ground in western Sydney for almost 30 years, so I think I have some sort of idea, unlike those who blew in yesterday or have never lived here and speak with such authority on something they know very little about.

Some posters such as Glory and Fame are worth listening to, at least he has some idea of what he's talking about through experience.

The fact is that there are 2 million in western Sydney who contribute little or nothing to the overall Australian Football "pie". Clearly it is going to take a lot of money and probably 15-20 years for people to start to see real progress, but in the long term it will be worth it.

Sure, there are the rusted on League fans who won't give it the time of day, but bear in mind, just 9,000 turned up to the game in Penrith on Monday night, and games at Homebush between traditional Sydney clubs are lucky to draw 15,000. The point is that while League is quite clearly and always will be number one, they hardly vote with their feet.

There is a certain level of apathy that is exuded by the Sydney public towards sport that you just don't see in other cities.

If you spend some time in the Blacktown area for example given that this is where the club will be based, you will note the large percentage of migrants from the sub-continent and Asia. There are also a notable number of Islanders, but these people tend to be traditionally drawn to the Rugby codes.

Clearly if the AFL concentrate on the community aspect and look to draw in those that are not currently drawn to any particular football code, and there are many, then in the long term this thing can work.

No-one's pretending it will be easy though.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

What absolute garbage

To continue with the analogy, I have been fighting the good fight on the ground in western Sydney for almost 30 years, so I think I have some sort of idea, unlike those who blew in yesterday or have never lived here and speak with such authority on something they know very little about.

Some posters such as Glory and Fame are worth listening to, at least he has some idea of what he's talking about through experience.

The fact is that there are 2 million in western Sydney who contribute little or nothing to the overall Australian Football "pie". Clearly it is going to take a lot of money and probably 15-20 years for people to start to see real progress, but in the long term it will be worth it.

Sure, there are the rusted on League fans who won't give it the time of day, but bear in mind, just 9,000 turned up to the game in Penrith on Monday night, and games at Homebush between traditional Sydney clubs are lucky to draw 15,000. The point is that while League is quite clearly and always will be number one, they hardly vote with their feet.

There is a certain level of apathy that is exuded by the Sydney public towards sport that you just don't see in other cities.

If you spend some time in the Blacktown area for example given that this is where the club will be based, you will note the large percentage of migrants from the sub-continent and Asia. There are also a notable number of Islanders, but these people tend to be traditionally drawn to the Rugby codes.

Clearly if the AFL concentrate on the community aspect and look to draw in those that are not currently drawn to any particular football code, and there are many, then in the long term this thing can work.

No-one's pretending it will be easy though.

Mate it sounds like you have championed a second team for some time, point taken. But i would dare point out that you are a large exception to the rule. Tasmanians have been crying out for recognition for sometime and then they have to bend over and take it when the AFL hands a licence to West Sydney who had to have AFL administrators convince them of the appeal of second team? I have spent time in the area too, and yes, it wasn't long, but it was long enough to determine that the large proportion of the community would not really take to AFL - sure some would, but compared to Tasmania the amoung would be miniscule.

As was pointed out also by babyg - Sydney rake in only 70k per game via television; this is clearly not enough to generate and support interest and financial viability to another Sydney based team. I just have not seen any evidence of fact or figure that supports an introduction of another team to sydney; i would gladly retract everything that i have argued about if i could actually see some numbers relating to West Sydney that are not speculative.

As you point out, it will take 15-20 years to establish, thats fine and is an area the AFL can work on - but to do this by granting a full licence and then furthermore financially supporting the team at the expense of AFL funds is just ludicrous, especially given this time frame.

Tasmania has presented figures, secured backing from both government and major sponsors, won countless opinion polls, supported the game traditionally for over 100 years, got ready made AFL venues, and more importantly has the backing of 100's of thousands of two headed locals hungry to finally get behind a team.

West Sydney - what has that actually put out there yet other than 'promises' of converting a bunch of people, who as you point out, don't even support the traditional established codes of the region - what basis, what concret evidence have we that this area deserves a team?

 

[desie]

West Sydney - what has that actually put out there yet other than 'promises' of converting a bunch of people, who as you point out, don't even support the traditional established codes of the region - what basis, what concret evidence have we that this area deserves a team?

I think this is the bottom line.

If the major criteria is who is "deserving" then there is no contest, it's Tassie all the way.

If you're talking in terms of "conversion" and "upside", which is clearly the road that the AFL has taken, then it's western Sydney that wins.

 

[Mr Lizard]

The AFL need to realise that they are not a business in the traditional sense. They are an entity designed, not to profit....

Look, I'm no stranger to idealism, but at this point in your post...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!




...and I could read no further.


AFL = Big Business. End of story.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Look, I'm no stranger to idealism, but at this point in your post...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!




...and I could read no further.


AFL = Big Business. End of story.

You will also note that i still argue Western Sydney would be a poor financial choice anyways - you are right, AFL does = money, it shouldn't but it does, and from that pure stance West Sydney is a poor choice.

Look, somebody post one relevant figure which will convince me that West Sydney won't have to be personally funded from the AFL over 20 years and i will gladly go ahead with that opinion.

Hypothetically speaking .... if West Sydney required an initial grant from the AFL of 5 million and an additional 1 million a year (that is a conservative estimate) than over lets just say 10 years, then that would amount to 15 million dollars. So for the West Sydney experiment to break even after 10 years, they would have to not only be self sustaining, but have enough vested interest to make up a 15 million dollar difference.... Considering the current profitability, or lack thereof, of the Sydney Swans and the lack of profit being generated from their viewing audience (70k, as was posted before)...then i just can't see where the money is going to be coming from? Can somebody please enlighten me as to how a second team in West Sydney will generate income to the game when the current established one, a premiership team of 2005, can't?

Give me 1 person interested in a Western Sydney membership (and by that i mean a membership thats not given away by the AFL in the interests of promotion) and i will show you a 100 people willing to buy a Tasmanian one.

The whole thing is an absolute farce

 

[Mr Lizard]

I don't think the AFL is looking at break-even figures over the next 10-20 years. I'd suggest they are looking a bit more long-term than that, and are proceeding knowing they will most likely have to fund the venture themselves for the next 10-20 years in the face of criticism like what you are providing.

And yet they are proceeding anyway?


Call them muppets, call them what you like (I know I disagree with a lot they serve up), but they are in the business of making money, and they are pretty good at it.

HOT PIES! ONLY $9.95! GET 'EM WHILE THEY'RE STILL LUKEWARM! HOT PIES!

 

[InformedOpinion]

The ignorance of Victorian supporters - of which I used to be one before moving to Sydney 10 years ago - is breathtaking.

Get out of your bubble and look at the bigger picture.

There is a land-grab going on for the hearts and minds of the two states that hold 50% of Australia's population - NSW and Qld. Thank God the AFL has the balls to take part and compete for its long-term future.

Being the biggest show in Melbourne will not count for much in the future when we have the Soccer World Cup here and a balanced A-League national competition of 14 clubs evenly distributed throughout Australia.

Wake up you fools and stop undermining our game.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Guess the AFL is all knowing though huh...

'Hey, don't we already have this area covered anyway?'
'Yeah, but never before could we have a team that collectively adds....well no new people, but a bunch of people who already bought our merchandise and signed up for our clubs memberships, were exposed to our sponsors products and watched our TV coverage, just this time in one big block, in a market which we, the TV networks, and our sponors don't even monitor or base decisions on anyway....'

Makes economic sense!

 

[Mr Lizard]

There is a land-grab going on for the hearts and minds of the two states that hold 50% of Australia's population - NSW and Qld. Thank God the AFL has the balls to take part and compete for its long-term future.

Being the biggest show in Melbourne will not count for much in the future when we have the Soccer World Cup here and a balanced A-League national competition of 14 clubs evenly distributed throughout Australia.

Nicely put. NRL is about as relevant as Karl Marx. Soccer is the communist insurgence in this analogy, as far as that analogy holds.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... There is a land-grab going on for the hearts and minds of the two states that hold 50% of Australia's population - NSW and Qld. ... Being the biggest show in Melbourne will not count for much in the future when we have the Soccer World Cup here and a balanced A-League national competition of 14 clubs evenly distributed throughout Australia.

Wake up you fools and stop undermining our game.

Actually its 55% - and its also already over 23 X Tassies sparse, stagnant, population.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I don't think the AFL is looking at break-even figures over the next 10-20 years. I'd suggest they are looking a bit more long-term than that, and are proceeding knowing they will most likely have to fund the venture themselves for the next 10-20 years in the face of criticism like what you are providing.

And yet they are proceeding anyway?


Call them muppets, call them what you like (I know I disagree with a lot they serve up), but they are in the business of making money, and they are pretty good at it.

HOT PIES! ONLY $9.95! GET 'EM WHILE THEY'RE STILL LUKEWARM! HOT PIES!

Whether they are good at or not ill hold my opinion.... They haven't exactly turned clubs into sustainable parts of their business wheel...The AFL has been propped up by lucrative TV sponsorship deals thats pretty much it. Demetriou is a clown in a suit...his credentials are laughable, my mother could have made money out of selling the AFL to a combination of pay and high bidding public tv.

They ****ed themselves on the Stadium deals...didn't show much foresight with that did they? Scrapping local stadiums that would have netted clubs and AFL revenue that would not be swallowed up by either the MCC or Ethiad / whatever you want to call it stadium.

Yes, the AFL is run by a bunch of muppets, ex football players who somehow found there way into high ranking positions and paying themselves exoburent amounts (totalling around the same as the annulised debts of some clubs) - Perhaps Demetriou should just self fund his own personal team, there is probably more funds available than to the Western Sydneysiders.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Nicely put. NRL is about as relevant as Karl Marx. Soccer is the communist insurgence in this analogy, as far as that analogy holds.

First thing was, hey we lost Vietnam. But we stopped communism.

I believe the AFL cant afford not to have two teams in NSW and QLD. But im also of the belief that in 10-20 years a third West Australian team will be viable, along with an operation from Tasmania.

I mean once West Sydney has been in the AFL long enough it will be viable, i can picture 60,000+ showing up for a Sydney v Western Sydney Derby. Sydney thinks it's Australia, give them two teams to amuse themselves with, it's the only way to bring them to the sport.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

'Hey, don't we already have this area covered anyway?'
'Yeah, but never before could we have a team that collectively adds....well no new people, but a bunch of people who already bought our merchandise and signed up for our clubs memberships, were exposed to our sponsors products and watched our TV coverage, just this time in one big block, in a market which we, the TV networks, and our sponors don't even monitor or base decisions on anyway....'

Makes economic sense!

As opposed to forking out multi million's to run a club that would establish a base of 10 t-shirt buying fans, who may take their AFL funded memberships along with them to the claim the standard 10% discount from their local McDonalds.

Running a business at a loss makes perfect economic sense

 

[SM]

First thing was, hey we lost Vietnam. But we stopped communism.

Vietnam is still communist today, isn't it? America went into that war on completely stupid beliefs as they were shown to be when they lost the war. Just because they claimed that if Vietnam fell so would all of South-East Asia does not mean that that was indeed the aims of the North... they just wanted a unified country and communism was a means to an end.

/end history rant

 

[kaypee]

there is one overwhelming reason to forge ahead with west sydney: it annoys all the right people.

 

[harmesy 37]

Did Kevin Rudd help write this ****?

If Kevin Rudd wrote it it would be "working families" not just "families" said 20 times in a speech as you pointed out. who is his spin doctor?

He is the king of spin but most people are blind to it. We are entering dangerous times with the "global economic meltdown" said 20 times to ensure that people are aware it isn't his fault that Australia is in a bind...he is doing all he can by spending and spending and spending. Mr spendvision our mr rudd....

just the same as all the other previous labor govts since 1972/3. failures.

 

[big_red29]

amen.....please afl please enter tazzie! imagine the insults we can throw at the apple isle boys!!! this really needs to happen! we should consider a team from uzbekistan before west sydney for christ sake! any nicknames or jumper ideas for a tazzie team ppl??