WSYD West Sydney is AFL's Vietnam

[harmesy 37]

I am in two minds about the timing for Western Sydney... i think they need more grassroots footy there before stepping in - but what is alarming is the media barrage from the Daily Telegraph.


Boy does that paper have it in for the Australian game. Are we in Leeds England or Sydney Australia? Sydney is in Australia isn't it? or maybe i have that wrong.


Anyway all the Telegraph's vitriol and hatred to Australian Rules is pretty transparent. Just read some of their articles..."battleground" interviews with disgrunted league people who rip up this or that...and not one interview with an Australian Football supporter... very odd paper that one. Mein Kampf move over, Mein Telegraph is stepping up to the breach.

 

[Chook Norris]

Rugby league is on its knees and we need to put the sword in to the low-lifes.

10 years ago there was virtually no AFL in western sydney. Now we have 30,000 Auskickers introducing their parents to the game. It is generational but we must fight and as John Kennedy said - don't think, DO!

How is RL on its knees? how do you justify this statement? crowds? crowds in RL have always been traditionally low, in fact.. RL crowds have been increasing in a steady rate over the last 10-20 years

10 years ago there was virtually no AFL in western sydney, and today.. it remains 'virtually the same'

FACT: RL has over 20,204 registered players in Western Sydney
so are you saying that AFL has more registered players in Western Sydney than RL?
FACT: AFL or "Aussie Rules" has 2929.
that 30,000 Auskick number has you fooled that they are all registered and regular participants... when in fact, it was proven that the AFL count even those who participate once or twice- to inflate their figures to justify the existence of a second AFL team.

 

[SM]

FACT: AFL or "Aussie Rules" has 2929.
that 30,000 Auskick number has you fooled that they are all registered and regular participants... when in fact, it was proven that the AFL count even those who participate once or twice- to inflate their figures to justify the existence of a second AFL team.

So... the AFL has 10% as many players as RL in RL's heartland? That's still pretty good reason to bring in a second team. It'd also massively boost Sydney crowds. I know if I could only go to one game a season it'd definately be against those bloody Western Bogans.

 

[Riggy1]

How is RL on its knees? how do you justify this statement? crowds? crowds in RL have always been traditionally low, in fact.. RL crowds have been increasing in a steady rate over the last 10-20 years

10 years ago there was virtually no AFL in western sydney, and today.. it remains 'virtually the same'

FACT: RL has over 20,204 registered players in Western Sydney
so are you saying that AFL has more registered players in Western Sydney than RL?
FACT: AFL or "Aussie Rules" has 2929.
that 30,000 Auskick number has you fooled that they are all registered and regular participants... when in fact, it was proven that the AFL count even those who participate once or twice- to inflate their figures to justify the existence of a second AFL team.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=63

 

[kaypee]

How is RL on its knees? how do you justify this statement? crowds? crowds in RL have always been traditionally low, in fact.. RL crowds have been increasing in a steady rate over the last 10-20 years

10 years ago there was virtually no AFL in western sydney, and today.. it remains 'virtually the same'

FACT: RL has over 20,204 registered players in Western Sydney
so are you saying that AFL has more registered players in Western Sydney than RL?
FACT: AFL or "Aussie Rules" has 2929.
that 30,000 Auskick number has you fooled that they are all registered and regular participants... when in fact, it was proven that the AFL count even those who participate once or twice- to inflate their figures to justify the existence of a second AFL team.

i gather the afl has worked out, as has the ffa, that league's growth has stagnated, and what growth there is is confined largely to those that already hold the game dear. having just 20,000 league players in western sydney is sort of the point: league's appeal is limited, and there are alot of people out there in supposed league heartlands (cairns included) who ignore it. they're the people australian football hopes to attract. good luck with that steady increase in nrl crowds: has it even matched population growth?
the afl, for all its faults, isn't going to throw money at west sydney because of auskick numbers, inflated or otherwise. know this: australian football is more widely followed than league, gets more bums on seats, and more eyeballs on the tele. its growth will be in areas where it is not currently widely followed ie west sydney. professional australian football in sydney will succeed, maybe not tomorrow, but the day after that.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Its all such bollocks...

The AFL's position is that they want to entice a new demographic - as was rightly pointed out, to official sponsors products (as it will obviously be sponsorship both club and AFL that will prop this venture up, because it sure as hell won't be through support). However,where the AFL are failing is in their perception of West Sydney people being 'New' to the market. These are the same people who have blatantly been ignoring the Swans for 20 years, why would they jump on the West bandwagon? This is also the same area that is only pulling 10k crowds to already established codes like League and Soccer. Why do the AFL commission insist on targeting this area when it will take one gargantuin effort (and incredible pools of money) to resource something that in all likelihood will fail to attract interest. Why would sponsors increase their input into both club and AFL if they are not getting support or value for money - i can see the conspiracy allready, much like canberra and the gold coast, the AFL will issue free kids' days, corporate memberships and free entry for anyone wearing white to give the illusion to potential sponsors that these people actually give a shite.

If the AFL is going to waist money on tyring to secure new markets, they should market the game harder overseas and really flog some sponsors product (remember, we are living in a globalised world).

FFS as a marketing ploy this idea stinks, as an economic decision this idea stinks, as game development decision this idea blows, and as a justification for fans this decision sucks balls.

 

[MRryan]

I am in two minds about the timing for Western Sydney... i think they need more grassroots footy there before stepping in - but what is alarming is the media barrage from the Daily Telegraph.


Boy does that paper have it in for the Australian game. Are we in Leeds England or Sydney Australia? Sydney is in Australia isn't it? or maybe i have that wrong.


Anyway all the Telegraph's vitriol and hatred to Australian Rules is pretty transparent. Just read some of their articles..."battleground" interviews with disgrunted league people who rip up this or that...and not one interview with an Australian Football supporter... very odd paper that one. Mein Kampf move over, Mein Telegraph is stepping up to the breach.

LOL classic post. It does sound like the orders are coming from the top re: Daily Telegraph constant trashing of Australian rules.
I dare say Rupert Murdoch asked the editors to play hardball with AFL's move into NSW. It's well known he plays some roll in the look and feel of his Aussie tabloid dailys.

 

[speedpeck23]

LOL classic post. It does sound like the orders are coming from the top re: Daily Telegraph constant trashing of Australian rules.
I dare say Rupert Murdoch asked the editors to play hardball with AFL's move into NSW. It's well known he plays some roll in the look and feel of his Aussie tabloid dailys.

Any publicity is good publicity for AFL in Western Sydney. The team doesn't even exist yet and its getting massive media coverage.

 

[InformedOpinion]

How is RL on its knees? how do you justify this statement?

Of the 16 rugby league clubs, only one or two are actually financially viable as a going concern.

Most are losing millions per year due to recently increased pokie taxes an smoking bans, so leagues clubs cannot pump millions in to save them every year. in 2-3 years the doomsday will arrive.

One of the strongest an biggest clubs leagues club - Parra - has a $28m debt. The leagues club is the lifeblood of the rugby league side/club. the game has changed for rugby league and there is nowhere to turn.

One or two in Qld are viable, but its not much good being the king of a crumbling empire.

Turn your attention to soccer as the threat we need to worry about in the future.

 

[andypie]

Look at the big bad NRL boss huffing and puffing:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25402601-19742,00.html

The NRL is in a state of disrepair, but I do hope the AFL knows what it's getting itself into in Western Sydney.

It's going to be a long, hard slog to grow the game out there.

How dare anyone compare football to war. I am outraged, I am disgusted.

 

[walhawk]

Isn't Blacktown's 10K capacity all seated?. I know only 1500 is undercover.
Surely they can put up a basic 5k grandstand on a wing.
Crowds of 12-15K would stack up well against half of the Sydney NRL clubs.
They will get that to games. Morth used to get that when they played home games in Sydney.
Also play 3/4 games @ ANZ (v Swans, Piies, Blues, Bombers, Hawks, Cats, etc) plus an away game V Swans.
Average crowds suddenly over 20K.
I don't see the problem.

 

[InformedOpinion]

Isn't Blacktown's 10K capacity all seated?. I know only 1500 is undercover.
Surely they can put up a basic 5k grandstand on a wing.
Crowds of 12-15K would stack up well against half of the Sydney NRL clubs.
They will get that to games. Morth used to get that when they played home games in Sydney.
Also play 3/4 games @ ANZ (v Swans, Piies, Blues, Bombers, Hawks, Cats, etc) plus an away game V Swans.
Average crowds suddenly over 20K.
I don't see the problem.

It's a little more complex than that.

You need good corporate facilities to attract decent sponsorship dollars and corporate hospitality clients.
You need good public transport.
You need decent scoreboards.
You need big car parks.
Modern coaches boxes.
2 modern change rooms with recovery areas.
Etc, etc.
That is why even Visy Park is not up to scratch right now.

You need people in the know - the AFL - running the game.

ANZ will do just fine.

Even with crowds at 20-30K for the first few years. NRL gets 15K @ ANZ.

 

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I am in two minds about the timing for Western Sydney... i think they need more grassroots footy there before stepping in - but what is alarming is the media barrage from the Daily Telegraph.


Boy does that paper have it in for the Australian game. Are we in Leeds England or Sydney Australia? Sydney is in Australia isn't it? or maybe i have that wrong.


Anyway all the Telegraph's vitriol and hatred to Australian Rules is pretty transparent. Just read some of their articles..."battleground" interviews with disgrunted league people who rip up this or that...and not one interview with an Australian Football supporter... very odd paper that one. Mein Kampf move over, Mein Telegraph is stepping up to the breach.

The Telegraph is owned by News Ltd, and News Ltd owns the NRL.

Also, the Telegraph is the paper of choice in those blue collar neighbourhoods, so it's understandable that it's league-centric.

 

[Rob]

Isn't Blacktown's 10K capacity all seated?. I know only 1500 is undercover.
Surely they can put up a basic 5k grandstand on a wing.
Crowds of 12-15K would stack up well against half of the Sydney NRL clubs.
They will get that to games. Morth used to get that when they played home games in Sydney.
Also play 3/4 games @ ANZ (v Swans, Piies, Blues, Bombers, Hawks, Cats, etc) plus an away game V Swans.
Average crowds suddenly over 20K.
I don't see the problem.

Agree completely. Spend a small amount of money on a 15k capacity venue in Blacktown, preferably 10k seated. Wouldn't cost much - a bit like York Park.
Play the blockbuster games at ANZ. Probably get a bit of financial support from the council as well.

Average crowds of 10k at Blacktown and 25k at ANZ would be a realistic target, and very competitive against rugby league clubs.

 

[shaolinmastah]

West sydney is Richmonds Nathan brown. Like vietnam war all over!

 

[Chook Norris]

Of the 16 rugby league clubs, only one or two are actually financially viable as a going concern.

Most are losing millions per year due to recently increased pokie taxes an smoking bans, so leagues clubs cannot pump millions in to save them every year. in 2-3 years the doomsday will arrive.

One of the strongest an biggest clubs leagues club - Parra - has a $28m debt. The leagues club is the lifeblood of the rugby league side/club. the game has changed for rugby league and there is nowhere to turn.

One or two in Qld are viable, but its not much good being the king of a crumbling empire.

Turn your attention to soccer as the threat we need to worry about in the future.

Firstly, do you have a source for any of this to back up your statement? I already know of the Parra $debacle though, but Fitzgerald their CEO says those debts will be paid off..
I think you'll find that apart from Parra and the Sharks, most clubs are still in an okay shape and will not fold in any time soon.. hell i've even read that some Melbourne AFL Clubs have been asking the AFL for financial assistance, does that mean they are in serious strife as well and face the risk of dying?
Lastly, there are not only 16 'rugby league' clubs.. there are 16 NRL Clubs.

anyway, i'm getting off the topic here..

 

[demoniac]

Western Sydney is the logical next step following the Gold Coast for the AFL and the more the ARU/NRL/NSWRL/News Ltd/Ch 9 (did I name them all or are there more letters in the alphabet soup that is League's Organisational Structure?) squeal the more obvious it is.

What do they fear?

 

[RUNVS]

FACT: RL has over 20,204 registered players in Western Sydney
so are you saying that AFL has more registered players in Western Sydney than RL?
FACT: AFL or "Aussie Rules" has 2929.

If that is fact then it only convinces me more that the AFL need a team in Western Sydney. AFL has 14.4% of the juniors Rugby League has i Western Sydney.

Now im just guessing here but there is probably 100 NRL players who grew up in Western Sydney and now play in the NRL. By law of statistics that if he AFL can get its act together with identifing talent in Western Sydney then that means of the 2929 juniors in Western Sydney 14 of them are good enough to be in the AFL. That is over half a team and with the Western Sydney team entering the competition junior numbers are only going to increase.

 

[JoondalupJ]

because of Demetriou's arrogance he still thimks he can pull itoff, he wiill forever be knowm as the tosser who killed the game................................scumbag extroidanaire

I guess the AFL has gone so far into the GC17 thing now, that they won't turn back.
Its still diluting the game beyond sense.
The pig headed attitude to West Sydney by Demitriou and Anderson and cronies is going to be absolute disaster there is no other way to put it.
Surely someone high up in the AFL or perhaps the club Presidents should be forcefully telling these knowalls they are really dangerously wrong with West Sydney.
This is such a stupid risk that they want to take, I'm amazed.
Why not take the risk in a FOOTBALL STATE and put number 18 in Tasmania.
Better still do not dilute the AFL at all, and leave out GC17, and get a Melbourne club into Tasmania. Tassie can and would support an AFL club in that state.
Why do these AFL heavies listen to NO ONE, and just go on bulldozing their own self serving interests and ideas thinking only of TV dollars. Fair dinkum AFL Presidents its time for the change before they wreck the sport altogether.
Once again I say "THERE IS ALREADY A SYDNEY TEAM AND A QUEENSLAND TEAM'!!!!!!!!


ideas through

 

[LordLucifer]

Rugby league is on its knees and we need to put the sword in to the low-lifes.

The NSW government never "withdrew" money as it was never promised or guaranteed.

Helllooooo... we have a perfectly good stadium to play at - ANZ Stadium!! Hardly a bad option, and will just manage to cater for the 80,000 Sydney derby crowd in R1 2012.

Soccer is the real threat we must confront NOW and have a presence in Western Sydney ASAP.

It is not Vietnam it is the WW1/2 Western Front - it will be a long hard battle but we cannot afford to run and hide when Australia's biggest population/region is at stake.

10 years ago there was virtually no AFL in western sydney. Now we have 30,000 Auskickers introducing their parents to the game. It is generational but we must fight and as John Kennedy said - don't think, DO!

This lad is right on the money !!

If the AFL can break into the NRL's heartland and have a successful team based in Western Sydney, it will spell the end of that code forever.

They had a really big opportunity to lay the boots in around 1996 when the Superleague war was on yet refused to do it. All of the fans were leaving their game and the players were split all over the place, should have gone for the juggler there and then.

However, there is no time like the present, this is the final frontier to be conquered and it must succeed and IMO, will within 6-7 years.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I am in two minds about the timing for Western Sydney... i think they need more grassroots footy there before stepping in - but what is alarming is the media barrage from the Daily Telegraph.


Boy does that paper have it in for the Australian game. Are we in Leeds England or Sydney Australia? Sydney is in Australia isn't it? or maybe i have that wrong.


Anyway all the Telegraph's vitriol and hatred to Australian Rules is pretty transparent. Just read some of their articles..."battleground" interviews with disgrunted league people who rip up this or that...and not one interview with an Australian Football supporter... very odd paper that one. Mein Kampf move over, Mein Telegraph is stepping up to the breach.

Do you know the west Sydney area. I don't, but I've been told that it is not really the type of areas that will warm to AUSSIE RULES. If that is the case how long do you expect it to take for AFL to develope a following before its time to move a club there.
I'd reckon 100 years or probably never.

 

[XFactor1979]

for those people who live in adelaide or perth

go live in sydney and find out how much they really care about afl over there!

melbournians know a thing or two about us folk up north of the border

we bite!

also sydney acts like the centre of australia and disregards what else the other states say about it, so they can say the nrl is a "national competition" even though it doesnt have clubs in perth or adelaide, because the population of sydney is bigger than both perth AND adelaide COMBINED DOUBLED!

you and who's army? wa and sa

 

[XFactor1979]

AFL has a bigger more popular more watched and more played game nationwide.

afl has that argument because its played in the kangaroo flats of perth and adelaide

whereas in nsw, "the end of the universe" stops in the blue mountains in katoomba, because in all honesty, theres not all that much out there when you go past that point. you can go to brissy or melbourne, but dont bother going to any further west - its just a whole lot of nothing when you get out there

 

[XFactor1979]

also get this

rugby league is played in england, its also played in new zealand

and it has a world cup

afl is only played in melbourne, and in the kangaroo flats of perth and adelaide. and it will eventually be recognised as an international sports code played across the globe in many countries...

by the year 2417

^ hey, at least thats a year! i tried didnt i?

 

[Rob]

also sydney acts like the centre of australia and disregards what else the other states say about it, so they can say the nrl is a "national competition" even though it doesnt have clubs in perth or adelaide, because the population of sydney is bigger than both perth AND adelaide COMBINED DOUBLED!

No it's not. It might be bigger, but nowhere near double.

Sydney is 4.4m, Perth + Adelaide is 2.8m (1.6 + 1.2).